Too many people writing the saints off :P

[lefty]

Put things into perspective.

1. Loss to Geelong (Should of won - Poor decision by Blake)
2. Draw to Richmond (Should of won - Milne two set shots)
3. Loss to Essendon (We ALWAYS seem to lose to Essendon - did in 09, 10)
4. Bye
5. Won against Lions (Not convincing though)
6. Lost to Adelaide (Only real game we lost)
7. Lost to Carlton (Could of won - unlucky)

The only real loses I see, are against Adelaide and Essendon, and I'm going to ignore Essendon as they have the wood over us every year.

Everyone's written us off far too early, you simply just need to finish in the top 8, and anything can happen

Things we need to improve on.

A. Need to win the center clearances, I'm not sure why we don't, but its a big issue as with the flood it puts great pressure on a team's defense. It seems that we are always under pressure. I haven't seen anyone able to run from the middle and hit up a target.

B. Skills - Monty for example should of kicked those goals. Blokes kicking out on the flood from set marks? Simple dropped marks, Gwilt?

C. Roo - Needs to get his set shots/kicking for goal sorted, I just can't continue to watch/hope/pray he's fixed in week in week out. Just got back to your old days. Gilbert is another one who needs to address kicking for goal.

D. Forwards all running towards the player with the ball, yet leave their opponent out, who ends up with the handball out and off they go. Its really annoying that they are all getting sucked into the ball. Just one player tackle, the other stay out, obviously the opposition is going to try handball it to his teammate.

E. Roo - Another thing is he's always leading under the ball, seems to go for marks where the ball is on top of his head, not out in front. I'm not sure if its him doing that by leading too early, or our players simply just poping it up hoping for a miracle, even when he's double teamed?


In terms of tonights worst players, I thought Raph was ordinary. Dropping that simple chest mark and then Waite winning the ball summed up Raph. Think Ross should of played Peake.

The second one was McQualter, first quarter dropped a simple over head mark in the forward line. There was another clanger, but I can't remember what it was. Oh, the holding the ball, I have no idea why he didn't just give the first option handball.

Positives, I thought Kosi was alright, and in general we were better, seemed like we played on as much as we could from the back line.

[Teflon]

Top 8 wont win a flag Im sorry.

[The Fireman]

Im part of the too many.

[python]

Thing is, good teams find a way to win the close games, no matter whether they're playing the worst footy of the year or the best. No matter what the odds, you can always tell who the good teams are based on how they respond when they're against it. Being unlucky really doesn't matter because the teams that want to win the most find a way.

Geelong played awful for the best part of three quarters in round 1, yet won. Last year and 2009, we were the ones winning those games, this year unfortunately, it's just not happening for us.

[lefty]

Top 8 wont win a flag Im sorry.

Not necessarily, it just makes it harder, but thats not the point I'm trying to make. Its the fact that we're not as bad as everyone is making us out to be.

You need to look at the overall picture, not just the Win/Loss ratio, and what we need to do to be better.

[plugger66]

Top 8 wont win a flag Im sorry.

Not necessarily, it just makes it harder, but thats not the point I'm trying to make. Its the fact that we're not as bad as everyone is making us out to be.

You need to look at the overall picture, not just the Win/Loss ratio, and what we need to do to be better.

We will not make the finals. Forget the 8 and anyway outside top 4 cant win it.

[SirDog]

Put things into perspective.
1. Loss to Geelong (Should of won - Poor decision by Blake)
2. Draw to Richmond (Should of won - Milne two set shots)
3. Loss to Essendon (We ALWAYS seem to lose to Essendon - did in 09, 10)
4. Bye
5. Won against Lions (Not convincing though)
6. Lost to Adelaide (Only real game we lost)
7. Lost to Carlton (Could of won - unlucky)

The only real loses I see, are against Adelaide and Essendon, and I'm going to ignore Essendon as they have the wood over us every year.

Everyone's written us off far too early, you simply just need to finish in the top 8, and anything can happen

No disrespect to your optimism but firstly there are too many "should of's" and "could of's" and I am unable to accept such mediocrity (like accepting losses to Essendon or other loses) to the extent you seem to.

I cannot reconcile your definition of how you quantify the two "real loses" because the ladder shows otherwise. Six matches: one win - four loses - one draw. That is the cold hard reality, that is the truth. This year we have beaten one team in the Brisbane Lions; who we were behind at three-quarter time, have not won a game this year, and were beaten by Gold Coast this round. And as you correctly coin it, "not convincing".

And in relation to your second point of making the Top 8 and "anything can happen", we have played in the last two grand finals (three for the purests) and "anything" did happen...we lost.

Again, although I admire your optimism one should never attempt to polish a turd.

