3 Decisions That Cost The Club History

[spert]

What about the mulitple decisions made that almost brought the club 2 Premierships:

Nick Dal Santo at pick 13 approx
Leigh Montagna pick 20-30 approx
James Gwilt pick 70 approx
Sam Fisher pick 40 approx
....and theres many more which could be named.

No one mentions those much.

But it's not as much fun to talk about those ones

Yeah but where's the silverware, Gwilt stands out as the finals performer.

[Johnny Member]

Honestly, we were the best team in 05 and in 09.

It wasn't our list that cost us in those years. It was injuries in 05, and rotten luck in 09.

The other years, an extra gun player or two may have made us the best team - but the best team doesn't always win it!


It's really silly to look back at things like this. Hell, maybe Judd's shoulders would have popped out if we drafted him! Everyone else on the list seemed to break down!

[degruch]

What about the mulitple decisions made that almost brought the club 2 Premierships:

Nick Dal Santo at pick 13 approx
Leigh Montagna pick 20-30 approx
James Gwilt pick 70 approx
Sam Fisher pick 40 approx
....and theres many more which could be named.

No one mentions those much.

But it's not as much fun to talk about those ones

Yeah but where's the silverware, Gwilt stands out as the finals performer.

It's a crying shame that the result of one game dictates whether you're a 'successful' team or not, or even the best team (e.g. Hawthorn 2008). But, that's the way it rolls. In 2009 we broke just about every record their was to break, yet we're still referred to as 'pretenders' by bitter opposition supporters (or even bitter St Kilda supporters)!

The fact is, if we hadn't recruited well, we wouldn't have even had a crack in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2010. Bad recruiting hasn't cost us premierships, just bad performances/decisions/luck on the day.

[Johnny Member]

What about the mulitple decisions made that almost brought the club 2 Premierships:

Nick Dal Santo at pick 13 approx
Leigh Montagna pick 20-30 approx
James Gwilt pick 70 approx
Sam Fisher pick 40 approx
....and theres many more which could be named.

No one mentions those much.

But it's not as much fun to talk about those ones

Yeah but where's the silverware, Gwilt stands out as the finals performer.

It's a crying shame that the result of one game dictates whether you're a 'successful' team or not, or even the best team (e.g. Hawthorn 2008). But, that's the way it rolls. In 2009 we broke just about every record their was to break, yet we're still referred to as 'pretenders' by bitter opposition supporters (or even bitter St Kilda supporters)!

The fact is, if we hadn't recruited well, we wouldn't have even had a crack in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2010. Bad recruiting hasn't cost us premierships, just bad performances/decisions/luck on the day.

Yeah, I agree.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Well I'm just glad we took Andrew McQualter instead of Mark LeCras. It's not like that's probably single-handedly cost us the last two flags or anything.

[degruch]

Well I'm just glad we took Andrew McQualter instead of Mark LeCras. It's not like that's probably single-handedly cost us the last two flags or anything.

You mean you would have ignored a highly fancied U16 and U18 Victorian Country Captain (who went to school with BJ, would would have vouched for his ability, I'm sure) for some unknown from the WAFL?

Even the Eagles used a second round pick for LeCras.

On the face of things, you'd think the Saints made an astute choice...doesn't always work out. That's why 20/20 hindsight is such a useless quality.

[stinger]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/h ... 1cgct.html

Timing

amen brother...

[SainterK]

I feel like I am going against the general mood of this thread, and my contribution is not really negative enough, but I'm yet to see anything that would suggest Jack can exist in a forward line as one of two KPF's....

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Well I'm just glad we took Andrew McQualter instead of Mark LeCras. It's not like that's probably single-handedly cost us the last two flags or anything.

You mean you would have ignored a highly fancied U16 and U18 Victorian Country Captain (who went to school with BJ, would would have vouched for his ability, I'm sure) for some unknown from the WAFL?

Even the Eagles used a second round pick for LeCras.

On the face of things, you'd think the Saints made an astute choice...doesn't always work out. That's why 20/20 hindsight is such a useless quality.

It was just a joke, I realise it's far from easy and I'm pretty sure I didn't say I would have done anything of the sort.

[Moods]

What about the mulitple decisions made that almost brought the club 2 Premierships:

Nick Dal Santo at pick 13 approx
Leigh Montagna pick 20-30 approx
James Gwilt pick 70 approx
Sam Fisher pick 40 approx
....and theres many more which could be named.

No one mentions those much.

But it's not as much fun to talk about those ones

Yeah but where's the silverware, Gwilt stands out as the finals performer.

