We WILL play finals

[BackFromUSA]

It is only 3 games down, 19 to go.

What is true is that we have had a shocking start.

The reasons are clear:

* Thrashed in centre clearances moving the ball quickly into the back 50
* Opposition long balls (clearances and rebounds) exposing our back 6
* Long periods of time spent in the back 50 due to opposition press
* Due to opposition pressure too many critical errors and turnovers
* Balls into our forward 50 are slow and predicted and rebound out
* No time spent in our forward 50 to allow us to put in place our press

Our structure has been pulled apart by the opposition.

We have been hunted and caught.

It was and is time for a change.

We need to hunt again.

Lyon has without doubt been trying to find and then coach a change.

What he has tried to date has not worked.

Perhaps it is because he is without his #1 ruck/forward combo - Kossie / Gardiner.

Perhaps it is because that the keys to our forward line - Kossie (the big strong long target) and Schneider (the clever goal assist / goal sneak) have not been a real part of this season start.

Perhaps it is because the players sense the Coach is unsure of the way forward - is Gilbert a back or forward ... or now a midfielder?

However it is not the players or even system that is the real problem.

There are some small and large tweaks required. These can be fixed.

Attitude and mental approach is 80% of the problem. This can be fixed.

This starts with our coach. he has to lead the way internally and externally. No more second guessing himself in public or in private.

He is paid to lead our club. I want to see leadership.

Dropping Baker and Blake made me sick. Their value on the field of battle is enormous and to see players like Peake, Clarke, Dempster and even Farren Ray who dont impose themselves on the opposition getting games in front of these warriors was a poor message to the whole group.

Our best back 6 includes warriors like Blake (at CHB) and Baker (on a dangerous small forward) with Gwilt and Fisher as our attacking defenders and Dawson as Full back. The sixth spot should be for another small or mid defender and it is here that we have failed to recruit successfully or grow our own. On our list Polo and McQualter are our best bets and to build a finals team and premiership tilt, one of these needs to be placed in the back 6 and settle the unit down for the whole year. Mini is my first pick because he currently understands our players and set up better but Polo may compete hard for this role once he gets into a groove.

With injuries a reality of footy - I would rather see Simpkin and Lynch given the job of covering for any injured tall players in our back 6 rather than have Gilbert, Clarke, Dempster back there ... simply because Simpkin and Lynch can use the ball under pressure as well as defend.

Our rucks are a real problem. Obviously Gardiner returning would solve this but until Kossie and McEvoy should be the pair swapping between ruck and full forward.

Our forward structure has been a problem. Personnel (as outlined before) and positioning have been terrible to date. A total re-think is required.

2 players need to stay inside our forward 50 - the resting ruckman and Milne. This allows us the fast break - long kick option.

3 players need to play the lead up forward into midfield and back option. I was hoping that Gamble could be a part of that but after 3 rounds I think the best combination will be Riewoldt Schneider and Stanley. If Lenny was not injured I would have had Gilbert instead of Stanley but I feel we now need Gilbert as a utlity that can play mid, back or forward.

Our midfield is next for a re-build. Firstly Clint Jones has to return to being a tagger on the best inside midfielder. Why he wasn't on Watson and instead stood Stanton was a huge reaon for our loss last week. The idea of having Goddard go head to head with Watson was always a break even at best and as it happened it was a massive win for the Bombers.

So Jones has to get a Watson, Judd, Swan etc each week. No question. He has to stop the opposition best inside / clearance midfielder. He is a must-have inside the centre square at the centre bounces.

The rest of the starting 4 then needs to be clearance players - the heat in that kitchen has gone up 5 notches since 2009 and the way the game is played (the forward 50 press) means that you want it in your 50 NOT in your back 50. Clearances are even more crucial than ever before.

Fo this reason, the little terrior David Armitage is a must have. No-one goes harder and with constant coaching he will get to better spots and win clear ball with momentum.

With 6 backs and 5 forwards, there is room a ruckman plus six midfielders on the ground.

Armitage, Jones, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna, Gram are the starting 6.

Gilbert (as a utility used either back, forward or even as an inside ball winning midfield or tagger) Steven, Smith are the ideal interchange players giving the midfield short rests and coming on as burst players.

Winmar, Cripps, Ledger and Crocker need games BUT only as they are deserving through form at Sandringham and should be rotated like the Pies did with their young talent for the first few years as they built AFL bodies. For now they are best as the SUBSTITUTE where they can enter the game (unless there is an early injury) once the collision heat is out of the contest whichh seesm to be near the end of the third quarter now.

