Elshaug Appointed Recruiting Manager

[stinger]

There was a surprise for St Kilda last month when it found out Jamie Cripps suffered diabetes, after it picked him with its first choice in the national draft.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/r ... 5967893605

therein may lie your answer

[saintsRrising]

It's just sad that through stubborness and ego I can see one of the best groups of talent I've ever seen being wasted.

Yes without Lyon the players would be free to be watching the GF each year rather than actually playing in them....


PS: Best groups of talent ever seen being wasted????? Nah go back 5 years....

[saintsRrising]

That was apparently becuase has was an egomaniac that no one could work with who was too stubborn to change his methods.


Just seemed odd that the same discussion - albeit the opposing view from the same people, is taking place 4 years later!

Ah the RF filter...and history rewriting

Lyon not change methods and football department structures?

You may have missed it RF..but the football department has just been restructured yet again at present.

There are not just new people (in some cases)...but roles have changed as well.


On the field...gameplan and structures have evolved and changed each year. They will again in 2011 too.

So " your too stubborn to change mantra" is full of holes.

King, Harvey, Elshaug...would never come back and work for Lyon. Ooops...all three just did!!!!!!!!!!!!

Misson....surely he would not work with Lyon again. Ooops he swapped clubs to rejoin him...

Peter Berbakov surely could not work with Lyon a second time? Ooops he is.


Lyon has a high standard...and works his assistants hard.

Some have moved on...but many who have worked, or played with him in the past have chosen to work with him again..

SOS..... etc..

This all exposes RF's inferences that no one can work with Lyon as being without proper substance as GOOD people have chosen to work with Lyon on repeated occasions.

Some to have been found wanting and moved on. ie Peake. Royal wanted a more senior coaching role and Lyon preferred others for this and so he moved on as well. Some no doubt want a break after the frenitic pace.

RF having a go at Lyon in this way and comparing him to GT is quite laughable. GT left blood on the ground wherever he went.

[InkerSaint]

The quotes are simply there to emphasise inference. But I concede this is unnecessary. Nobody reading this actually believes you have a reputable source.

??

Now it's a "reputable source"??

Care to elaborate on what you're talking about here?

As if there is a quantitative difference.

The only part of my post being responded to is the part that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Circle Jerk Extraordinaire.

[rodgerfox]

The quotes are simply there to emphasise inference. But I concede this is unnecessary. Nobody reading this actually believes you have a reputable source.

??

Now it's a "reputable source"??

Care to elaborate on what you're talking about here?

As if there is a quantitative difference.

The only part of my post being responded to is the part that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Circle Jerk Extraordinaire.

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me, and used the term "reputable source" also in reference to me.

Care to elaborate why??

[InkerSaint]

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me, and used the term "reputable source" also in reference to me.

Care to elaborate why??

Like a monkey with his hand in a jar, unable to work out how to get the peanuts out.

Care to explain what you're on about?

No?

I didn't think so.

[rodgerfox]

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me, and used the term "reputable source" also in reference to me.

Care to elaborate why??

Like a monkey with his hand in a jar, unable to work out how to get the peanuts out.

Care to explain what you're on about?

No?

I didn't think so.

I'm asking you a question. That what 'I'm on about'.

Why did you say this....

"From your alleged "reliable source", no doubt."

What reliable source? Who's reliable source??

Are you getting me confused with someone else?

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me, and used the term "reputable source" also in reference to me.

Care to elaborate why??

Like a monkey with his hand in a jar, unable to work out how to get the peanuts out.

Care to explain what you're on about?

No?

I didn't think so.

I'm asking you a question. That what 'I'm on about'.

Why did you say this....

"From your alleged "reliable source", no doubt."

What reliable source? Who's reliable source??

Are you getting me confused with someone else?

From what I can see you stated "an industry source".

If you're now saying this industry source of yours is neither "reliable" or "reputable" then why quote them at all?

And if you're saying this industry source of yours is "reliable" and "reputable" then you're really just being pedantic.

Which is it RF?

[SydneySainter]

It's quite apparent that people either seem to love him or hate him.

Personally, I think he's a good coach. Despite this myth of him having such a great list to work with, once you get passed our top six in Roo, Hayes, BJ, Fisher, Joey and Dal Santo (both who I think are a little over-rated), our depth runs pretty thin.

Like I said, Love him or hate, we've played in the last three grand finals and maybe he'll never win one as coach, but the Swans haven't been the same since he left.

[rodgerfox]

From what I can see you stated "an industry source".

Huh?

[Mr Magic]

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me, and used the term "reputable source" also in reference to me.

Care to elaborate why??

Like a monkey with his hand in a jar, unable to work out how to get the peanuts out.

Care to explain what you're on about?

No?

I didn't think so.

I'm asking you a question. That what 'I'm on about'.

