Seen no real changes....

[Mr Magic]

David armitage

And was he effective in that role?

[PJ]

Roos hair is definatley shorter whereas Milne seems to have more length at the back - do these rate as real changes!!

[bergholt]

i noticed last night - even in congested space - the bombers players take us on cos they think they can outrun us. they do play their best footy against us for some reason.

but we need to be careful more teams dont start following that blueprint against us.

collingwood and geelong both do it. every team in the comp is going to be playing that way more and more. we need to work out how to handle it, i reckon.

[Teflon]

i noticed last night - even in congested space - the bombers players take us on cos they think they can outrun us.

That only works IF they also win the contested ball - which against us Bombers have been.

Its why IMHO Hayes needs support, Armitage HAS to stan up.
Montagna/Dal have to become busier when hayes is tagged....and McEvoy must be able to give our mids an even chance out of the centre.

Geelong do it to - sweep forward in waves..........IF we had won more of those 50/50 contested sistuations against Bombers....I wonder how often they would have been out of play (as they back their man and run fwd to) and how slow they'd look as a result?

In week 1 NAB we flogged the Bombers in that first half - they couldnt win a contest.They came out after half time and changed that and we went into our shell. We gotta get more angry for 4 qtrs against Dons.

I am convinced under sustained pressure they fall over and guys like Leroy Jetta look like the avg footballers they really are.....not side stepping geniuses....

[degruch]

We lack pace and skills.

FYI - I'm not interested in celebrating losing grand finals.

Let's not overlook the fact we lack those things. Let's face up to reality.

I want a premiership, not self-delusional crap. We'd have two flags if we had faster and more skilled players.

Smartest quote in the thread.

Hit the nail right on the head with that one.

You don't need pace - you do need skill. NAB Cup rounds are not generally noted for their skill, it's early days, so I wouldn't be panicking there.

For the record, I've had opposition supporters tell me we're delusional for the last 3 years...the club's supposedly noted for it. Personally, I think the last 3 finals campaigns, win or lose, haven't been a bad effort for a crap team!

[hungry for a premiership]

Everyone wants to see us score more goals and be better in attack, but what is the one most salient element of our game plan that has enabled us to reach the past 2 grand finals??? Answer: Our defence, ranked number 1 in '09 and '10.

In '09, did anyone have a problem with our attack? I think not, it was good, it was potent, we thumped sides with big scores, and our defence was superb. Last year, our defence was superb again, but our attack was lacking. Hmmm, maybe the fact that we were missing our champion CHF and captain had something to do with it, maybe.

My point is that if we can be number one in defence again this year, we are half-way, or more, to finally winning the frigging thing at long last. With Roo back for this year, all that's needed is that bit of cream on top in attack. ie a Gilbert floating forward etc. I don't want to see us advance in attack if it means we disproportionately decline in defence.

So just chill and don't panic that "nothing's changed." If nothing changes with regard to our defencive potency, that will be a good thing.

[lefty]

I'm still not sure about Gilbert up forward.

He doesn't seem to "read" the ball/play correctly like a natural forward.

Honestly prefer him in the backline, as his run and carry is more important imo.

I think we need Stanley up forward beside Nick, so they play one side of the field each, with Kosi down deep.

Gram atm is my real concern, played crap, and didn't look interested in running/chasing at all, his performance against Essendon was woeful. Maybe he's injured, but he seriously needs to start doing good things, atm he's out of my top 22.

I think we also need to find another wing player, Peake when under pressure shows his flaws (eg kicking/F*** ups), and Ray can go really really quiet. Maybe just play one of the youngsters like Ledger or Crocker instead. Ledger has speed, Crocker a lovely left foot kick.

I think Stevens will be fighting for a spot with McQualter as well.

[BigMart]

Hungary for a premiership...i dont think that stating that making a gf is proof enough our gp is successful.....we did not achieve success....

Youbcould just as easy argue that our inability to score goals cost us two....

[degruch]

I'm still not sure about Gilbert up forward.

He doesn't seem to "read" the ball/play correctly like a natural forward.

Honestly prefer him in the backline, as his run and carry is more important imo.

100% agree...I'm hoping Gilbert up forward is a pre-season ruse. It would seem that with Gamble, Steven, Stanley, maybe Heyne and Archer, we have a lot of forward options. OK, the second two are not 'game ready', but the others are more than viable IMO.