Archer, Johnson, Simpkin and Lynch are back ups for our key position players.

Polo, Geary, Gamble, Clarke, Dempster, Ray, Peake are back ups for our backs and midfield.

Heyne is yet to show enough IMO to show he has AFL touch and compusure.

Walsh and Eddy are capable rookies that could get elevated and play a role if needed.

So my team would be:

McQualter Dawson Baker
Fisher Blake Gwilt
Gram Armitage Montagna
Dal Santo (playing midfield)
Stanley Riewoldt Schneider
Kossie Milne

McEvoy
Goddard
Jones

Int: Gilbert, Smith, Steven
Sub from: Cripps / Winmar / Ledger / Crocker

Key tactics:

Handballing through the press is suicide!

Long kicks towards the 50m arc boundry is where we MUST head and quickly. Riewoldt and Stanley to take position 60m from the defensive goal just 10m from the boundary line. Schneider should be paired with Stanley (starting 10m further inboard) and Dal Santo with Riewoldt with Dal again standing 10m further inboard - the corridor to remain free.

Our defense have to know that when they kick down either line that there is a contest 50 to 60 metres out near the boundaryline to either force a ball up, throw in, pressure the rebound OR HOPEFULLY win the contest and use some hard runners through the corridor (rather than the stop / prop /kick and hope down the line we are doing) that have a stay at home tall and short target inside our forward 50 ready for the quick break.

This structure means we also have to re-set our defensive 50 zones and the forward press.

Our defensive zone should be re-set to cope with deep long kicks to the hot spot so all 6 midfielders need to push back into zone positions 10 metres from this hot spot contest - covering all angles in front / behind and the side and allows them to make a contest (aerial or ground) at the hotspot or any lateral forward leads into the pockets. Once the ball has been regained, all six midfielders and our rebound defenders need to run to support the contest at the 50-60 metres boundry line and make position for quick use through the corridor.

Our forward press now is structured as:

The resting ruckman as the key forward and Milne as the deep line and they must create an early contest but it is Schneider, Riewoldt and Stanley that have to press up hard to fill the gaps and chase and pressure the opposition. The next line is the ruckman (placed at 65 out for the long central corridor kick) and the six midfielders spread across as a defensive line at the 50 - 60m arc ready to push forward or back. Our half backs and backs (other than those covering stay at home forwards) set up a line at the midfield.

Personnel and tactics are just one element.

The most important thing that will turn our season around is attitude. Our coach and players must TRUST each other and COMMIT to the work and CONTEST everything. 100% effort 100% of the time with 100% belief.

IMO if we re-set like this we will play finals footy and we may even give the 2011 Premiership a shake.

[Teflon]

Some good thoughts there and I dont mind your side.

Im not as convinced that Blake/Baker are a must for the side to be honest but I agree some softer options are getting games ahead of them...its true you at least know what you get from Baker/Blake. Would like to see Lynch/Walsh get a go here.....I think they can offer as much and use the ball better and are the future....

IF Jones cant tag hes out of the side for mine. Mqualter to a backline is his ONLY hope for mine.

Defensive pressure in the fwd 50 of your side worries me a tad.....Milne as a tackler is a free kick nightmare....

And yep, rucks a problem I agree.

[mad saint guy]

Agree with most of that, but we can only have one of Baker, Jones, McQualter and Dempster in the team IMO. There isn't much room in the modern game for players who only nullify an opponent and give nothing the other way. Bakes gets the spot as he is the only one with a physical presence and has the safest skills.

I'm not so sure that coaching moves (tactically) will be what decides where this season goes. It will be up to the mental strength of senior players. Gilbert, Gwilt, BJ, Raph, Gram, Ray etc are all capable players who are nowhere near their best. It is good that some of the plodders have been replaced by kids and that will help, but the biggest improvement would be from proven players regaining their best form.

If we have this team fit and firing from July onwards then we could be a chance

B: Baker, Dawson, Gwilt
HB: Clarke, Blake, Fisher
C: Gram, Armitage, Goddard
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Stanley
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Steven

Foll: Gardiner, Montagna, Dal Santo
Int: Gilbert, Ray, Smith
Sub: Ledger

EMG: McEvoy, Lynch, Polo

Apologies to McEvoy; doing an honourable job right now but still a couple of years away from being a top ten ruckman.

[Moccha]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

These things can only be fixed by the right recruitment. I think the new players will be blooded slowly as the older ones progressively retire or are delisted. You can all guess who they might be. This might take 3 years minimum for a fresh new challenge.

