Tough 9 Months...

[rodgerfox]

You obviously are just making up that last comment. You wouldnt have a clue about the mental state of the others and unless BJ surveyed them before he spoke neither would he and considering you said the person who made the comment played well his mental state seemed OK.

<sigh>


50 years old. Fair dinkum unbelievable.

[plugger66]

You obviously are just making up that last comment. You wouldnt have a clue about the mental state of the others and unless BJ surveyed them before he spoke neither would he and considering you said the person who made the comment played well his mental state seemed OK.

<sigh>


50 years old. Fair dinkum unbelievable.

As I said making up the comment. You obviosly have no idea and that response proves it. You are clearly one very sad unit.

[evertonfc]

An absence of decent teams give me hope we'll again fall into the top four.

From there, anything can happen.

I didn't think we had the cattle in 2009 or 2010 to get as far as we did, which shows strength in our game plan.

Howeve, it's a game plan that cuts very fine margins. We'll have to be at our very best - for a third straight year - if we're going to win it.

It's going to be incredibly hard. Collingwood don't have to improve that much to stay where they are - their plan is an evolution of ours - and I'm not convinced we can catch up.

After the split round, we played six halves of footy against them and were mashed up in five out of six. It's up to us to bridge the gap but I don't see it coming.

As good as Steven, Stanley and the other kids might be, we'll be relying on a lot of other teams failing to fire and failing to improve.

Hard to beat at home, however, so top four isn't beyond us. Do we want it enough though after all that has happened? And can we win one that matters? We're 0/3 - not a good sign.

[SainterK]

Can we expand on why we think our rivals perhaps may be halted somewhat, for example, I don't think Collingwood have the 'depth' pushing for selection in 2011.

If people are concerned about our ruck stocks, well they have only Wood as a legit alternative to the Jolly/Brown combo.

I think they will be very good again, but I think the depth is something that may change things a little.

Lockyer, Fraser, Medhurst, Anthony...no longer.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Rarely does a team lose grand finals two years in a row and then wins the following year.

No doubt a stats nerd will point out a case where it has happend....

I'm your nerd...

The Filth did it in 1927, after losing the previous 2.

They actually ended up winning 4 in a row, after losing 2.

The Bombers did it in 1949 after losing 2, however they had won it in 46.

And the Hawks did the same thing as above in 1986, after winning it in 1983.

PS the Bombers lost the Grand Final in 1947
In 1948 they played a Draw with Melbourne and should have won (they kicked 7.27!) but then got thrashed the following week. This would have been heart-breaking.

They then won the NEXT TWO FLAGS 1949 1950

This could be Saints in 2009-2010-2011-2012.

[Leo.J]

Can we expand on why we think our rivals perhaps may be halted somewhat, for example, I don't think Collingwood have the 'depth' pushing for selection in 2011.

If people are concerned about our ruck stocks, well they have only Wood as a legit alternative to the Jolly/Brown combo.

I think they will be very good again, but I think the depth is something that may change things a little.

Lockyer, Fraser, Medhurst, Anthony...no longer.

I agree about depth, however the filth have better kids, who will probably improve.

Sidebottom is only 19!

We need some of our kids to improve enough to force some of our senior players out, otherwise we will go backwards imo.

[saint66au]

Can we expand on why we think our rivals perhaps may be halted somewhat, for example, I don't think Collingwood have the 'depth' pushing for selection in 2011.

If people are concerned about our ruck stocks, well they have only Wood as a legit alternative to the Jolly/Brown combo.

I think they will be very good again, but I think the depth is something that may change things a little.

Lockyer, Fraser, Medhurst, Anthony...no longer.

I agree about depth, however the filth have better kids, who will probably improve.

Sidebottom is only 19!

We need some of our kids to improve enough to force some of our senior players out, otherwise we will go backwards imo.