[Go Sainters Go]

i noticed last night - even in congested space - the bombers players take us on cos they think they can outrun us. they do play their best footy against us for some reason.

but we need to be careful more teams dont start following that blueprint against us.

collingwood and geelong both do it. every team in the comp is going to be playing that way more and more. we need to work out how to handle it, i reckon.

Gotta win the ball out of the middle and at stoppages - very hard to do when you have makeshift ruckmen being thrashed as Essendon did. Made them look quick as a result.

[Teflon]

Last week we played a side missing 7 of it's best 10 players, whilst we fielded 9 of our best 10.....we were expected to win by 10 goals...and we did.....this week, given the selected sides and preparation I would have expected a close-ish hit out...esp..with our entire midfield...

whens the last time an "entire midfield" doesnt include a ruckman?

Id argue last yr GF2 we also played ruck-less......WITH our so called fab 4 mids in.....aznd still got smashed.

The point?

Rucks important. McEvoy is huge this year.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I'm still not sure about Gilbert up forward.

He doesn't seem to "read" the ball/play correctly like a natural forward.

Honestly prefer him in the backline, as his run and carry is more important imo.

How many actual games of footy has he played up forward in his life (since he started playing in his mid-late teens)? I'm guessing not that many, so it's surely going to take a bit of time for him to get used to playing that role and to look comfortable there.
In the two GF's (especially the second one) and the quarter he played forward in a game at Etihad earlier in the year, I saw plenty that said to me he's worth an extended trial there. And I mean extended, like 8-10 games, not 2-3. But as I've said several times in the past couple of years, it surely has to be across half forward, where he can use his great assets of pace and endurance, to run someone off their legs, Roo-style. Deep forward surely doesn't suit him as much (being pretty thin) and that's the role he's been mostly playing in the NAB Cup. It could work, but I think we're better off with Roo and Kosi (and or McEvoy, or Rhys) deep and Gilbo outside the 50.
In that game at Etihad, Gilbo was playing across HF, near us and he ran whoever he was on off their legs. He was running around like a hairy goat; up, back, criss-crossing the 50, just seemed to be running non-stop and whoever he was on was lucky to stay within 15m of him, as he ran them ragged.
If he played like that most weeks, which I see no reason why he wouldn't, imagine the improvement over what we got last year from say McQualter, in the same area. Mini was there to "mind space" and tackle and would get about 8 possies. Gilbert could get 8 possies in about a third of the time, his tackling is better, quicker and more ferocious and he'd provide us with a genuine, very mobile, 194cm marking target. Huge up-side. Any goals would be a bonus. His kicking is in-consistent, as we're all aware, but when he hits them well they stay about 5 feet off the ground and get to the target in a big hurry, which is a plus, as is his ability to thump them 55m over the top, to someone like Roo (either running with the flight towards goal, or over the back, in the goalsquare). He's also shown a good ability to read the flight of the ball down back, where he's taken shitloads of marks floating across a pack, or whatever, so I see reason why he wouldn't be able to read it coming into the forward line and float across packs and pluck them there, too (when it moves in there more slowly).
Sure we could do with him down back, but with Raph hopefully back there now, Blake and Fisher looking as good as ever and Gwilt getting better by the month (plus Zac), we can definitely afford to not have Gilbo there. If we need more run out of there, we could even put someone like Ray down on the back flank, or someone like Al Smith, who will hopefully be ready this year.

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm still not sure about Gilbert up forward.

He doesn't seem to "read" the ball/play correctly like a natural forward.

Honestly prefer him in the backline, as his run and carry is more important imo.

How many actual games of footy has he played up forward in his life (since he started playing in his mid-late teens)? I'm guessing not that many, so it's surely going to take a bit of time for him to get used to playing that role and to look comfortable there.
In the two GF's (especially the second one) and the quarter he played forward in a game at Etihad earlier in the year, I saw plenty that said to me he's worth an extended trial there. And I mean extended, like 8-10 games, not 2-3. But as I've said several times in the past couple of years, it surely has to be across half forward, where he can use his great assets of pace and endurance, to run someone off their legs, Roo-style. Deep forward surely doesn't suit him as much and that's the role he's been mostly playing in the NAB Cup. It could work, but I think we're better off with Roo and Kosi (and or McEvoy, or Rhys) deep and Gilbo outside the 50.
In that game at Etihad, Gilbo was playing across HF, near us and he ran whoever he was on off their legs. He was running around like a hairy goat; up, back, criss-crossing the 50, just seemed to be running non-stop and whoever he was on was lucky to stay within 15m of him, as he ran them ragged.
If he played like that most weeks, which I see no reason why he wouldn't, imagine the improvement over what we got last year from say McQualter, in the same area. Mini was there to "mind space" and tackle and would get about 8 possies. Gilbert could get 8 possies in about a third of the time, his tackling is better, quicker and more ferocious and he'd provide us with a genuine, very mobile marking target. Huge up-side.
Sure we could do with him down back, but with Raph hopefully back there now, Blake and Fisher looking as good as ever and Gwilt getting better by the year, we can definitely afford to not have Gilbo there.

