Caroline Wilson

[stinger]

First up, I thought that we were discussing Caroline Wilson's article? Yes that Louder lady they dragged up carried on a bit, and went over the top.
.

calling that media whore a lady is stretching things a tad.........

[Richter]

The reality is the media give no-one any favours. If they think they can get a story, they will go in for the kill. Right now WE are the story.

Agree with this. St Kilda party club are the flavour of the moment so any little infraction no matter how lame, no matter if it is also happening at other clubs is news. Glad you agree that we are getting selectively targetted. Not because we are St Kilda but because we are the story of the month. Doesn't add up to Saints having a dodgy culture though does it?

How any of us can excuse those 3 young blokes getting out on the tear, when their skipper explicitly said 'no alcohol and curfew' is beyond me? Not the crime of the century but after everything the club had been through, no-one would be more acutely aware of the impact of the bad publicity than the players themselves.

A minor infraction dealt with internally by the club. End of story. Not worth the column inches it has been given. The point is not whether anybody is excusing them (haven't seen anyone on here doing that btw), but whether this sort of minor misdemeanour (which was not against the law) really deserves to be such big news. It doesn't.

We simply don't need to have black and white strong opinions on everything. It's a footy club. Have strong opinions on whether Sammy G and Roo can play in the same forward line..... let most of the rest pass....

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Just had a quick look at the Caroline Wilson article and couldn't bear to read it all.

I lost count of the number of BARE-FACED LIES that bee-ach has put in there. It was nonsensical.

WTF?

Is this called journalism?

[Dr Spaceman]

Just had a quick look at the Caroline Wilson article and couldn't bear to read it all.

I lost count of the number of BARE-FACED LIES that bee-ach has put in there. It was nonsensical.

WTF?

Is this called journalism?

C'mon Kielly, ya gotta admire the fact that she got onto this story while all the other journos missed it. They were all concentrating on things like the little Judd kicking around inside the guts of Lady Judd.

I'm bloody impressed let me tell you. From now on I'm gonna call her Scoop Wilson!

A Walkley Award beckons surely

[Mr Magic]

Here's a post from BigFooty in the thread over there about this topic

I normally do short posts, this time I am making an exception. I am writing this post without looking at the thread because I just want to critique the article a bit. (I think its a third rate article).

"there is one unified conclusion surrounding the Saints and that is that scandal has become their brand." Total BS! Her opinon, not a unified conclusion at all. Branding relates to club values, it can be tainted by scandal, but it is never a brand. (my opinion, just an attempt to sound clever).

"Riewoldt perpetuated the myth of a club under siege. Such paranoia...." Wrong, its not a myth, its how the club and its players feel. (my opinion, its absurd to claim its a myth, especially when the article itself is about promoting the siege and isolation of the club. It is not paranoia when others are out to get you).

"It was disappointing coming after the club - .... - had finally admitted it had a problem.." There was nothing disapointing about it, it did not undermine the knowledge that they have a problem & they dealing with it.

"......to point the public finger so harshly at his teammate Sam Gilbert in an ill-judged press conference was childish...." As Caro would know, the club organised the press conference, and would have given Reiwoldt detailed advice on what to say. Calling him "childish" is .....hmmmm.

"Riewoldt missed an opportunity two nights ago to stand up and take the heat on behalf of the team." The poor bugger has taken nothing but heat, this is more of it. He is trying to unite the team. (my opinion, the article is an attempt to personally undermine the player - perhaps he should move on to a new club for a fresh start, GWS?).

"the facts are that she had sex with two St Kilda footballers - Sam Gilbert who was then 23 and David Armitage who was 21 - when she was 16." Is that illegal? Do they do someting wrong? Was she sexually immature is some way? The statment is made as if they had done something hidiously wrong. If they had sex with Caro, that would have been more unusual than what they did, not illegal either.

"The players met her at a school community initiative last February and claim not to have recognised her less than two months later when they met her after their round-one game in Sydney." The article, carefully, does not accuse them of lying. But it is impiled, otherwise the line would not have been in the piece. They may not have recognised her, different place, clothes on, etc. No way to know one way or the other.