Yep..this is a crucial factor I agree. We need to see the sort of improvement in out 2/3/4th year players that we saw only in a 6th year (Gwilt) in 2010

having said that, everything went right for the Pies in '10. Pretty much put theur best 22 on the park every week. Guys like O'Bree/Fraser/Anthony couldnt get a game and their kids all fired to the extent that blokes like Neon Leon could be carried in an attempt to find form. THey just kept on winning

2011? Lets see how they go if Swan/Maxwell/Pendles/Didak are on the sidelines for extended periods. Lets see how the kids cope with the Premiership hangover

A flag doesnt exempt you from question marks for the following year. Ask any Hawks fan

[The Linton Street Flash]

Goddard's reaction and comments immediately after GF1 were a worry.

He said something along the lines of 'this time we gave it our all and our best shot, and once again it wasn't good enough.'


The players' reactions after the Geelong GF loss were more along the lines of 'we let that one slip but if we get another crack we won't let that happen again.'


BJ's comments were almost those of resignation. And clearly the performance the following week supported that.

Maxwell said 'it's a joke'

People say stuff.

Maxwell was referring to the replay. Not their performance.


You're right though, people say stuff and it may mean nothing. But it worried me at the time, with that mindset how they'd come up the following week and do it all again at that level. And they didn't.

If they have thoughts of 'we did our best and it wasn't good enough' hanging in the back of their minds, then it's going to be very hard to truly believe they've got what it takes to win a flag.

Yeah people do say stuff.

However even if he meant that it needs to be taken in the context of 2010. Doesn't mean BJ or any of the others don't believe they can improve and have a real shot at 2011.

All teams have to think that way otherwise 15 of them may as well not bother going around this year on the basis their best last year wasn't good enough (GC can also take the year off in the knowledge their best won't be good enough )

My concern about his comments were that they were stark from everything we'd heard for the past 2-3 years.

We'd been hearing all along about 'our best footy is good enough' and 'if we play Saints footy we'll win' etc. etc.

This time, he outright conceded that our best wasn't good enough.


Again, it may have just been words. But to me, it may also have been cracks appearing in the team's self belief.

When that happens, you're rooted.

But lets be honest RF - you're the kind of guy who goes diving at the Barrier Reef and all he see's is fish pooh and dead coral.

The kind of guy who stands in a forest and complains about the lack of space and the deafening roar of leaves

The kind of guy who gets served a banquet and complains that the food has made the plates dirty..

Seriously you must be the most miserable pr@#k i have ever come across.

Your sole purpose is to come on this forum, show everyone how clever you are by bringing them down to your level of misery.

Go back to the grubby little corner of whatever loser pub it is that you crawled out of. and give us all a break

Here's one positive that you can't deny - you're where ever you are and we're over here - Thank F*%k for that!

[saint patrick]

...no I'm not starting a thread on pregnancy, I'm talking about the season ahead.

I know this is a big call but IMO this season is going to be the toughest in our history to date.

I don’t think the pressure on the club has ever been as intense.

For the first time in our history we have lost 2 GF’s in a row, and both were ours for the taking.

We are now recognised nationally more for our off field scandals rather than our on field performances.

The players this year will cop it like they never have before... our bubble will need to be double insulated; it’s going to be a cold, cold winter outside of it for anyone representing the club.

And as far as a supporter goes, we’ve got nothing…

Any discussions relating to footy with opposition fans ends in frustration and anger…It’s not like they’re short on ammunition atm.

And unfortunately most of it is more or less true…

While I view this as a positive to a degree we are now no longer everyone’s second favourite team (due to pity), most opposition fans hate our guts, and revel in our failures on and off the field…unbelievably most of my mates even Carlton supporters hate us more than the Filth.

The only positive outcome this year for us would be a premiership.

A premiership would silence all the critics, and heal all the wounds of the past.

All that said I’m hoping…no, actually praying that the past couple of years will give us a steely resolve required to win a premiership, rather than be our undoing.

