Elshaug Appointed Recruiting Manager

[saintsRrising]

I don't think Lyon is content with being average.

I think Lyon is scared witless of being average, to the point that he's terrified of taking risks at the selection table. .

I think it is more that Lyon had in mind a very disciplined gameplan, and that this biased him to players that coud enact it.

asa poster has just noted in this thread though...GP 2011 will be twaeked and this wil see some changes.

IMO some of those changes were meant to be rolled out in GP2010....but Lovett "falilng over" and Gram being injured for most of the year meant that he did not have the paey linebreakers that to me he clearly wants as part of his remodelled gameplan.

He consistently selects mediocre players over emerging young talent. It would have to be frustrating for a recruiter to see all your best selections consistently passed over. Particularly when the players getting a game are then promptly delisted at seasons end.

I think he has been stymied somewhat though. Steven looked capable of grabbing a place when brought in this year...but then developed OP.


In 2011 I think the wheel will turn somewhat with more younger players being given a chance.


Steven: The young player was likely to become a regular.
Armo: who will be desperate to nail a spot. Let's hope he can at last have an injury free pre-season.

Stanley: Probably the player that coul make the biggest difference, but 2011, may just bea bit too early for him physically.

Smith: ould be the quiet achiever this year.

Cripps; A solid pre-season and NAB may see he given a solid bursts of senior games.

Walsh: If he continues his rate of improvement then he may well be given his chance. More so if Koisi continues to disapoint.

[SaintPav]

I don't think Lyon is content with being average.

I think Lyon is scared witless of being average, to the point that he's terrified of taking risks at the selection table. .

I think it is more that Lyon had in mind a very disciplined gameplan, and that this biased him to players that coud enact it.

asa poster has just noted in this thread though...GP 2011 will be twaeked and this wil see some changes.

IMO some of those changes were meant to be rolled out in GP2010....but Lovett "falilng over" and Gram being injured for most of the year meant that he did not have the paey linebreakers that to me he clearly wants as part of his remodelled gameplan.

He consistently selects mediocre players over emerging young talent. It would have to be frustrating for a recruiter to see all your best selections consistently passed over. Particularly when the players getting a game are then promptly delisted at seasons end.

I think he has been stymied somewhat though. Steven looked capable of grabbing a place when brought in this year...but then developed OP.


In 2011 I think the wheel will turn somewhat with more younger players being given a chance.


Steven: The young player was likely to become a regular.
Armo: who will be desperate to nail a spot. Let's hope he can at last have an injury free pre-season.

Stanley: Probably the player that coul make the biggest difference, but 2011, may just bea bit too early for him physically.

Smith: ould be the quiet achiever this year.

Cripps; A solid pre-season and NAB may see he given a solid bursts of senior games.

Walsh: If he continues his rate of improvement then he may well be given his chance. More so if Koisi continues to disapoint.

woopee

[The OtherThommo]

I take it by your disdainful dismissal of all younger prospects, St.Sponge, you regard us as no chance of progress or performance from here until some much later time.

Well, to put not to finer point on it, why in the freak are you here bothering? "Woopee", or however you spelt it, signals a complete and utter disrepect for a club that has gone from being a flukey rump, at best, to a universally respected outfit.

I'm not automatically moved to provide a counter to your moaning, however I have a solid belief that we will progress, and a number of the youngsters will play vital roles, over time:
- Smith will play often next year. He was clearly given a development year in '10, after an interrupted first pre-season. His form was sound, his adaptabilty good, he's quick and has good hands. Some faith in his future is not beyond the bounds of reasoable.
- Stanley is a prospect of the highest order. What, fourth year for a 200+cm athlete, and you say "woopee". Surely, you jest?
-Li'l Jack - going fine until OP. What, now he's no hope?
-The Oirish. What, don't think he'll improve from his first season to his second? An early plateau, eh?
- Simpkin's just another no good product of the Falcons, eh? Form no good at VFL level. Of course, 'woopee'.
-Winwar's first year with us obviously showed he has no future, so why do we bother?
- Lynch, Heyne, all useless, been in the system for 5 minutes, obviously have no future. I mean, shyte, when was the last time a player took more than 1 and bit seasons to show he might have a future?
-obviously we drafted badly again. None of the recent batch have any future, clearly. Why did we bother?

Clearly we don't have a system to extract the best from people. Obviously we are so poorly run these days the recent ladder elevations are no more than a statistical abnormality.

And, if you reckon I might be a tad p'eed off with whinging, moaning carping, bitching sad sacks, with bugger all idea of where we've come from, to where we stand now, then you're a good judge.

[PJ]

Back on topic

I think TE may actually have a reasonable eye for talent. Not a bad call to develop a recruiter out of your own system rather than to look at everyone else's. He'll certainly have his work cut out for him with the changes of system to be introduced next year.

[WinnersOnly]

I think some of Peakes drafting has been Very Good eg Stanley will be a gem, but others like Lynch have been disappointing.