"....but no one has come close to proving the pregnancy was a lie." The whole para is bile directed at a number of people at the Saints, an attack on the basis that these people have somehow to PROVE she was not pregnant. How can they, the person in the position to provide evidence is the girl, not the people Caro directs her attack at.

In the following para she carefully accuses no one of "... quite unhinged behaviour....". What unhinged behaviour? Simply an inflamatory line, without content to back it up.

"The whole sorry saga and the ongoing, if subtle, attempts to discredit the female involved and remove culpability from the males had an all-too-familiar Lara Bingle ring to it." Bugger, I agree with Caro (except "culpability" which implies a responsibility for doing something wrong, I ask, did they do anything ilegal to culpable of?)

The Saints do have to pull together, which is the one valid part of the piece. The rest of the piece is selective (and fake) moral rage and smugness on the part of the author.

I really resent the way the article treats the club, the players in particular. That said, AD knows better and should have done better - thats why he and the AFL gets the $$$$.

What is really staggering to me about this particular post is that it's from a Collingwood supporter - one of the very few over there who is seemingly not interested in baiting our Club.

Frankly, I couldn't have expressed my feelings on the article any better than this.

[Moods]

The reality is the media give no-one any favours. If they think they can get a story, they will go in for the kill. Right now WE are the story.

Agree with this. St Kilda party club are the flavour of the moment so any little infraction no matter how lame, no matter if it is also happening at other clubs is news. Glad you agree that we are getting selectively targetted. Not because we are St Kilda but because we are the story of the month. Doesn't add up to Saints having a dodgy culture though does it?

How any of us can excuse those 3 young blokes getting out on the tear, when their skipper explicitly said 'no alcohol and curfew' is beyond me? Not the crime of the century but after everything the club had been through, no-one would be more acutely aware of the impact of the bad publicity than the players themselves.

A minor infraction dealt with internally by the club. End of story. Not worth the column inches it has been given. The point is not whether anybody is excusing them (haven't seen anyone on here doing that btw), but whether this sort of minor misdemeanour (which was not against the law) really deserves to be such big news. It doesn't.

We simply don't need to have black and white strong opinions on everything. It's a footy club. Have strong opinions on whether Sammy G and Roo can play in the same forward line..... let most of the rest pass....

Richter - not sure I ever said our club has a culture problem. I will have to re-read Caroline Wilson's article again, as I'm not sure she said that either. From what I recall she said we have handled some of these incidents terribly and that Roo's speech resonated of a siege mentality. I am saying that the players need to read the play better. When you are news of the month, you don't put a foot wrong.

If the players involved in NZ had committed such a minor misdemeanor, why were they suspended for 6 weeks and fined the maximum amount allowed under AFL rules? Why did the club see fit to announce it to the world? WE created that news by telling the world about it, so I hardly think we can then bleat on about how the media have been unfair to us. How easy would it have been, especially if the club considered the incident extremely minor, to handle it all internally? Whilst pre-season is going on, pretty sure no-one would have noticed that Stanley Stevens and Cahill were training with sandy and Zac's absence could very easily have been passed off as the ankle injury he's carrying. I don't think the club sees their indiscretion as minor at all. The deliberate mixing of alcohol and prescription drugs is a real concern I reckon. In fact the main difference b/w that and mixing alcohol with speed or cocaine is that one is illegal and the other isn't.

What they did is actually illegal as well and an indictable offence. Taking prescription medication that is not prescribed to you is illegal. These drugs are very dangerous if not taken in the manner they are intended which is why it is illegal. Giving prescription medication to ppl who aren't prescribed it is illegal. See Ben Cousins last year as Exhibit a) as to what can happen when alcohol and too many prescription drugs are mixed.

Possibly if the players had attended a few more lectures on this subject they would have been educated as to the effects of this dangerous mix and also the legalities of what they have done/doing. Like I said - the clubs not perfect, the intentions are generally very good - but I reckon even Ross had a wake-up call last week.[/i]

[Enrico_Misso]

Perhaps Caro remembers back to her teenage days hanging around Richmond as the President's daughter and identifies a bit with young Kim?

