Saints Preview- The age

[saintbrat]

the herald sun had their Saints focus a couple of weeks ago
now the age have a go
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... 1bwhf.html

They had plenty of off-field distractions, starting with Andrew Lovett's dismissal early last year, but just kept performing.

They "stick fat", as captain Nick Riewoldt put it a few weeks ago, and stay remarkably focussed.

The playing style was given its own tag - Saints Footy.

And the collective mindset was labelled The Bubble.

It took them to three grand finals, including last year's draw.

But for Matthew Scarlett's toe poke to Gary Ablett in 2009 and the ball that bounced away from Stephen Milne in the dying seconds of the draw, the Saints could have won two premierships.

When you look at St Kilda's well-established durability over the last two seasons, the bigger surprise this season will be if they fail to make the top four.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

Nice mark Ben

[dcstkfc]

No Gamble in that line up

No clue

[Dr Spaceman]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

[dcstkfc]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Agree. I'd like to see them line up that way, too. It's some sort of forward line!

[Moods]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

Why? I agree 100% with the author. Who would you drop to put Gamble in for? Possibly Peake, but despite his sus skills he does provide run that we desperately lack. No doubt blokes will be given a chance as the year wears on, and some will be given a go from the start (mainly b/c you never have the chance to pick your best team) but if every player was available that would be my best team too. The only two players who are vulnerable there in my opinion are Peake and Dempster. You're not going to put a 1st gamer in a previous Grand Final team for the past 2 years in the best possible team.

[desertsaint]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

Why? I agree 100% with the author. Who would you drop to put Gamble in for? Possibly Peake, but despite his sus skills he does provide run that we desperately lack. No doubt blokes will be given a chance as the year wears on, and some will be given a go from the start (mainly b/c you never have the chance to pick your best team) but if every player was available that would be my best team too. The only two players who are vulnerable there in my opinion are Peake and Dempster. You're not going to put a 1st gamer in a previous Grand Final team for the past 2 years in the best possible team.

Agree - it currently is the best lineup based on the previous season.
Hopefully it won't be the best lineup come the end of this season.
But if it is, it means the guys earned their spot - personally I'm hoping Steven and Gamble, at the least, make the grade. Armo I'd include, but I've just about given up on him.

[plugger66]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

Are you serious. I think Gamble will play but what the hell has he done. Not much at all. It is one persons opinion, not lazy journalism.

[iwantmeseats]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

Are you serious. I think Gamble will play but what the hell has he done. Not much at all. It is one persons opinion, not lazy journalism.

Gamble, HAS to play, is it just me, come on. Somebody asked maybe you drop peake for gamble? In a heartbeat. We MUST provide other targets up foward besides bloody Roo! Peake is not a lead up foward target, nor is Milne. Kosi, who the hell knows what he is doing, either way hasnt been a lead up foward of substance in 5 years. Schneider, not a lead up foward!

We certainly do need "spark"!! Or we die, starting this year. That line up looks good on paper and largely IS good, but unfortunately our weaknesses, while few, are glaring. PACE and foward targets. I cant address the pace issue, f***ed if I know where the hell that is going to come from!!

[Mr X from the West]

Peake and Dempster are definitely NOT in our best 22.

[gringo]

I don't agree on Dempster on his form in the Nab and on solid form over the year last year. He returned from a knee and did ok.

Peake has weaknesses but he is the only player beside Gram who can give some pace. We need to work his ass off on the training track. I know some young guys look good but they aren't going to play a full season.

Jack steven and Armo should challenge for a spot this season.

[Moods]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

Are you serious. I think Gamble will play but what the hell has he done. Not much at all. It is one persons opinion, not lazy journalism.

Gamble, HAS to play, is it just me, come on. Somebody asked maybe you drop peake for gamble? In a heartbeat. We MUST provide other targets up foward besides bloody Roo! Peake is not a lead up foward target, nor is Milne. Kosi, who the hell knows what he is doing, either way hasnt been a lead up foward of substance in 5 years. Schneider, not a lead up foward!

We certainly do need "spark"!! Or we die, starting this year. That line up looks good on paper and largely IS good, but unfortunately our weaknesses, while few, are glaring. PACE and foward targets. I cant address the pace issue, f***ed if I know where the hell that is going to come from!!

WEll if Gamble has to play then he has to start doing something. He certainly hasn't blown me out of the water. With that team we have two talls in Kosi and Roo and a lead up fwd in Gilbert, and two quality smalls in schneider and Milne. No room for Gamble in THAT team. However, that won't be the team that lines up Rd 1 b/c of injuries so Gamble may well get a go - will be very interesting.