Maybe the recent scandal, might give our boys an ‘us against them’ attitude, galvanising the group, rather than dividing them like most opposition fans are wanting.

Hopefully the mental anguish that some of the boys have gone through might give them a mental edge that only mental hardship can give you.

Some of our boys have been humiliated on a scale that no one else except them could imagine.

Maybe the fear of failure on the footy field that plagues some players may seem insignificant compared to what they’ve been through.

IMO we have not been mentally and physically hard enough over the last couple of seasons.

Usually the teams who are mentally hard are quite often physically hard also; the two usually go hand in hand.

So while all this is wishful thinking there is a chance that out of this debacle some good may come.

We may hopefully see a Rooey and an NDS with a harder edge.

IMO Rooey and Dal with a bit of mongrel, and a harder mental edge could be exactly what we need.

Right now the only guys that truly fit that bill are Lenny and BJ.

Anyhow enough hypothesizing, this year will be tough for all, players and fans alike.

We are going to see what our boys are really made of over the next 9 months.

This season will really separate the men from the boys.

Enshrine this post...post of year already and will not be topped..sums up the year ahead with ruthless acuracy..its now or never boys...kill or be killed..this season will define our club for alltime ;-/

[thejiggingsaint]

I've never felt so flat about an upcoming season. I will go to each game and barrack for the side but as far as any expectation of another shot at the flag? My heart says it is possible. History and reality tell me otherwise. I look forward to simply going to the footy in 2011 its as simple as that.

[StevieSaint]

We will finish top 4. Question is, what other teams are going to challenge for the flag? Cats I doubt, Hawks maybe, bulldogs are done, blues no way, and i don't think any other teams will make a massive enough improvement to make a grand final so that leaves us and Collingwood. I think we will make the Grand Final again because I don't think any other team is good enough. Collingwood whether you like it or not dominated all year and talking to everyone else Collingwood supporters or not you would think will do well again. Now that means come Grand Final day we will either sneak a win and catch Collingwood on a slightly off day or we will get pumped again. Unless our bottom 5-6 players can improve singificantly. We can still do it if things go right for us and luck and footballs bounce our way...

That's my 2 cents but what the hell do I know.

A couple of balls that could have bounced our way and kicks along the ground that didn't happen and we would have gone back to back...

[linmarnic]

I feel very positive about 2011.
The players are professionals and will give it their best shot. Are they good enough though? Yes they are; they already proved that in the last two years. If not for a lucky toe poke/goal that should have been a point and then last year that unlucky nightmare of a bounce we would have been lookng for a third this year.
The team has not changed, if anything it is better from a playing list perspective. I don't believe in the mental scaring suggestions. It has been done bfore after 2 GF losses and no reason why the boys cant do it.
With a tweeking of the game plan, younger players comming through and a bit of overdue luck, 2011 will be a year of great celebration. Have some faith!

[Moods]

My post makes complete sense to what you posted so yes I was responding to your post.

How did you go following the Saints in the 80's?

??

I was 5 in the 80s, so I went about aswell as a 5yo kid would go following the footy.

Why do you ask? What does that have to do with my posts?
`

Didnt have any birthdays in the 80's. Very strange. Anyway my question has nothing to do with any of your posts but then again what does BJ saying after a game have to do with this thread. I must say I find it funny that what BJ said worried you but when someone said BJ did well in the GF you mentioned something like the team didnt though. Unless BJ went and surveyed all the players before he spoke surely he was only talking for himself and as such it didnt seem to effect his game the following week.

?

This thread is suggesting that it will be a tough year mentally for the team.

It mentioned the bubble, and the fact that the players had been able to stay focussed on the prize throughout last year's issues and following a GF loss.

It's suggests that this year will be much harder.


I raised BJ's comments because I felt they showed chinks in the armour of a guy and a team that had seemed to have been inprenitable in terms of their drive and mental state.

