Kosi!

[Bernard Shakey]

Kosi never has been and never will be a viable ruckman. Can't take a grab and kick a couple of goals now (except at VFL level), I'd say he's finished. I said that two years ago and he's done nothing to change my mind since. We should have traded him at the end of '08, when we could have gotten something for him. No-one will trade for him now.

[SainterK]

Kosi never has been and never will be a viable ruckman. Can't take a grab and kick a couple of goals now (except at VFL level), I'd say he's finished. I said that two years ago and he's done nothing to change my mind since. We should have traded him at the end of '08, when we could have gotten something for him. No-one will trade for him now.

Not even in the direction the game is taking?

Our ruck stocks are a worry then.

That he can still manage 7 hitouts, in a match when he is clearly underdone, and only in there in bursts.

Yet still managed to reach half that of Ben. who only managed only 14.

[Sobraz]

They wouldn't play him like we play him.

Nobody would, they'd have him in the ruck pushing forward.

Probably because most other teams have someone who can play FF.

Not us though, nobody for years now, doesn't any kid want it enough?

Hoping Johnson makes an excellent debut, and Kosi returns to ruck.

Agree with this... Would love to see Kos get an extended run as a follower in the ruck (injury free obviosuly), and Johnson to play the Chris Dawes like power FF we desperately need...

[Eastern]

Geezus !!

Thank god John Howard tightened up the gun laws otherwise some of you lot would have Kosi put down !!

[Thinline]

Geezus !!

Thank god John Howard tightened up the gun laws otherwise some of you lot would have Kosi put down !!

Not sure there's really a great deal of animosity towards the big guy so much as an ongoing frustration that he simply can't string games of footy together.

And meanwhile the clock ticks onwards...

[perfectionist]

Without any actual direct evidence at all, but based on my observations, he really has never been the same since he copped that whack from Daniel Giansiracusa. The game is played at such a high level, that the difference between those who make it and those who don't, is in a few percentage points of a number of factors e.g. timing, judgement, etc. His brain got a fair old rattle in that collision, and whilst everyday activities might not be curtailed, playing AFL at the elite level is a different matter. Whatever the reason, the player of rounds 14 to 17 in 2005, was never the same after round 6 in 2006, although to be fair, his 2009 was pretty good. He still remains one of the most skillful players in the team by hand and foot (granted no great claim to fame these days), but his marking judgment is nothing like it was once and hasn't been "right" for some time. And if he doesn't grab it, the ball will go down the other end pretty quickly.

[To the top]

I agree his skills by hand and foot are excellent.

We saw that in Brisbane in the last quarter last week.

In terms of marking, he is far too often the subject of a block, which he was against Brisbane.

He can not get to the contest because there is someone impeding him.

So, what is the reason this occurs?

We also note the double/triple teaming of the captain.

So how come our 2 principal forwards so often have to contend with 2 or more opponents?

Is it our usage of the ball - and that usage being too slow?

Look at West Coast last night and compare their usage to ours.

Or is it that we have no other viable overhead options in attack?

Again look at West Coast last night and the overhead marking options they have.

[Longwayfromhome]

Can't believe some are still trying to justify Kosi getting a game.
His marking is inconsistent and has been for some time. By all means have him in the side to crash the packs and provide a target, but if that's all he is going to do then we are in trouble.
He is far too easily pushed off the contest.
He cannot chase.
He cannot ruck.
His best football back in 2005 was that of a follower. That was 6 years and many injuries ago.
Yes he kicked fifty goals in 2009. Most of these were in the first half of the year. Come the business end of the season and he was sadly missing.
Am I being too hard. Maybe.
We have to start looking elsewhere for a forward target (Johnson/Archer/Gilbert) and also a viable ruckman (play Stanley/Archer).
Put simply, Kosi is not the answer.

[Bernard Shakey]

I agree his skills by hand and foot are excellent.

We saw that in Brisbane in the last quarter last week.

In terms of marking, he is far too often the subject of a block, which he was against Brisbane.

He can not get to the contest because there is someone impeding him.

For goodness sake he didn't have one kick last week. What game were you watching, where you saw these excellent hand and foot skills?

Nobody bothers blocking Kosi these days, he drops marks all by himself and he gets knocked over by a puff of wind. If someone farted he'd probably faint.