[iwantmeseats]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

Are you serious. I think Gamble will play but what the hell has he done. Not much at all. It is one persons opinion, not lazy journalism.

Gamble, HAS to play, is it just me, come on. Somebody asked maybe you drop peake for gamble? In a heartbeat. We MUST provide other targets up foward besides bloody Roo! Peake is not a lead up foward target, nor is Milne. Kosi, who the hell knows what he is doing, either way hasnt been a lead up foward of substance in 5 years. Schneider, not a lead up foward!

We certainly do need "spark"!! Or we die, starting this year. That line up looks good on paper and largely IS good, but unfortunately our weaknesses, while few, are glaring. PACE and foward targets. I cant address the pace issue, f***ed if I know where the hell that is going to come from!!

WEll if Gamble has to play then he has to start doing something. He certainly hasn't blown me out of the water. With that team we have two talls in Kosi and Roo and a lead up fwd in Gilbert, and two quality smalls in schneider and Milne. No room for Gamble in THAT team. However, that won't be the team that lines up Rd 1 b/c of injuries so Gamble may well get a go - will be very interesting.

I thought gamble showed a bit in the first NAB game, I think it was. Hell, he almost only has to draw a coupe of extra defenders, that would be a win at minimum IMO.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't care if it's Gamble. I don't care if it's Polo.

I don't care if it's Armo, Lynch, Smith, Heyne.

I don't care if it's Cripps, Ledger, Crocker, Walsh, Archer.

Part of it is we've fallen short in the last couple of years. Part of it is we need to find more goals. Part of it is we need more pace; more skills.

But to me the biggest thing is we need an injection of new blood just to give the side a spark. The current team has done a magnificent job over the last 2 years simply by busting a gut to get themselves in a position to have a shot at the flag. But they've fallen short 3 times in a row.

It's going to take a supreme effort to get themselves up for another shot and IMO they need an injection of something new to give them a boost, both on the field and from a psychological point of view.

They need a spark from someone, or preferably, a few someones.

[busso mick]

I don't care if it's Gamble. I don't care if it's Polo.

I don't care if it's Armo, Lynch, Smith, Heyne.

I don't care if it's Cripps, Ledger, Crocker, Walsh, Archer.

Part of it is we've fallen short in the last couple of years. Part of it is we need to find more goals. Part of it is we need more pace; more skills.

But to me the biggest thing is we need an injection of new blood just to give the side a spark. The current team has done a magnificent job over the last 2 years simply by busting a gut to get themselves in a position to have a shot at the flag. But they've fallen short 3 times in a row.

It's going to take a supreme effort to get themselves up for another shot and IMO they need an injection of something new to give them a boost, both on the field and from a psychological point of view.

They need a spark from someone, or preferably, a few someones.

My sentiments exactly Dr S. Like the introduction of Jones, Smith and Brown in the mid-1990's.

[saintspremiers]

Gotta love "The Alias Brothers" I agree!

[Moods]

I reckon we're debating two different things. The journalist was accused of being lazy b/c he basically picked the same team that ran out in last years GF as our best team. I think that's our starting point for our best team. These new blokes have to demand a spot. Who has done that this pre-season? I reckon that's half our problem. Whether it's local footy or the highest level, new players (young or recruits) have to demand a spot unless they're proven performers (Darren Jolly comes to mind with the pies last year who deserved to be persevered with)

If you are untried, or if you are a discard from another club then you should have to work yo get into the team, like Gilbert did, like Gwilt did, like McEvoy is doing.

Gamble played well in our 1st pre-season games in mid Feb. Good starting point, but I would have liked to see that happen consistently throughout the pre-season comp. Same goes for Armo and a few others who are trying to cement a spot.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

I like that best 22 better than any I've seen on this site for 2011. Not going to be the R1, let alone R22 team... but I like it.

I suspect those calling for "spark" are looking to get excited after an uninspiring preseason. There's no indication at this point that senior players are playing in need of "spark" or that any of the kids are likely to provide it, while there's every indication we'll be a top 4 side again.

It'd be good to work in and develop some players with an eye on the next generation, but I suspect this regime will want to quantify that more closely than "adding some spark".