[InkerSaint]

What they did is actually illegal as well and an indictable offence. Taking prescription medication that is not prescribed to you is illegal. These drugs are very dangerous if not taken in the manner they are intended which is why it is illegal. Giving prescription medication to ppl who aren't prescribed it is illegal. See Ben Cousins last year as Exhibit a) as to what can happen when alcohol and too many prescription drugs are mixed.

Is that another assumption, or have the club actually come out and said how the medication was obtained?

[matrix]

[Moods]

What they did is actually illegal as well and an indictable offence. Taking prescription medication that is not prescribed to you is illegal. These drugs are very dangerous if not taken in the manner they are intended which is why it is illegal. Giving prescription medication to ppl who aren't prescribed it is illegal. See Ben Cousins last year as Exhibit a) as to what can happen when alcohol and too many prescription drugs are mixed.

Is that another assumption, or have the club actually come out and said how the medication was obtained?

Either way it's illegal InkerSaint. Even if they were all prescribed sleeping pills, deliberately using them in this fashion is actually illegal. Small point I know - but I reckon it's valid when arguing whether what they did was a minor indiscretion. For mine this wasn't a minor indiscretion and by the way the club reacted they don't believe it was either.

BTW - What other assumptions have I made?

[plugger66]

Perhaps Caro remembers back to her teenage days hanging around Richmond as the President's daughter and identifies a bit with young Kim?

Thats the way. Good comeback.

[satchmo]

Either way it's illegal InkerSaint. Even if they were all prescribed sleeping pills, deliberately using them in this fashion is actually illegal.

Is it?

How many drinks make it illegal? If it's the law then there must be a threshold where it becomes illegal

[InkerSaint]

What they did is actually illegal as well and an indictable offence. Taking prescription medication that is not prescribed to you is illegal. These drugs are very dangerous if not taken in the manner they are intended which is why it is illegal. Giving prescription medication to ppl who aren't prescribed it is illegal. See Ben Cousins last year as Exhibit a) as to what can happen when alcohol and too many prescription drugs are mixed.

Is that another assumption, or have the club actually come out and said how the medication was obtained?

Either way it's illegal InkerSaint. Even if they were all prescribed sleeping pills, deliberately using them in this fashion is actually illegal. Small point I know - but I reckon it's valid when arguing whether what they did was a minor indiscretion. For mine this wasn't a minor indiscretion and by the way the club reacted they don't believe it was either.

BTW - What other assumptions have I made?

Are we talking Australian law or New Zealand law?

I think you're grasping at straws trying to trump the legal ramifications here.

[Wrote for Luck]

are we going to be accused of prescribed drug dealing now? hilarious

seems to me 'the fly' is continuing its attempt to validate its piece from last year connecting us to Eagles-like culture.

part III will come during the Lovett trial. it's a colours trilogy but in red, white and black. her last lines certainly allude to it; to be continued...

i'm still peeved with the re-emergence of the Milne/Joey story last year, which felt sidiously manufactured.

make no mistake the knives are out. would love for our Director to load up his sacks and nip some of this sh*t in the bud behind the scenes.

[Moods]

What they did is actually illegal as well and an indictable offence. Taking prescription medication that is not prescribed to you is illegal. These drugs are very dangerous if not taken in the manner they are intended which is why it is illegal. Giving prescription medication to ppl who aren't prescribed it is illegal. See Ben Cousins last year as Exhibit a) as to what can happen when alcohol and too many prescription drugs are mixed.

Is that another assumption, or have the club actually come out and said how the medication was obtained?

Either way it's illegal InkerSaint. Even if they were all prescribed sleeping pills, deliberately using them in this fashion is actually illegal. Small point I know - but I reckon it's valid when arguing whether what they did was a minor indiscretion. For mine this wasn't a minor indiscretion and by the way the club reacted they don't believe it was either.

BTW - What other assumptions have I made?

Are we talking Australian law or New Zealand law?