Very good post APS

[BigMart]

Mcevoy did play in gf2.....did not help much, we were much better served with kosi, blake in gf1....in fact they we a major reason we tracked well in the second half

[Mr Magic]

Mcevoy did play in gf2.....did not help much, we were much better served with kosi, blake in gf1....in fact they we a major reason we tracked well in the second half

Actually I think it had more to do with BJ and Lenny going 'third man up' for much of the second half - something Collingwood seemed to have difficulty with.
BUT the following week they made a conscious effort to 'block' both BJ and Lenny from doing this again.

[The OtherThommo]

Truth is, in week 2 of GF 2010 we had up to 7 fellas who had been jabbed in week 1 of GF 2010. It was reasonable to do it, 'cos who plans for a draw? But, to expect them up the next week......doubtful.

Many can talk much about our deficiencies. But, I'm a system person. If we are so devoid of a future, how is it we keep getting so close?

Pot, whinge, bitch....I don't buy it. I reckon we are the best side playing, with a growing blend of youngsters of interesting capability.

We are now sustainable, honest, with a real view forward.

As for the perennial knockers, oh dear, isn't Ross Lyon just so pathetic.

FFS, the Boss has the highest winning % of any coach in AFL History. What should we expect him to do? Self immolate in the name of a cause?

He is the best there is, with an unparalleled record. We'll get better and be around about again. Why? Cos Ross will make sure it's so.

Wait and watch how good we are.

[Con Gorozidis]

So the pies had no injuries or had planned for a draw? ive never read a single poster bagging RL or who doesnt rate him as either the best or the next best coach in town. There are actually no "perrenial knockers". You just invented them to then place yourself as a sensible defender of RL. So u can be as sensible as you like and pat yourself on the back all day for being so sensible. But conversation on here is usually based on how we can win a flag by 10 goals. It is taken as the default and starting point that we have a good side and a good coach. People post to discuss how we can get better.

so putting your sensible superiority aside. we ask how can an excellent side with an excellent coach get better? saying "Why? Cos Ross will make sure it's so" isnt really a practical or even sensible answer and also is against the entire spirit of these kinds of websites.

we also have to face the possibility that ross goes to carlton next year. hes an outstanding coach and dont be surprised if hes poached at top dollar.

[BigMart]

Great post con.....hopefully a few will view it...

Any suggestion we need improvement or some area is weak....all of a sudden it is RL bashing. And anti-stk trolling ....

Im not interested in a lovefest and dont wear rose glasses....i want a pship before i die.....thats all

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Very good post APS [/quote]Thanks kindly.
I've gotta say, after watching last night, though, that we really will have to improve significantly, if we're to win it this year, unless something goes significantly awry with Collingwood.
Krakouer looks to have given them more potency up forward, which has in turn freed up Leon Davis to go back and possibly re-ignite his career. It's been like adding two, instead of one to their best team, so far. The likes of Sidebottom, Thomas and Dawes look to be continuing to improve, plus there's the addition of Tarrant. They also still look very hungry and don't appear to have any sort of "premiership hangover" at all.
One major thing of concern is the amount of speed and skill they now have, an area that causes us trouble. Thomas, Heath Shaw, Leon Davis down back, and now Krakouer all have the speed and pinpoint disposal that can cut us up. To counteract that we'll need to make sure the likes of Jack Steven and at least one of Smith, Cripps, or Ledger really come on this year, or we may struggle to keep up, IMO.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Very good post APS

Thanks kindly.
I've gotta say, after watching last night, though, that we really will have to improve significantly, if we're to win it this year, unless something goes significantly awry with Collingwood.
Krakouer looks to have given them more potency up forward, which has in turn freed up Leon Davis to go back and possibly re-ignite his career. It's been like adding two, instead of one to their best team, so far. The likes of Sidebottom, Thomas and Dawes look to be continuing to improve, plus there's the addition of Tarrant. They also still look very hungry and don't appear to have any sort of "premiership hangover" at all.
One major thing of concern is the amount of speed and skill they now have, an area that causes us trouble. Thomas, Heath Shaw, Leon Davis down back, and now Krakouer all have the speed and pinpoint disposal that can cut us up. To counteract that we'll need to make sure the likes of Jack Steven and at least one of Smith, Cripps, or Ledger really come on this year, or we may struggle to keep up, IMO.