It's a crying shame that the result of one game dictates whether you're a 'successful' team or not, or even the best team (e.g. Hawthorn 2008). But, that's the way it rolls. In 2009 we broke just about every record their was to break, yet we're still referred to as 'pretenders' by bitter opposition supporters (or even bitter St Kilda supporters)!

The fact is, if we hadn't recruited well, we wouldn't have even had a crack in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2010. Bad recruiting hasn't cost us premierships, just bad performances/decisions/luck on the day.

Agree completely with Degruch. sadly that's the way history sees things. To be honest the EPL do it a much fairer way, but much less exciting way. Top team wins the championship. Not advocating that the AFL should go that way (not that they ever would) it's just a much fairer way of determining who was the best team that season. In 97 and 09 we were clearly the best team. Luck in 97 with injuries crueled us in the end. 09 poor kicking on the day ruined us. That's footy though

[degruch]

[/quote]It was just a joke, I realise it's far from easy and I'm pretty sure I didn't say I would have done anything of the sort.[/quote]

It's getting hard to tell who's joking and who's not on here!

Reading the article about Jack Riewoldt at the Saints, I can't believe some arsehole actually wanted John Beveridge to comment on why he didn't pick JR ahead of Armitage...now that's a joke. Maybe they should have asked the other 11 recruiters who thought their club didn't need another KP forward?

[degruch]

That's footy though

It is, and we're not the only club who could sigh and wonder what if. Geez, as much as I hate 'em, how's Collingwood's GF luck over the years...pretty poor, honestly.

[ashjam]

Well some have chose to criticise me for this post, stating hindsight, been done to death etc.

First of all, this topic has created a big response and discussion which in my view is what these places are for isn't it?

Second of all, I agree with some posters that we have made some very good decisions with recruiting, Sam Fisher, Gilbert, Montagna and Gwilt being ones that come to mind.

However, I will stand by my original comments, the philosophy taking Ball before Judd was the wrong roll of the dice as had we have gone Judd we most likely would have still got Ball only because of hs age (17 at the time, and his reluctance to live interstate).

Had this have happened we all would have witnessed multiple flags by now.

As stinger also wrote, Blind Freddy knew of Jack's talents over Armitage at the time, and Matt Rendell, who was working at our club until September 2006, had been spruiking about Dangerfield for years, and history shows he went to Adelaide and chose him.

Anyway, it is a case of what could have been, and although some people like to attack, I am pleased it has got some people's attention.

[Dr Spaceman]

It's getting hard to tell who's joking and who's not on here!

Reading the article about Jack Riewoldt at the Saints, I can't believe some arsehole actually wanted John Beveridge to comment on why he didn't pick JR ahead of Armitage...now that's a joke. Maybe they should have asked the other 11 recruiters who thought their club didn't need another KP forward?

Particularly the Western Bulldogs who had been crying out for one for years and took the itsy bitsy spider instead

[gringo]

Mc evoy gone would make us look a little short wouldn't it? Well maybe Cain Ackland could have come back. Ruckmen are not about instant effect they hit their straps at about 25 so he may just be a great recruit. You could say not developing our own rucks cost us under Thommo. Monky, Clarke that c**k from North, Ackland etc. all were a disaster so we had to look at getting someone to develop. Essendon were waiting ages for Hille and Ryder to develop, now they're set for the next 10 years. We seemed to have a good forward line and a number of A grade mids, roll the dice and some come up, some don't.

[Johnny Member]

Well some have chose to criticise me for this post, stating hindsight, been done to death etc.

First of all, this topic has created a big response and discussion which in my view is what these places are for isn't it?

I never have an issue with anyone raising anything for discussion! that's what this place is here for!

What I think is silly though, is when people want to use hindsight but don't allow for any other variables.

Meaning, if we added Judd to our current team or any other team since his 2nd season we'd be awesome - if everything else that happened remained exactly the same!

He could have been injured in his first training session. He may have left for more money anyway before we won a flag. His presence may have forced other to leave for more money. We may have had him, but may have lost Roo to injury. etc. etc.

I'm cool with hypotheticals and 'what ifs', but I can't agree with flat out statements that we'd have definitely won flags if certain things like recruitment were done differently.

[degruch]

It's getting hard to tell who's joking and who's not on here!

Reading the article about Jack Riewoldt at the Saints, I can't believe some arsehole actually wanted John Beveridge to comment on why he didn't pick JR ahead of Armitage...now that's a joke. Maybe they should have asked the other 11 recruiters who thought their club didn't need another KP forward?