What I think has been unfair on him is the number of Draft picks traded away for mostly 'also rans'. I also get the impression that most years he has been told to target player types eg Ruckman etc.

This has caused him to take a player like McEvoy when they are obviously far more talented players left in the draft. If you think I am down on McEvoy then yes I dont rate him. I think he is another version of Steven King and the current game is far too fast for lumbering ruckman with no leap.

Having said the above IMO Peakes selection at this years draft of midfielders look really good!

In any event lets hope that Elshaugh @Trout can take our drafting to the next level.

[saintsRrising]

I also get the impression that most years he has been told to target player types eg Ruckman etc.

This has caused him to take a player like McEvoy when they are obviously far more talented players left in the draft. .

Your impression on why Ben was taken would be incorrect:

http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsartic ... fault.aspx

Lyon said the decision to exercise pick 9 on McEvoy was an easy one.

“It wasn’t about for needs, it was about the best player, and they (St Kilda recruiters John Peake and John Beveridge) felt that at pick 9 he was the best player,â€

[WinnersOnly]

I also get the impression that most years he has been told to target player types eg Ruckman etc.

This has caused him to take a player like McEvoy when they are obviously far more talented players left in the draft. .

Your impression on why Ben was taken would be incorrect:

http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsartic ... fault.aspx

Lyon said the decision to exercise pick 9 on McEvoy was an easy one.

“It wasn’t about for needs, it was about the best player, and they (St Kilda recruiters John Peake and John Beveridge) felt that at pick 9 he was the best player,â€

[saintsRrising]

I think with what was known at the time that Ben wasa reasonable pick.


However there is agood argument to not take ruckmen in the draft as kids, as they are too unpredictable, and to instead only draft/trade for ruckmen who are a bit older and are more ofa known propostion.

I woud however not rule out Ben from making it...but 2011 he would seem to be destined to be back up for Gardiner and the new interchange rule (not known in 2007) may see him squeezed out of the 22.

[ace]

[
Perhaps. The other possibility is that he has been moved to the vacant position of list manager, although this is unlikely. .

Would seem very unlikely since the club is actively advertising the position.

See http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=67323

Advertisng the role means sweet FA if they are just going through a process.

Ok, can you explain then why Elshaug's role was not like advertised?

Also have you actually read the job advert?

Peake would not meet those requirements. If it was written for him, they would match it to him.

They are after a legal eagle with contracts experience which is not Peake.

They need someone who can negotiate with player managers to retain all required players without giving away the entire salary cap.
Only then can the Saints contemplate picking up valuable players from other clubs.

[ace]

I think with what was known at the time that Ben wasa reasonable pick.


However there is agood argument to not take ruckmen in the draft as kids, as they are too unpredictable, and to instead only draft/trade for ruckmen who are a bit older and are more ofa known propostion.

I woud however not rule out Ben from making it...but 2011 he would seem to be destined to be back up for Gardiner and the new interchange rule (not known in 2007) may see him squeezed out of the 22.

Sydney and recently Collingwood have sucessfully relied on poaching proven ruckmen from other clubs but they had sufficient room left in their salary caps to be able to offer the big bucks to get a proven ruckman.
St Kilda seems to be always jammed hard up against the salary cap ceiling.

[vacuous space]

St Kilda seems to be always jammed hard up against the salary cap ceiling.

2012 Roo goes on the veterans list, doesn't he? Sandilands?

[saintsRrising]

Sydney and recently Collingwood have sucessfully relied on poaching proven ruckmen from other clubs but they had sufficient room left in their salary caps to be able to offer the big bucks to get a proven ruckman.
St Kilda seems to be always jammed hard up against the salary cap ceiling.

The price of finishing high is being near the salary cap limit.
The Pies will be next year as well....and that is after losing Fraser, Anthony etc.

As for proven ruckmen...all the top teams had their No 1 ruckman from another club in 2010.

Pies Jolly
Saints Gardiner
Cats Ottens
Dogs Hudson

[SainterK]

Oh, has everyone despaired of Ben making it?

[saintsRrising]

Oh, has everyone despaired of Ben making it?

No...but we are looking at 2011.

Gardi = first choice.

New interchange rules may mean that it is Kosi or Ben.

[saintsRrising]

Back on Peake.

2010 = two hour commute

2011 would have added at least 30 minutes onto that..maybe 45 = straw that broke the camels back perhaps

[saintbrat]

Back on Peake.

2010 = two hour commute

2011 would have added at least 30 minutes onto that..maybe 45 = straw that broke the camels back perhaps

Big factor I'd say and double it for the return trip

that's 5 hours on the road- and no shorter taking the ferry, although much more pleasant.

Good Luck Peaky.

[WinnersOnly]

Back on Peake.

2010 = two hour commute

2011 would have added at least 30 minutes onto that..maybe 45 = straw that broke the camels back perhaps

If he wasn't prepared to move then he obviously didn't want the job badly enough - it was time for him to move on.