I think you're grasping at straws trying to trump the legal ramifications here.

Not at all. Victorian Law I'm talking. Certainly wasn't suggesting they should be charged or anything like that. Merely trying to make the point that this 'incident' isn't as trivial as many on here would love to make out. Some seem to think '3 players breaking curfew' is equivalent to 3 blokes out sight seeing and returning to their rooms a few minutes late. They were drunk, they affected by drugs, and they only returned to their room once club officials attended at the venue to retrieve them.

[happy feet]

My experience on journalists and modern journalism is that journalists will pick up on a story - where there is smoke there is fire, but then they usually get the facts wrong. Conjecture creeps in and then personal opinion and then bias. This seems to be modern journalism. Journalists would not be one of the most disliked and distrusted professions if they stuck to reporting the facts.

What disappoints me the most is that our highly paid players seem to be unable to behave themselves. I very much believe in "what goes around comes around" or "karma" as some call it. Perhaps we did not deserve to win those 3 chnaces we had at a flag. Perhaps things will change if we clean our acts up.

I am sick of reading about what some of our players get up to. How about trying something new - behave yourself.

I watched the Doc tribute last night and it brought a tear to the eye. Cowboy was right when he said we have waited too long for another premiership. I think our players need to clean their acts up off the field, in every aspect. Then we may see success.

[Tess]

I am sick of reading about what some of our players get up to. How about trying something new - behave yourself.

I watched the Doc tribute last night and it brought a tear to the eye. Cowboy was right when he said we have waited too long for another premiership. I think our players need to clean their acts up off the field, in every aspect. Then we may see success.

As a Pie supporting visitor here I post this with trepidation.

Legend goes when life at Lexus was all bad news headlines and it turned out some players had lied, Eddie went right off tap at the players and staff. He laid down the law that things are changing and people either stay or go no in between.

This kind of thing starts at the top, from covering things up, to making excuses and so on. The Coach and Football department got on with handling the Footy side of things while the Admin dealt with the problems. If that meant the boys needed a minder when out and about they got it. If they needed a Job it was found for them.
If they needed a housekeeper to clean and cook for them, they got it.
I remember Ed was quoted at one AGM during all the crap that "Nothing good happens after 3.00am". That wasn't a curfew, that was a statement of fact for AFL Footballers .

What I am either seeing or and I'll be honest, maybe it's what I want to see is the St Kilda hierarchy making excuses and blaming everyone else for whats been going on. There is no hint from the leadership that they recognise something whether it be the Club culture or AFL Culture but there is no hint of dealing with the problems. Frankly what your captain said was dumb and IMO shows he is feeling the heat. But why was he allowed by the President or board members to go on stage and say what he did, what control does the Clubs Admin actually have?

Can you Imagine Maxwell going onstage at a Pies AGM without him running past Eddie what he was about to say? I can't.

This is not a post to shite stir ..... it just seems obvious to most non Saints supporters.

[plugger66]

I am sick of reading about what some of our players get up to. How about trying something new - behave yourself.

I watched the Doc tribute last night and it brought a tear to the eye. Cowboy was right when he said we have waited too long for another premiership. I think our players need to clean their acts up off the field, in every aspect. Then we may see success.

As a Pie supporting visitor here I post this with trepidation.

Legend goes when life at Lexus was all bad news headlines and it turned out some players had lied, Eddie went right off tap at the players and staff. He laid down the law that things are changing and people either stay or go no in between.

This kind of thing starts at the top, from covering things up, to making excuses and so on. The Coach and Football department got on with handling the Footy side of things while the Admin dealt with the problems. If that meant the boys needed a minder when out and about they got it. If they needed a Job it was found for them.
If they needed a housekeeper to clean and cook for them, they got it.
I remember Ed was quoted at one AGM during all the crap that "Nothing good happens after 3.00am". That wasn't a curfew, that was a statement of fact for AFL Footballers .

