Raph

[dcstkfc]

Good in Round 1, stinkers last couple of weeks. Very little offensive drive in the last two weeks, and was spilling a lot of marks in Round 2. Round 3 didn't notice him much, supposedly on Winderlich according to fanfooty.com.au who kicked 3. How much longer can we wait for the good Raph to turn up every week rather than once every 4 or 5? His offensive potential is greater than some waiting in line- e.g. Simpkin and Walsh, but his errors in judgement and sometimes skill are an ongoing liability. Others are talking about Dempster, Peake and Jones as the ones who must go, but Raph will be 26 in September, and whilst a long-time supporter of his, I'm starting to think he has run his race at St Kilda.

[henno]

in fairness to raph, winderlich was gifted two goals (one a free kick down play after schneids bumped someone after they kicked it...and another where grammy was pinged for holding the ball in the goal square and someone kicked the ball away), and all 3 were in the second half, when the game was well and truly over...

[SaintPav]

Good in Round 1, stinkers last couple of weeks. Very little offensive drive in the last two weeks, and was spilling a lot of marks in Round 2. Round 3 didn't notice him much, supposedly on Winderlich according to fanfooty.com.au who kicked 3. How much longer can we wait for the good Raph to turn up every week rather than once every 4 or 5? His offensive potential is greater than some waiting in line- e.g. Simpkin and Walsh, but his errors in judgement and sometimes skill are an ongoing liability. Others are talking about Dempster, Peake and Jones as the ones who must go, but Raph will be 26 in September, and whilst a long-time supporter of his, I'm starting to think he has run his race at St Kilda.

yep.

Lets see what Lynch can do.

[borderbarry]

I think there are other defenders that should go before Raph.

[Dr Spaceman]

I think there are other defenders that should go before Raph.

Agree bb.

I have always been a Raph fan though that does not stop me seeing those things that infuriate others. At least he is creative, sometimes in a good way and occasionally in a bad way.

Of course he can and may be replaced but I think there are others who would be in the gun before him.

[BigMart]

Time to stop defending him....he is not performing...right under micro scope, this time with no excuses

[SaintPav]

I think there are other defenders that should go before Raph.

Like who?

[BigMart]

Not gwilt, s.fisher, dawson....not gilbert....blake was unlucky to go.....dempster is playing shut down.....raph would be the first imo

[White Winmar]

I really feel for Raph. There is no doubt he's a favourite "whipping boy". I still believe his health issues in regard to epilepsy must have some detrimental effect on him. Although manageable, there are various degrees of impairmant that come with the condition, from the very mild to the very severe. Not knowing the extent of his condition makes it hard to pass any sort of informed judgement, but I have a very close friend whose daughter has lived with significant epilepsy for 14 years and I can assure everyone it's no picnic managing the condition.

That said, Raph has played about 70 games and he is now in his eighth year at the club. I feel there's very little improvement, if any in him and I still believe his biggest problem is that the difference between his best and worst is simply too great. To me he looks like a man who has played one game, seventy times, rather than someone who has played 70 games. I remember him having a good run of form early on in his career in 2005. I was quite bullish about his prospects then. Unfortunately, I think he played better then than now. Unfortunately, I think he's now moving into the dreaded "list clogger" category.

[joffaboy]

Not gwilt, s.fisher, dawson....not gilbert....blake was unlucky to go.....dempster is playing shut down.....raph would be the first imo

Yup agreed. Raph should either be tried up field or given a spell. Blake is my preference over Raph in defence.

Gilbert needs to stop turning the bloody thing over. His disposal is appalling or he should be give the flick as well.

The others, including Dempster are doing a role for the team and should be left there.

No excuse for Raph. Shape up or ship out.

[jonesy]

We should let him develop for another few years.

He will be a player,just you wait and see,or so I've been told on here....

[WinnersOnly]

Saints should cash in why he has currency and trade him to West Sydney at seasons end. Time for the Saints to trade for draft picks and make some list changes...

[/b]

[SainterK]

Not a great couple of weeks, not alone, one or two will go back to Sandy IMO.

[Dr Spaceman]

Saints should cash in why he has currency and trade him to West Sydney at seasons end. Time for the Saints to trade for draft picks and make some list changes...

[/b]

And what do you see Raph's currency at?

[Thinline]

Saints should cash in why he has currency and trade him to West Sydney at seasons end. Time for the Saints to trade for draft picks and make some list changes...

[/b]

If he's uncontracted he can just walk to GWS.

There's no currency in him at all.

And he ain't Tambling...