[Bernard Shakey]

Kosi never has been and never will be a viable ruckman. Can't take a grab and kick a couple of goals now (except at VFL level), I'd say he's finished. I said that two years ago and he's done nothing to change my mind since. We should have traded him at the end of '08, when we could have gotten something for him. No-one will trade for him now.

Not even in the direction the game is taking?

Our ruck stocks are a worry then.

That he can still manage 7 hitouts, in a match when he is clearly underdone, and only in there in bursts.

Yet still managed to reach half that of Ben. who only managed only 14.

Our ruck stocks are non existent and without Lenny our ability to win stoppages is also non existent.

[PJ]

So we have at least 3/4's of the season still to go and no ruck stocks - who do you go with and for what reason?

1/ Ben & Kosi - developing and back up mobile ruck - a future prospect but not there yet

2/ Gardi & Ben - Old and new, just fill in with Kosi until the big show comes good, a bet in both camps

3/ Gardi & Kosi - as prefered options with Ben filling in, this seems to be a for the here a now option with some future prospects

4/ or where does Rhys Stanley fit into this equation?

[dcstkfc]

In the wake of the Replay, I think Ross came to the conclusion that Kosi is only a fringe player who could have a role as a forward/ruck but it no longer an automatic selection.

What makes you think that dcstkfc?

I disagree.

Some on here may not rate his worth to the side, but I still think Ross does.

Rushed him back way too early because of it.

You might be right, maybe it was more of my own thoughts. Although that he played for Sandringham at all meant that he wasn't considered absolutely critical like Roo who would've gone straight back to AFL football once recovered.

[sRaf]

Hopefully not long. His preseason has been interrupted enough because of his knee (knee right?) so his match fitness is already lacking. I still think he can be a contributor in our forward line and really take off the pressure from Roo.

Anyone else think he's lost a bit of weight? Looked leaner and certainly less built from previous years. Maybe it's just me..

[Johnny Member]

Just an annoyance of mine that I've noticed re Kosi...

When he's chasing an opponent with the ball in our F50, he gives up the chase too easily.
When the shepherder comes at him (which always happens), he seems to forget about chasing the bloke with the ball, and braces himself for the contact instead of focussing on pressuring on the guy with the ball.

The contact comes, and it's always minimal - but it ends his chase. I doubt it's actually the case, but looks as though he's relieved that a bloke ran at him to shepherd so he could give up the chase.

I know you need to be aware of what's around you, but you can do both. You should know when the shepherd is coming at you, and do your best to ensure you get past it and continue chasing.
If you decide to take the contact of the shepherd (which Kosi does every time), at least run at them and try to hurt them legally.
But he doesn't, he just seems to brace for it and shoulder up to the bloke, but he's always the one who's put off balance by the contact.


It's one of the reasons the ball comes out of our F50 so easily.

[Leo.J]

I played for a whole season with an ankle injury.

IMO it effects 2 key parts of your game.

Most importantly it reduces your ability to keep your feet.

And as a result of that you lose alot of traction and strength in one on one contests.

These imo appear to be factors that are hindering Kosi.

I do think though that the Gia bump, and his suspension last year for a bump both play on his mind when he is being bumped and bumping.

I believe he is going at about 60% atm.

If he can get to almost full fitness imo he'll be important as a ruck/forward for us... whether he can get there is probably the important question.

Last year Rooey's hammy not only put Rooey out it meant that Kosi put his career on the line by playing injured for most of the season.

If Rooey was fit last year I doubt Kosi would have been risked as he was.

He probably would have had surgery like Barry Hall has had this year.

While critisism for Kosi is warranted as his form has been poor, he deserves some credit for the sacrifices he's made for the club.

IMO thats why he's held in such high regard by those in the inner sactum.

[BigMart]

Kos needs an extended run in the seconds......3 or 4 weeks....

Need to average 15-20 posessions, 2 goals, 15 hit outs and play 80-90 minutes of game time....60 as a ruckman...

Young stanley should be the fwd/ ruckman....

I would give young archer a crack whilst kosi is getting fit....he has had an injury free run, is fit and will throw his weight around....he will get beaten, but will provide a contest.....

Kosi aint match fit, let alone ruck fit...

[To the top]

Raining heavily at Norwood.

To promote Stanley and Archer as ruck options is to concede the ruck contests.

Granted, Stanley is 200cm but he is not an AFL ruckman. We have seen how easliy he is taken out of ruck contests and particularly around the boundary.