[Furphy]

Can't see us winning any more than eight games this year. We haven't played Collingwood or Hawthorn yet.

[jonesy]

There's not a huge difference in the way we are going now,and the way we went for most parts last year. Last year we just scraped over the line in most of the games. This years games have been similar,except the toss of the coin results have gone the other way. No Lenny,and BJ and Roo playing poorly will do that.
It's a fine line from being top 4,and missing the 8.

We won't make the 8

[3rd generation saint]

Fact, we lost the games, you don't get any points for almost winning.
I'd rather miss the eight all together than just make up the numbers this year.
Get as much game time into Sipposs, Cripps and Ledger so they are better for next season.

[thejiggingsaint]

In view of the results/performances thus far, I would think that a top eight finish is an aim for the club, but not a strong possibility. We really should be looking to our younger players cementing their spots in the first 22, and by its nature that process will have its share of grief at times. We need to bite the bullet and make the hard calls NOW. Those first team veterans like Blake and Baker should be told that they are going to be given the role of guiding the younger blokes on and that at some stage in the season they will be given the option of retiring with a full-on send off by the supporters at Etihad, the same goes for Michael Gardiner who has been magnificent in turning his career around and in the process given us great ruck service on the way to two Grand Finals. Gardi should be retained as a ruck coach with Kingy, with the view of creating something we have not had in years: a strong and powerful 2/3 man ruck division. I'm happy that the passion is back (it should NEVER have gone IMHO ) but skills are down, players are needing to be replaced and the season needs to be seen now as one of transition rather than one of harbouring false hopes of another flag tilt. Time to confront the truth and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

GO SAINTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr Spaceman]

We need to bite the bullet and make the hard calls NOW.  Those first team veterans like Blake and Baker should be told that they are going to be given the role of guiding the younger blokes on and that at some stage in the season they will be given the option of retiring with a full-on send off by the supporters at Etihad...

As I posted elsewhere jigster:

There is always an emotional issue involved when considering easing long term servants, and fan favorites, out of the senior team. This is always worse when it looks like a flag might finally come our way and these great blokes might miss out (eg Max)

With a flag in 2011 looking less and less likely, it may make it easier to say goodbye to the likes of Blake and Baker and usher in the new era.

[westy]

You are right Doctor. A much as I love Bakes and Blake, I think they are obviously past it.

[thejiggingsaint]

+1 Doc! I still remember when we gave Burkie his send-off in 2003, and the excitement of seeing our younger blokes stepping up to pick up the baton. It MAY be emotive, but a properly conducted retirement of loved players can provide a highspot in an otherwise ordinary season, and give us a boost to rebuilding momentum.

[dragit]

There's not a huge difference in the way we are going now,and the way we went for most parts last year. Last year we just scraped over the line in most of the games. This years games have been similar,except the toss of the coin results have gone the other way. No Lenny,and BJ and Roo playing poorly will do that.
It's a fine line from being top 4,and missing the 8.

We won't make the 8

I agree, we have been unlucky this year, whereas last year we were lucky in the close ones…
We are still a good side, out of form and confidence.
I still think we could make the 8, but really we may be better off missing out. One thing nearly everyone agrees on is that we aren't a flag contender this year…
It looks as though Ross is trying to change the game plan, I'm sure he instructing them to play on more, be more attacking. Remember his first year as coach, it took the players a few months to adjust to a new game style - we missed the finals, it may take them awhile again.
Despite all the garbage dribbled on here, he is a very smart coach who gets the very best out of the list, getting any side to a grand final
which has 9 players who don't like to kick is a genius.
Surely this will be the last season for Baker & Blake, if we are going to miss the finals they should not keep playing.
maybe a few more too - McQualter, Clarke, Peake, some tough decisions will need to be made for the good of the club.

We could easily be 5 & 1 this year, but probably no closer to a flag.

If a few young players come on this year, next year could be great…

[Thinline]

Agree Dragit.

I'm warming to the idea of a year under the radar made up of little victories. A 20 touch game to Cripps. A four goal haul to Sipposs. A 10 tackle game to Smith. A creative back half sweeper display from Lynch. Dal standing up in Hayes absence. Armo going from B to A. Etc etc...

[dragit]

I was shattered last night…
But really I reckon there was more to be gained from losing with Steven, Cripps, Sippos, Armitage, in the side than winning with Gamble, Peake, Eddy and Polo in…

[Johnny Member]

We will not make the finals. Forget the 8 and anyway outside top 4 cant win it.

I reckon you can win it outside the top 4.

The only reason teams very rarely do, is because they aren't good enough - which is also usually the reason they didn't make the top 4 in the first place!