[saintnick12]

So the pies had no injuries or had planned for a draw? ive never read a single poster bagging RL or who doesnt rate him as either the best or the next best coach in town. There are actually no "perrenial knockers". You just invented them to then place yourself as a sensible defender of RL. So u can be as sensible as you like and pat yourself on the back all day for being so sensible. But conversation on here is usually based on how we can win a flag by 10 goals. It is taken as the default and starting point that we have a good side and a good coach. People post to discuss how we can get better.

so putting your sensible superiority aside. we ask how can an excellent side with an excellent coach get better? saying "Why? Cos Ross will make sure it's so" isnt really a practical or even sensible answer and also is against the entire spirit of these kinds of websites.

we also have to face the possibility that ross goes to carlton next year. hes an outstanding coach and dont be surprised if hes poached at top dollar.

Lyon is contracted til the end of 2012.
Not that he still couldn't be poached, but I think that would be highly unlikely unless this season was a disaster which is also highly unlikely.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/r ... -k9vl.html

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has re-signed a new three-year contract which ties him to the club until the end of the 2012 season.

[Bardon Saint]

Not to mention that he would be a difficult match up. He may help to draw out that 2nd or 3rd man up in a roo marking contest.

I'm still not sure about Gilbert up forward.

He doesn't seem to "read" the ball/play correctly like a natural forward.

Honestly prefer him in the backline, as his run and carry is more important imo.

How many actual games of footy has he played up forward in his life (since he started playing in his mid-late teens)? I'm guessing not that many, so it's surely going to take a bit of time for him to get used to playing that role and to look comfortable there.
In the two GF's (especially the second one) and the quarter he played forward in a game at Etihad earlier in the year, I saw plenty that said to me he's worth an extended trial there. And I mean extended, like 8-10 games, not 2-3. But as I've said several times in the past couple of years, it surely has to be across half forward, where he can use his great assets of pace and endurance, to run someone off their legs, Roo-style. Deep forward surely doesn't suit him as much (being pretty thin) and that's the role he's been mostly playing in the NAB Cup. It could work, but I think we're better off with Roo and Kosi (and or McEvoy, or Rhys) deep and Gilbo outside the 50.
In that game at Etihad, Gilbo was playing across HF, near us and he ran whoever he was on off their legs. He was running around like a hairy goat; up, back, criss-crossing the 50, just seemed to be running non-stop and whoever he was on was lucky to stay within 15m of him, as he ran them ragged.
If he played like that most weeks, which I see no reason why he wouldn't, imagine the improvement over what we got last year from say McQualter, in the same area. Mini was there to "mind space" and tackle and would get about 8 possies. Gilbert could get 8 possies in about a third of the time, his tackling is better, quicker and more ferocious and he'd provide us with a genuine, very mobile, 194cm marking target. Huge up-side. Any goals would be a bonus. His kicking is in-consistent, as we're all aware, but when he hits them well they stay about 5 feet off the ground and get to the target in a big hurry, which is a plus, as is his ability to thump them 55m over the top, to someone like Roo (either running with the flight towards goal, or over the back, in the goalsquare). He's also shown a good ability to read the flight of the ball down back, where he's taken shitloads of marks floating across a pack, or whatever, so I see reason why he wouldn't be able to read it coming into the forward line and float across packs and pluck them there, too (when it moves in there more slowly).
Sure we could do with him down back, but with Raph hopefully back there now, Blake and Fisher looking as good as ever and Gwilt getting better by the month (plus Zac), we can definitely afford to not have Gilbo there. If we need more run out of there, we could even put someone like Ray down on the back flank, or someone like Al Smith, who will hopefully be ready this year.

[SydneySainter]

If it makes anyone feel any better, last round of the NAB challenge series in 09, Port thumped us by over 80 points. We ended up winning our next 19 matches.

[saintnick12]

If it makes anyone feel any better, last round of the NAB challenge series in 09, Port thumped us by over 80 points. We ended up winning our next 19 matches.

Very true. I don't think we even won a game at all in that preseason.
Certainly not time to panic.

[SainterK]

If it makes anyone feel any better, last round of the NAB challenge series in 09, Port thumped us by over 80 points. We ended up winning our next 19 matches.

Exactly...