Obviously that was only my take on his comments. My interpretation of them.

They worried me as as a supporter I was ready to go again when that siren blew. I thought we had them.

When the microphone went in front of BJ's face I was expecting to hear something along the lines of what most Saints fans were feeling. But instead I heard a deflated and 'unconvinced' guy.

I thought in the context of this thread, it's fair to add this to the discussion.



As for your reply, I have no idea how it fits in.

So what did you think Rodg when you heard Maxwell's comments straight after the game? Personally it sounded like a bloke who was frustrated and didn't even want to come back the following week to play. Words after a game like that can be interpreted any way you like. BJ HAD just given his all. All players would have been feeling a certain amount of frustration and deflation after that draw. I reckon you're reading waaaaay too much into things.

To say the pies were off their game is ridiculous. They had far more inside 50's, which often suggests they are pumping the ball fwd. Against the cats the previous week they scored, b/c the cats don't have the same defensive mechanisms as us. THe pies came out pumped in that 1st 1/4 in the 1st GF - which is also often an indicator of the players mental alertness. Missed opportunities? Cloke is fragile in front of goal as is Riewoldt sometimes. Roo missed a very gettable goal in the 1st quarter and I think the third. THomas and Blair froze up in the third 1/4, and in the words of Collingwood players after that game, - 'They had never been put under so much pressure in their life.' THey're not the words of a team that believed they had played poorly.

You've been listening to way too many Collingwood supporters I reckon re GF1 instead of using your head.

[saint_winston]

My post makes complete sense to what you posted so yes I was responding to your post.

How did you go following the Saints in the 80's?

??

I was 5 in the 80s, so I went about aswell as a 5yo kid would go following the footy.

Why do you ask? What does that have to do with my posts?
`

Didnt have any birthdays in the 80's. Very strange. Anyway my question has nothing to do with any of your posts but then again what does BJ saying after a game have to do with this thread. I must say I find it funny that what BJ said worried you but when someone said BJ did well in the GF you mentioned something like the team didnt though. Unless BJ went and surveyed all the players before he spoke surely he was only talking for himself and as such it didnt seem to effect his game the following week.

?

This thread is suggesting that it will be a tough year mentally for the team.

It mentioned the bubble, and the fact that the players had been able to stay focussed on the prize throughout last year's issues and following a GF loss.

It's suggests that this year will be much harder.


I raised BJ's comments because I felt they showed chinks in the armour of a guy and a team that had seemed to have been inprenitable in terms of their drive and mental state.

Obviously that was only my take on his comments. My interpretation of them.

They worried me as as a supporter I was ready to go again when that siren blew. I thought we had them.

When the microphone went in front of BJ's face I was expecting to hear something along the lines of what most Saints fans were feeling. But instead I heard a deflated and 'unconvinced' guy.

I thought in the context of this thread, it's fair to add this to the discussion.



As for your reply, I have no idea how it fits in.

So what did you think Rodg when you heard Maxwell's comments straight after the game? Personally it sounded like a bloke who was frustrated and didn't even want to come back the following week to play. Words after a game like that can be interpreted any way you like. BJ HAD just given his all. All players would have been feeling a certain amount of frustration and deflation after that draw. I reckon you're reading waaaaay too much into things.

To say the pies were off their game is ridiculous. They had far more inside 50's, which often suggests they are pumping the ball fwd. Against the cats the previous week they scored, b/c the cats don't have the same defensive mechanisms as us. THe pies came out pumped in that 1st 1/4 in the 1st GF - which is also often an indicator of the players mental alertness. Missed opportunities? Cloke is fragile in front of goal as is Riewoldt sometimes. Roo missed a very gettable goal in the 1st quarter and I think the third. THomas and Blair froze up in the third 1/4, and in the words of Collingwood players after that game, - 'They had never been put under so much pressure in their life.' THey're not the words of a team that believed they had played poorly.