Archer is off the Rookie List and is 193cm.

Koschitzke is not a ruckman per se - he is forced to ruck because he is 197cm and we have no other option post the retirement of King and with the injury to Gardiner. He is listed at 93kg so is giving away a couple of stone to other ruckmen - and Stanley is giving away more at 89kg.

The fact that Koschitzke is giving away height and weight in the ruck contests means the best he achieves is to compete - and then to move around the ground. His decisive couple of handballs which opened the game against Brisbane were on a wing, right in front of us.

To say he cops a shepherd labours the point, because all chasing players cop a shepherd which impacts on the pressure they can apply. To criticise this is pedantic in the extreme.

As said, he played a large chunk of last season with a severe ankle injury - confirmed by surgery meaning no pre-season for 2011.

And one aside, in 2009 we had King and Gardiner available to ruck, supported by McEvoy - so whilst he took some big marks in tight situations in defence he was not called on to ruck.

Simply, we need him fit.

We do not have another 197cm utility player.

I only ever watch St Kilda play so the only appreciation I and those I attend the footy with get of other sides is when they play St Kilda.

Over the last few days I have watched the first half of the WCE v Melbourne game and I watched the first quarter of the Carlton v Sydney game then 5 minutes 5 minutes from the end.

The frenetic contest was noticable.

There are sides playing absolutely frenetic football.

The pressure is absolute.

This results in a side having players back in desperation, then a hacked clearing kick under pressure finding the wall and coming straight back in again - or going out on the full.

I mention this because it underscores that we must transition from the likes of Blake, Baker, Dempster, Milne, McQualter and Dawson who do not bring that frenetic energy and ability to provide the ultimate contest - and then use the ball dangerously by running, supporting and disposing.

The days of getting by by guarding a space are gone.

You have to be a frenetic contester and user.

And whilst a 197cm player also has to put pressure on, he is more the target not the absolutely frenetic harrasser.

Still pouring!

I believe AFC will include Maric reasoning that the obsolute dominance of the ruck contests will push the ball their way from the frequent stoppages.

[SainterK]

Last year Rooey's hammy not only put Rooey out it meant that Kosi put his career on the line by playing injured for most of the season.

If Rooey was fit last year I doubt Kosi would have been risked as he was.

He probably would have had surgery like Barry Hall has had this year.

While critisism for Kosi is warranted as his form has been poor, he deserves some credit for the sacrifices he's made for the club.

IMO thats why he's held in such high regard by those in the inner sactum.

Very well said Leo

[To the top]

I rest my case.

Will have a look at this tomorrow night to see if any of Winmar, Simpkin, Lynch, Stanley and Sippos perform.

Walsh is still learning - hence on the Rookie List.

Koschitzke, Ray and Clarke have to return next week - so there are 3 automatic changes.

Dawson will get a holiday - so Johnson to full back.

I would like to see Cahill kicking goals - so hopefully he will be back soon.

IF we look to play Riewoldt around the ground - and I would - we need a 192cm plus key attacking player - and Cahill is the only option on our list.

The other credible story around the traps is that Malthouse will coach Carlton next year unless he continues as Coach where he is now - and the story is that the commitment is to Buckley come hell or high water.

They have some super pubs over here - and they were all dives once upon a time!

Drowning the sorrows beckons!!

[Enrico_Misso]

If Kosi is the answer then it is the wrong question.

[SainterK]

Just put Kosi in the ruck next week, Ben to FF.

Can't be any worse off surely?

Least we can say we tried.

[SainterK]

Thanks Ross.

Well he at least started there, played his fair share in there, and was significant.

I'd persist with Ben/Kosi for sure.

[Dr Spaceman]

Thanks Ross.

Well he at least started there, played his fair share in there, and was significant.

I'd persist with Ben/Kosi for sure.

+1

[Sobraz]

Thanks Ross.

Well he at least started there, played his fair share in there, and was significant.

I'd persist with Ben/Kosi for sure.

Terrific last nighht... Good games from both the big guys IMO... Hopefully Kosi is over the injury, and gets an extended run in the ruck/forward role he played last night...

Looks so much more natural in this position...

[ralphsmith]

Kosi...looked like a different player last night.

Couldn't quite believe what i saw. Hopefully the rocket under his ass has finally been lit.