What I am either seeing or and I'll be honest, maybe it's what I want to see is the St Kilda hierarchy making excuses and blaming everyone else for whats been going on. There is no hint from the leadership that they recognise something whether it be the Club culture or AFL Culture but there is no hint of dealing with the problems. Frankly what your captain said was dumb and IMO shows he is feeling the heat. But why was he allowed by the President or board members to go on stage and say what he did, what control does the Clubs Admin actually have?

Can you Imagine Maxwell going onstage at a Pies AGM without him running past Eddie what he was about to say? I can't.

This is not a post to shite stir ..... it just seems obvious to most non Saints supporters.

Firstly i have no idea why any sane person would even want to read or post on another footy forum. It is beyond comprehension. Having said that I do agree that we need to stop blaming others but I do not agree that our Captain and one of our most decorated players ever needs to run things by the rest of the club. He is old and ugly enough to say what he thinks without people at the club giving it the OK. That is what he felt so why not say. Most Saints supporters think it was unlifting and most from people outside our club think it was a stupid thing to say. I think it was a bit silly but I respect Rooy enough for him to have his say.

I dont respect people from other clubs coming on here and saying what their club would have done. Go on your own board and tell them what Rooy should have done but not on here.

[Kate]

I doubt Maxwell could string three coherent words together.

[Tess]

I doubt Maxwell could string three coherent words together.

lmao

[plugger66]

I doubt Maxwell could string three coherent words together.

lmao

You still here? What is wrong with you? No friends on the Collingwood site or do you actually have teeth.

[satchmo]

I doubt Maxwell could string three coherent words together.

lmao

That's a lot of laughing.

[satchmo]

I remember Ed was quoted at one AGM during all the crap that "Nothing good happens after 3.00am"

<<<< That's a pretty well researched statement by ed.

[barks4eva]

Seriously.

A guy dumps a chick.
Guys take photos of each other on a footy trip.
3 fringe players break curfew.
Oh, and Lenny Hayes gets head-butted by a bouncer!


I still can't believe the frenzy over this stuff. It's just ridiculous.

Agree 100%

Sums it up perfectly, biggest media beat up of all time!

FAIR DINKUM

[InkerSaint]

I am sick of reading about what some of our players get up to. How about trying something new - behave yourself.

I watched the Doc tribute last night and it brought a tear to the eye. Cowboy was right when he said we have waited too long for another premiership. I think our players need to clean their acts up off the field, in every aspect. Then we may see success.

As a Pie supporting visitor here I post this with trepidation.

Legend goes when life at Lexus was all bad news headlines and it turned out some players had lied, Eddie went right off tap at the players and staff. He laid down the law that things are changing and people either stay or go no in between.

This kind of thing starts at the top, from covering things up, to making excuses and so on. The Coach and Football department got on with handling the Footy side of things while the Admin dealt with the problems. If that meant the boys needed a minder when out and about they got it. If they needed a Job it was found for them.
If they needed a housekeeper to clean and cook for them, they got it.
I remember Ed was quoted at one AGM during all the crap that "Nothing good happens after 3.00am". That wasn't a curfew, that was a statement of fact for AFL Footballers .

What I am either seeing or and I'll be honest, maybe it's what I want to see is the St Kilda hierarchy making excuses and blaming everyone else for whats been going on. There is no hint from the leadership that they recognise something whether it be the Club culture or AFL Culture but there is no hint of dealing with the problems. Frankly what your captain said was dumb and IMO shows he is feeling the heat. But why was he allowed by the President or board members to go on stage and say what he did, what control does the Clubs Admin actually have?

Can you Imagine Maxwell going onstage at a Pies AGM without him running past Eddie what he was about to say? I can't.

This is not a post to shite stir ..... it just seems obvious to most non Saints supporters.

I can't imagine why this person would bother posting here except to stir the pot, and I'm yet to be convinced otherwise.

But let's start with Eddie McGuire's take on the situation:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/afl ... 6000792297

What drove them to do so is the big question. In most cases in my years in football, it is in spite of the club culture, not because of it.

Not exactly in agreement with Caro there, is he?

And if you're looking for action from the Saints, you can read about it here:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... 1ahr3.html

Although again, I have no idea why you would bother.