[kosifantutti23]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

[bobmurray]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

And we weren't good enough then and we certainly aren't good enough now.

The time for change is near or here.

[kosifantutti23]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

And we weren't good enough then and we certainly aren't good enough now.

The time for change is near or here.

Yes we were a long way from a flag the last two years. Change everything.

[Moccha]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

And we weren't good enough then and we certainly aren't good enough now.

The time for change is near or here.

Yes we were a long way from a flag the last two years. Change everything.

Forget about 2009 and 2010, the problems exist now. The issues above were always there except they've were covered by the game plan that everyone else now adopts. While Gardiner and Kosi are out we are stuffed in the ruck and the skills and speed have never existed.

[Enrico_Misso]

We made a calculated decision to give the players a bit of a break over he summer to allow them to recover mentally.

So we started training two weeks after Collingwood.
And six or seven weeks after clubs that didn't make the finals.
Clubs like Richmond and Essendon.

So part of the problem is fitness.
Part of the problem is mental.

Overcome those two and we are back in the hunt.

[SainterK]

We made a calculated decision to give the players a bit of a break over he summer to allow them to recover mentally.

So we started training two weeks after Collingwood.
And six or seven weeks after clubs that didn't make the finals.
Clubs like Richmond and Essendon.

So part of the problem is fitness.
Part of the problem is mental.

Overcome those two and we are back in the hunt.

This.

So hard to know what the right thing to do is.

People can say well the reigning premiers came back early so we should of as well, but they weren't on the back of another GF campaign in 2009, and we aren't even sure if they will sustain this year (especially with the sub and more TOG)

[Dr Spaceman]

We made a calculated decision to give the players a bit of a break over he summer to allow them to recover mentally.

So we started training two weeks after Collingwood.
And six or seven weeks after clubs that didn't make the finals.
Clubs like Richmond and Essendon.

So part of the problem is fitness.
Part of the problem is mental.

Overcome those two and we are back in the hunt.

This.

So hard to know what the right thing to do is.

People can say well the reigning premiers came back early so we should of as well, but they weren't on the back of another GF campaign in 2009, and we aren't even sure if they will sustain this year (especially with the sub and more TOG)

Maybe they"ll have some dietary assistance

[bobmurray]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

And we weren't good enough then and we certainly aren't good enough now.

The time for change is near or here.

Yes we were a long way from a flag the last two years. Change everything.

I was at the ground for the those grand finals and if i remember correctly..

WE DIDN'T WIN...

we aren't good enough...we tried those players and were found wanting..

CHANGE IS required...YOU and ROSS can dream and the rest of us will wait for reality to take over

[matrix]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

These things can only be fixed by the right recruitment. I think the new players will be blooded slowly as the older ones progressively retire or are delisted. You can all guess who they might be. This might take 3 years minimum for a fresh new challenge.

4. no len dog

[overitalready]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary...

At last some common sense prevails.
Over the last few years, Gilbert could take on opponents and clear the ball. Now, his left side gets covered straight-up and he seems to get trapped far too easily.
Clint Jones ? umm, lets move on...
- Slow ? you betcha. Ross's game plan had the game shut down, where our lack of speed was camouflaged. This has now come undone and teams like the Bombers can and will exploit the lack of leg speed.
- Rucks- Gardy has done a great job but he is not a young man, and Lenny and others really worked well with him. Blake has only ever been a stop-gap in the ruck; a fully fit Kosi needs some hard bodies and fast runners to clear the ball and we have neither of those. We wish that Kosi was immortal but he does miss games through injury. Don't blame the conditioning coaches, it's the cost of bash-and-crash. These players are not characters in Call of Duty on X-Box, who can regenerate and be as good as new. McEvoy is still young, and apparently ruckmen take years to hone their craft.

[Bernard Shakey]

We made a calculated decision to give the players a bit of a break over he summer to allow them to recover mentally.

So we started training two weeks after Collingwood.
And six or seven weeks after clubs that didn't make the finals.
Clubs like Richmond and Essendon.

So part of the problem is fitness.
Part of the problem is mental.

Overcome those two and we are back in the hunt.

This.

So hard to know what the right thing to do is.

People can say well the reigning premiers came back early so we should of as well, but they weren't on the back of another GF campaign in 2009, and we aren't even sure if they will sustain this year (especially with the sub and more TOG)

Are you talking about Collingwood? Pretty sure we know how they'll go this year.

[SainterK]

We made a calculated decision to give the players a bit of a break over he summer to allow them to recover mentally.

So we started training two weeks after Collingwood.
And six or seven weeks after clubs that didn't make the finals.
Clubs like Richmond and Essendon.