Particularly the Western Bulldogs who had been crying out for one for years and took the itsy bitsy spider instead

To be honest, the Doggies had so many holes to fill at the time, they probably hadn't realised they needed a FF!

We had a lot of tall forward options in 2006 (Roo, Hamill, G-Train, Watts, Ferguson, Brooks, Kosi, Allen), but a midfield consisting of a retiring Harvs, a mid-20's Lenny (who's still probably got 5 years left in him!), a permenantly injured Luke Ball, and a lot of outside runners...so we recruited a hard in-under 18 year old midfielder for the future as our first round pick...doesn't seem so dense to me. I'd agree, it hasn't worked out as we'd all hoped...yet.

[noob]

only one that probably cost us was bartel over clarke.

[Johnny Member]

Mc evoy gone would make us look a little short wouldn't it? Well maybe Cain Ackland could have come back. Ruckmen are not about instant effect they hit their straps at about 25 so he may just be a great recruit. You could say not developing our own rucks cost us under Thommo. Monky, Clarke that c**k from North, Ackland etc. all were a disaster so we had to look at getting someone to develop. Essendon were waiting ages for Hille and Ryder to develop, now they're set for the next 10 years. We seemed to have a good forward line and a number of A grade mids, roll the dice and some come up, some don't.

McEvoy will be a gun.

May even happen as early as this year I reckon.


We've been trying to develop ruckmen for years. We started with Knobel as a 21yo, then he left. Ackland was only 22 when we got him - then he left! We gave up a lot for Brooks - then he did his knee and was toast.

We've also tried the recycled thing with the attempt on Cox, then Clarke, then Gardiner and King.

I don't think we really had a choice but to get a young ruckman from the draft. We're fortunate that he appears to be one who can play forward also - that's crucial these days.

Once ruckmen mature and start to show signs of being decent, they're pretty much unafforadable to poach (unless you're Collingwood for some reason!) so you need to get them young and grow them, or get them old and hope they don't break down and squeeze a year or so out of them.

[SainterK]

Wonder if Richmond fans are wondering what there forward line would look tomorrow night if they'd taken Buddy over Tambling

[Johnny Member]

Wonder if Richmond fans are wondering what there forward line would look tomorrow night if they'd taken Buddy over Tambling

And/or Pavlich over Fiora!

[MCG-Unit]

Deleted

[mohannair]

All looks O.K. in Hindsight. Unfortunately thats not how the real life pans out.

Think positive & move ahead instead of weeping over the past.

Recruiting is the making & breaking of a football club.

I have rated the 3 worst decisions in drafting for us in the last decade that have cost our club so much.

1) 2001 - Pick #2 Luke Ball
Aside from Luke now being at Collingwood, the fallout from the decision not to select Chris Judd with this pick is dramatic and will continue.
Judd was a Sandringham Dragon and a Caulfield Grammar boy.
The most frustrating thing with this selection was that had we rolled the dice and taken Judd with this pick, it is almost certain we still would have got Ball with pick 5 as the two WA clubs were desperate for Polak and Sampi at the time, and would not have taken Ball as he was still staying at school in Melbourne for all of the next year.
Had Judd been a Saint we would have almost certainly been premiers in 2005, 2009 & 2010, and possibly 2004.
This decision alone has cost us at least 3 premierships.

2) 2006 - Pick #9 David Armitage
Whilst Armitage still battles away on our list, the decision not to take Jack Riewoldt defies any logic.
His cousin is a St.Kilda legend, captain and multiple best & fairest winner.
It was good enough to draft Raphael Clarke to join brother Xavier a few years earlier, it should have been a no-brainer that Jack Riewoldt should have joined his cousin at the Saints.
Jack wanted to come to St.Kilda.
Can you imagine our forward line with him in the goalsquare for the next 10 years?

3)2007 - Pick #9 Ben McEvoy
I rate McEvoy and think he is going to be a pretty good player.
However, next player chosen in that draft was Patrick Dangerfield followed 2 picks later by Cyril Rioli.
Ask yourself now if either Adelaide or Hawthorn came to us now and wanted to trade Dangerfield or Rioli for McEvoy would we do it??
Both of those players are lightning quick and imagine either one of those in our side now.

Can you imagine where we would be as a football club had we got these 3 decisions right?

[remboy]

I'm sure if you went through every other club they've all made as many poor decisions as we have.
Just one question, if we hadn't drafted McEvoy, who woud have played in the ruck on Friday - Michael Rix?

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm sure if you went through every other club they've all made as many poor decisions as we have.
Just one question, if we hadn't drafted McEvoy, who woud have played in the ruck on Friday - Michael Rix?

You say that as though it's a negative