You've been listening to way too many Collingwood supporters I reckon re GF1 instead of using your head.

it was a great effort to get back into GF1 after being absolutely dominated in the 1st half. we just hung in and gradually clawed back into the contest. but i am sick of hearing us whinge and whine about a bounce this way or that at the death

we should not kid ourselves about where we stand relative to collingwood - if cloke kicks straight at the end of the 2nd quarter they are 6 goals up and off and gone at 1/2 time. there would have been no way back. same with their missed shots in the 3rd quarter. and we also need to remember that when BJ goaled to put us in front in the last quarter there was what still 7 odd mins to play? we appeared to have all the momentum to go on and win the game but collingwood kicked the only other goal of the contest from that point on and really had all the best chances to score apart from the last 60 secs. so they were good enough to arrest the momentum swing and then turn it back in their favour

bottom line - collingwood have smashed us in 5 of the last 6 halves of football that we have played against them and we are kidding ourselves if we think we are anywhere near that level. hence we need to change our methods significantly if we want to try and compete with them in sept 2011 because barring injuries they are going to tbe the benchmark again. i don't want to make it to the big day only to go in hoping that collingwood have a bd day again. i want to go in thinking that if we play our best we can beat them regardless of what they serve up. right now i don't believe that we are anywhere near that point

[linmarnic]

I think they were the best last year but they were not sinificantly better than us. Everything went their way last year both on and off the field. We had issues both on and off the field all year. The 2 games they beat us in, ok smashed, us in, we had a less than full strength side. In the first game Roo was on the come back and we were trying our best to bring im into the game with one eye for the finals. In the second, Dal and Gram were carrying injuies into the game and the whole team was just unable to recover from the prevous week. Armo and Steven were injured too, and could not come in for Dal or Gram.
Yes they were better and we do need to find a way to improve and also fnd a way to beat their game plan and full frontal all ground press, but I believe we only need some tweeking as the gap is not significant. Sometimes I am amazed that despite the on and off the ground issues the boys game so close. I am really proud of them and have faith in Ross and the boys that they will improve and find a way to prevail this year.

[starsign]

OP.....

For the first time in our history we have lost 2 GF’s in a row, and both were ours for the taking.

in actual fact we lost Grand Finals in successive seasons ...

we lost one, drew one then lost another one ....
and came within a bees dick of winning the draw after coming back from the dead in between those losses .....AND the initial loss could have gone either way for mine

I know we lost V the Cats and there is no second prize , but were a bit stiff in a great attempt and then followed up with the amazing draw ...... maybe the mental pressure of those two grand finals in a row had a bit to do with not turning up the following week ???

doesn't add much to the argument/discussion but maybe another way of looking at it!!

Anyway I'm all for keeping thinking along positive lines and I certainly hope the boys continue to be steeled and very motivated to straighten the record book this year

GOSAINTERS

[HardSaint]

=

The Filth did it in 1927, after losing the previous 2.

They actually ended up winning 4 in a row, after losing 2.

The Bombers did it in 1949 after losing 2, however they had won it in 46.

And the Hawks did the same thing as above in 1986, after winning it in 1983.

you may say I'm a dreamer.....

[saint_winston]

don't get me wrong i'm thinking very positively about the season ahead as well. i think we have the talent capable of adapting to a modified game plan and maybe genuinely challenging again this sept/oct. i just hope that those that make the big calls are realistic in their assessment of where we're at and are not blinded to reality by how close we got to stealing the 1st GF

[Teflon]

don't get me wrong i'm thinking very positively about the season ahead as well. i think we have the talent capable of adapting to a modified game plan and maybe genuinely challenging again this sept/oct. i just hope that those that make the big calls are realistic in their assessment of where we're at and are not blinded to reality by how close we got to stealing the 1st GF

I agree which ultimately leaves you with the question:

Where is our imporvement going to come from?