[saint66au]

Sadly just at the moment pace and kicking accuracy are mutually exclusive

Gram, Peake and Jones are prolly our 3 quickest players but are also 3 of the blokes you DONT want delivering the ball inside 50 to a leading forward

Pace is one thing, but if you just turn it over after a blistering run its actually a liability, as most of the team will be caught out of position

[Teflon]

their best Line up

Best line-up:

B: Steven Baker, Zac Dawson, Jason Blake
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, James Gwilt
C: Clinton Jones, Lenny Hayes, Farren Ray
HF: Brendon Goddard, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Adam Schneider
R: Michael Gardiner, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna
I: Brett Peake, Ben McEvoy, Raph Clarke, Sean Dempster

While that is a bloody good line up, and it's hard to drop blokes, I just feel we are going to be in trouble if we don't get some new blood in there.

There's got to be some spark!

Smacks of lazy journalism I reckon

I like that best 22 better than any I've seen on this site for 2011. Not going to be the R1, let alone R22 team... but I like it.

I suspect those calling for "spark" are looking to get excited after an uninspiring preseason. There's no indication at this point that senior players are playing in need of "spark" or that any of the kids are likely to provide it, while there's every indication we'll be a top 4 side again.
quote]

Since you're all into "quanifying" things and not a fan of emotive decisions in sport...when sport is largely about emotion and motivation that cant be quantified....Im intersted in your statistical evidence based on performances so far this pre season that indicates:

(a) Senior player are clealry motivated.
(b) None of our kids are likely to provide "spark"
(c) Clear indication we will be top 4.

Statistically quantifiable for a person of your standing Im sure.

[Teflon]

no comment.

[hungry for a premiership]

A balance needs to be struck here.

That team looks excellent on paper, and if every one of those blokes played their best they'd be excellent on the field as well. Unfortunately, though, so many planets have to align and you just get the feeling that this teams best football, sadly, is in all likelihood behind it.
The problem with sticking with the same squad for years on end is that the fall, when it comes, will be mighty hard, it will be a plummet. The squad has to keep evolving.

Rather than simply playing the same guys automatically because they've been regulars of the past 2-3 seasons, I say let everyone start on a LEVEL playing field. Gamble, Steven, Stanley, and whoever else you care to name, are on equal footing with Gram, Peake, Dempster Ray etc. Stanley and Steven have PACE. We need pace. They have an X factor. And if that X factor turns out to work for us, then our team will be better than the one printed above, and the squad will have evolved and moved forward.

[matrix]

Peake and Dempster are definitely NOT in our best 22.

agreed
this is the only two possible not to make it imo and maybe some of the youth comes in

[Teflon]

Peake and Dempster are definitely NOT in our best 22.

agreed
this is the only two possible not to make it imo and maybe some of the youth comes in

On form Gram would have to be in that mix.

Has had injuries sure, but facts are he's been ordinary since 2009 GF....thats a long drought.....and you cant carry players and Im not convinced on current output that one of the kids couldnt do that role (at the least) to minimum effect. This would also mean that "said kid would get much needed match experience.

[Teflon]

A balance needs to be struck here.

That team looks excellent on paper, and if every one of those blokes played their best they'd be excellent on the field as well. Unfortunately, though, so many planets have to align and you just get the feeling that this teams best football, sadly, is in all likelihood behind it.
The problem with sticking with the same squad for years on end is that the fall, when it comes, will be mighty hard, it will be a plummet. The squad has to keep evolving.

Rather than simply playing the same guys automatically because they've been regulars of the past 2-3 seasons, I say let everyone start on a LEVEL playing field. Gamble, Steven, Stanley, and whoever else you care to name, are on equal footing with Gram, Peake, Dempster Ray etc. Stanley and Steven have PACE. We need pace. They have an X factor. And if that X factor turns out to work for us, then our team will be better than the one printed above, and the squad will have evolved and moved forward.

I totally agree and while Im a massive Lyon fan (best match day coach in the gmae for me) - his 1 major flaw......he hasnt evolved the next generation. Sure weve won games, but we've not really seen if even Armitage will make it yet....

IMHO our fall will be hard looking at that side on paper. Im not seduced by names on a page I look at current output and many have dropped since 09 days. Hayes and co are mighty, but they too in time will drop output to mere mortals no longer capable of carrying us. Then we will say..."whats coming through...?"

Sydney have evolevd their ageing list. Dogs too I reckon are doing this and with some good kids that should help their "window time".

In 2011 Lyon has no choice but to get brave and play some kids for extended periods. IF we are seeing the likes of Mqualter,Peake, Dempsters et al getting regular games....ring the alarm bell.