So part of the problem is fitness.
Part of the problem is mental.

Overcome those two and we are back in the hunt.

This.

So hard to know what the right thing to do is.

People can say well the reigning premiers came back early so we should of as well, but they weren't on the back of another GF campaign in 2009, and we aren't even sure if they will sustain this year (especially with the sub and more TOG)

Are you talking about Collingwood? Pretty sure we know how they'll go this year.

I know how they will go football ability and list wise, I don't know how they will go fitness wise.

[St. Luke]

I have no doubt we'll play finals, and do well.

[spert]

RL has already tried to address one of our 09 problems- leg speed, by recruiting a player with baggage in Lovett- Fail. Peake was another attempt at a running player recruit- a fringe player -Fail. RL has admitted the forward line needs work in 2010, and seems to be just circulating different players around in the forward line as an attempted fix. RL is responsible for motivating the team, and if your forwards barely lay a tackle in a game, then there's a big problem in communication with the players. Having said that, I hope we turn it around big-time next week.

[desertsaint]

confidence and desire (and lenny) are what,s missing most this year. get them back and we're a top four team, but agree with all of your stated defencies and we will not push for a flag unless a few players step up a level and ross finds an attacking game plan that doesn't come at the cost of our defensive abilities.

[SainterK]

In no way am I making comparisons between the two players as far as attitude and heart go...in no way at all!

However, people said Geelong would fall without Ablett, and his loss would be felt acutely. It seems someone forgot to tell the other Geelong players, because 4 rounds in they are undefeated.

One man does not a team maketh, as loved as Lenny is, this should be our motto.

Our best performances in 2009, were the one's when everyone put in, and it wasn't left to one or two.

I can only remember a few of those last year.

Make me struggle to seperate the votes again please boys, not struggle to find five.

Play for one another, the wins will come.

[kosifantutti23]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

And we weren't good enough then and we certainly aren't good enough now.

The time for change is near or here.

Yes we were a long way from a flag the last two years. Change everything.

I was at the ground for the those grand finals and if i remember correctly..

WE DIDN'T WIN...

we aren't good enough...we tried those players and were found wanting..

CHANGE IS required...YOU and ROSS can dream and the rest of us will wait for reality to take over

I was also there for the two grand finals and we were a lot closer than Geelong, the dogs.....Lions, Eagles.

Should all 15 teams that didn't win the Grand Final change everything every year? If we had one the Grand Final by a point, would you be calling Mick Malthouse and telling him to change everything because they weren't good enough?

[I Love Peter Kiel]

We made a calculated decision to give the players a bit of a break over he summer to allow them to recover mentally.

So we started training two weeks after Collingwood.
And six or seven weeks after clubs that didn't make the finals.
Clubs like Richmond and Essendon.

So part of the problem is fitness.
Part of the problem is mental.

Overcome those two and we are back in the hunt.

Good points, EM.
Also if you check the draw the games in the second half the season seem much more winnable so we could come with a late rush. Unless the club totally self-destructs there's no way we'll miss the eight.
Plus I don't think Collingwood and Geelong will just go through the season undefeated. Yes I know, they have to play each other...

[bobmurray]

I can't see St.Kilda challenging for the flag for 3 simple reasons

1. Poor Foot skills (too many one sided players)
2. Too slow
3. Rucks are ordinary

We must have had a totally different list the last couple of years. Pretty sure we challenged for the flag in 2009 - 2010.

And we weren't good enough then and we certainly aren't good enough now.

The time for change is near or here.

Yes we were a long way from a flag the last two years. Change everything.

I was at the ground for the those grand finals and if i remember correctly..

WE DIDN'T WIN...

we aren't good enough...we tried those players and were found wanting..

CHANGE IS required...YOU and ROSS can dream and the rest of us will wait for reality to take over

I was also there for the two grand finals and we were a lot closer than Geelong, the dogs.....Lions, Eagles.

Should all 15 teams that didn't win the Grand Final change everything every year? If we had one the Grand Final by a point, would you be calling Mick Malthouse and telling him to change everything because they weren't good enough?

Obviously you are happy with how it all turned out and want the team left as it is......good for you..

i dont get off on near enough is good enough but each to their own....

[kosifantutti23]

Obviously you are happy with how it all turned out and want the team left as it is......good for you..

i dont get off on near enough is good enough but each to their own....

No I wasn't happy, but I realise we were one point away from being premiers. I don't think that justifies wide scale change.

Obviously you were suicidal in 2000 if you can't take any joy from our strong performances.