You would estimate ALL sides youngsters will get better - will ours develop enough to truly push out "role players" aka Mqualter/Eddy types and take us to the next level by DEMANDING a spot?....can a McEvoy really hold down number 1 ruck for much of the year...(big worry for me...he looks like treacle......and I like the kid..)

Will our coaching/game plan have the flexibility that enables a greater balance between when to defend and when to pile on score board pressure??? - Is Lyon fair dinkum when he talks of more exciting footy....or is he selling memberships in Jan?

I read elsewhere on here also, and I agree, that we also let the mid-tier players off the hook - in this category I wonder can Gram, Ray, Peake, Dawsons, Kosi et al (who have played enough football by now) step it up a gear to have consistent, impact?

CAN Dal Santo/Montagna truly step up aka Dasiy Thomas in a big game in September and dominate to take the heat off Hayes or the now mounting pressure on Goddard???

Can any of our new recruits - especially the seasoned one like a Gamble/Pollo, improve the side and demand a spot weekly?

Lots of questions but to me these ARE the areas we can get better - outside of natural development which all sides will claim to varying degrees. Still doubts on us mentally, but I'm not a believer in the "sex scandal derails saints season" cr@p........these guys are professionals and I reckon they move on and focus quickly. Nup, for us we are approaching the time where we will start to legitimately ask..."can this group win a flag - is it good enough" and if the answers no, then into the rebuild wilderness we wander with lots of "what ifs" and "ball just bounced the wrong way..." stories....

I think we are good enough - I truly hope the hunger burns and is there, I said at the end of 2009 that IF we make the 2010 GF NOTHING would stop us.....I believed it.....I was wrong and so yep I can understand the cautious optimism this season because nagging away in the back of my mind is that no sides makes GF's forever..........the wheel turns.

[Teflon]

deleted.

[SainterK]

Goddard's reaction and comments immediately after GF1 were a worry.

He said something along the lines of 'this time we gave it our all and our best shot, and once again it wasn't good enough.'


The players' reactions after the Geelong GF loss were more along the lines of 'we let that one slip but if we get another crack we won't let that happen again.'


BJ's comments were almost those of resignation. And clearly the performance the following week supported that.

Bump

I'd like to apologise to Rodgerfox / Johnny Member about debating this particular comment way back when, it appears he picked up on something in what BJ said that I wasn't willing to acknowledge at the time.

BJ obviously has struggled with the notion that their best wasn't good enough, and mentally found it hard to reset.

Hopefully he can turn it around, hopefully now there has been some acknowledgement that it's the case, we will see him restored somewhat.

I have to say though, good emotional pickup there.

[plugger66]

Goddard's reaction and comments immediately after GF1 were a worry.

He said something along the lines of 'this time we gave it our all and our best shot, and once again it wasn't good enough.'


The players' reactions after the Geelong GF loss were more along the lines of 'we let that one slip but if we get another crack we won't let that happen again.'


BJ's comments were almost those of resignation. And clearly the performance the following week supported that.

Bump

I'd like to apologise to Rodgerfox / Johnny Member about debating this particular comment way back when, it appears he picked up on something in what BJ said that I wasn't willing to acknowledge at the time.

BJ obviously has struggled with the notion that their best wasn't good enough, and mentally found it hard to reset.

Hopefully he can turn it around, hopefully now there has been some acknowledgement that it's the case, we will see him restored somewhat.

I have to say though, good emotional pickup there.

Absolute crap. What BJ said has nothing to do with now. We hadnt even lost the GF then.

[Con Gorozidis]

honestly if that was goddard responce then i reckon he nned to watch the first granny again ... there were many area we could improve on in GF1 in the end our second half was strong but playing catch up all day doesnt say to me that they did it all .... pleanty of room for improvment

good point. not like they played perfect footy. ok they had decent effort. but probably only played 10 good quarters all of last year. skills execution and goal kicking for starters. so bj neednt have been too disheartened.
farking loads we could do better.