We've got him and we'll just have to shape him. There's no choice. I hope he becomes a gun. With his gifts, he can, especially with an injury free run if he he has it in him. Besides tall, quick, agile defenders are hen's teeth. Persist, I say.

[Dr Spaceman]

Saints should cash in why he has currency and trade him to West Sydney at seasons end. Time for the Saints to trade for draft picks and make some list changes...

[/b]

If he's uncontracted he can just walk to GWS.

There's no currency in him at all.

And he ain't Tambling...

We've got him and we'll just have to shape him. There's no choice. I hope he becomes a gun. With his gifts, he can, especially with an injury free run if he he has it in him. Besides tall, quick, agile defenders are hen's teeth. Persist, I say.

Yep.

Unless we're prepared to trade an established gun we're likely to be offered only crap picks - which no doubt we'll waste on kids that will never make it.

[skeptic]

Not gwilt, s.fisher, dawson....not gilbert....blake was unlucky to go.....dempster is playing shut down.....raph would be the first imo

Not Fisher or Dawson Agreed.

Gwilt played far worse on the w/e
Gilbert is horribly out of form and all round ineffective atm
Dempster is playing shutdown!!! But is not actually shutting anyone down

I think Raph at least defends well

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I've had high hopes for him for years, but Raph seems to get games based on what he's done very occasionally in the past, or on what he might do if he ever reaches his potential.
Chances are it's never going to happen if we continue to just "gift" him games, which we seem to do year after year, at times when he's under-performing.
He's been almost non existent so far this year and I reckon I'd send him back to Sandy and not bring him back in again until he's ripping the VFL apart on a weekly basis. He has the ability and experience to do that and that's the sort of form we need him in. His kicking is so lollypoppy that he really needs to be doing other things extremely well, to be worth a spot in the side and it doesn't seem he is at the moment.
May be time to really put him under the pump and see if he responds. If he does it could be the ultimate making of him, if not, it will be time to cut our losses and say adios.

[Sobraz]

Have had a lot of time for Raph and been very patient the last few seasons... His occassional good game is good, but now, with a decent run at it, he is not delivering...

He just is not improving his consistency or his weaknesses... He still has terrible awareness with ball in hand... He was run down again on Sunday, after circling for what felt like half an hour with ball in hand... Just not good enough... It seems he will never get the urgency required...
That run down in the GF v the Cats will define his career.... People always defend it blaming Sam Fisher, but as a repeat offended, its where Raph is at...

Add to this his clangers are always monster ones... Either a terrible fumbled mark, or shocking turn over... Increasingly sells his teammates out by hand as well... Im not really fussed over what the statistics say, Raph's clangers always seem to end in an opposition score...

I think his time is up, and someone else needs to be given a run in his role... Winmar, Cripps, whoever... He's just not going to step up and make it Im afraid...

[BigMart]

I would suggest gilbert has a few credits in the bank, he was 3rd in the b&f last year and was in the running for aa last two seaons

Gwilt has been outstanding, then lyon thought it would be a good exercise to him to stand a bloke 197cm who can jump over a car....never gonna work

At least we know they can consistently play........more than two or three good games a year

Dempster.....no one else putting hands up as small defenders atm.....raf would be smashed by a small fwd...like byrnes did to him in 09, and he's rubbish

[St Lenny]

We should let him develop for another few years.

He will be a player,just you wait and see,or so I've been told on here....

He's had 8 years already, seriously, how long do you give him. Its madness, no other team in the league would give him a game.

[Thinline]

We should let him develop for another few years.

He will be a player,just you wait and see,or so I've been told on here....

He's had 8 years already, seriously, how long do you give him. Its madness, no other team in the league would give him a game.

Ergo, he's worthless to anyone but us.

Best be making do then.

[The Fireman]

Told ya so.

[gringo]

Raph hasn't been great, but only Fisher and Zac could claim to be up to scratch so far. My biggest disappointment is Gwilt, he has looked uncertain, run too far, and looked pressured more than is warranted. The backline looks under a lot more pressure because we are falling down in the forward line and midfield. We are letting it go in too quick for the backs to set their zone. Raph is a guy who under pressure can look uncertain but he still looks worthy of his place, besides Tommy Walsh and Lynch who is possibly more a Baker replacement, only Simpkin is left to come in that could play as a tall back. He isn't as mobile as Raph and Gilbert though, more a Sam Fisher quarterback type to me. And Walsh would probably look uncertain at times based solely on the length of his footy career.

[bobmurray]

Raph epitomises our luck with first round draft picks since Goddard....flawed.

it's a raffle who else to try...i'd prefer someone new rather than a previous tried and not quite up to it type player....it's not only Raph who is questionable but he is the one for this thread....