Why did you say this....

"From your alleged "reliable source", no doubt."

What reliable source? Who's reliable source??

Are you getting me confused with someone else?

The irony is simply delicious.
the poster who is either incapable (or just chooses no to) of answering a myriad of questions posed by other posters, raises the plaintive 'I'm asking you a question' in defene of his position.

[markp]

I have a question.

[rodgerfox]

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me, and used the term "reputable source" also in reference to me.

Care to elaborate why??

Like a monkey with his hand in a jar, unable to work out how to get the peanuts out.

Care to explain what you're on about?

No?

I didn't think so.

I'm asking you a question. That what 'I'm on about'.

Why did you say this....

"From your alleged "reliable source", no doubt."

What reliable source? Who's reliable source??

Are you getting me confused with someone else?

The irony is simply delicious.
the poster who is either incapable (or just chooses no to) of answering a myriad of questions posed by other posters, raises the plaintive 'I'm asking you a question' in defene of his position.

??

Position??

I think you have far too much time on your hands.

[PJ]

I'm unsure why you've quoted the words "reliable source" in reference to me

Yes I find that a complete contradiction in terms. Why would anyone call you anything other than loaded.

[vacuous space]

There was a surprise for St Kilda last month when it found out Jamie Cripps suffered diabetes, after it picked him with its first choice in the national draft.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/r ... 5967893605

therein may lie your answer

From the sounds of things, there is no way Peake could possibly have known. Nobody knew. There's also every chance Cripps blitzed draft camp whilst suffering from undiagnosed and untreated diabetes. There could be upside there. With proper treatment, he may wind up being a bargain. He certainly won't be the first pro athlete with type-1 diabetes.

There also seems to be a question as to whether Peake walked or was pushed. If he winds up working for another top-4 club, I think we can rule out woeful incompetence as his reason for leaving. He certainly wasn't given a lot to work with in his time here: one top-20 pick.

It strikes me that having Elshaug in the role is a good idea. He knows as well as anyone what kind of players Lyon will want and use.

[SaintPav]

The continued recruitment of lowly skilled players who are brought in to play roles that don't require them to kick, is hurting.

Just set me straight - was that Peake's job?

It seems that if they're any good, it was 'Ross'' job and he's a marvel.

If they turn out to be no good, it seems it was the recruiting guy's job, and poor old Ross is magically getting this horrible list that he's inherited to over-achieve.

If a reject plays a good game, then 'Ross' has shaped them. If they're rubbish then the recruiting guy erred and poor Ross is left to clean up the mess again.


That seems to be the way it works.[/quote]

Says who?

[saintbrat]

There also seems to be a question as to whether Peake walked or was pushed. If he winds up working for another top-4 club, I think we can rule out woeful incompetence as his reason for leaving. He certainly wasn't given a lot to work with in his time here: one top-20 pick.

It strikes me that having Elshaug in the role is a good idea. He knows as well as anyone what kind of players Lyon will want and use.

Agre with the last comment and those supporting the ' everybody walking line- conveniently forget that Elshaugh is back...

and read somewhere that peake was sick of the traveling- from ocean grove every working day...

[SaintPav]

no one knows anything..

[saintsRrising]

I think we can rule out woeful incompetence as his reason for leaving. .

Thing is if you are striving to be No 1.....then even a good performance is not good enough.

If we want to be No 1...then we need very good recruiting. Not perfect...for that would be unrealistic. But we certainly want to be better than average in terms of value delivered for when a pick is taken.

Some of Peake's picks look to be very good..ie Stanley and Steven. Others have you scratching your head.

Overall not dreadful...but certainly not an out-perform either.

I don't think Lyon is content with being average.

[saintsRrising]

He certainly wasn't given a lot to work with in his time here: one top-20 pick.

He started in May 2007.

So picked Ben and Tom.

But yes with the club being a very active trader the number of picks he had to work with was reduced. Ben was No 9 and he never had picks in the cream of the Top 5.

However the Pies have been out performing of late after some ordinary drafting years., and this was certainly a factor in their improvement, but by no means the only one.

[vacuous space]

I don't think Lyon is content with being average.

I think Lyon is scared witless of being average, to the point that he's terrified of taking risks at the selection table. He consistently selects mediocre players over emerging young talent. It would have to be frustrating for a recruiter to see all your best selections consistently passed over. Particularly when the players getting a game are then promptly delisted at seasons end.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I don't think Lyon is content with being average.

I think Lyon is scared witless of being average, to the point that he's terrified of taking risks at the selection table. He consistently selects mediocre players over emerging young talent. It would have to be frustrating for a recruiter to see all your best selections consistently passed over. Particularly when the players getting a game are then promptly delisted at seasons end.

who exactly was knocking the door down for selection ?? make no mistake Eddy was delisted because RL is looking at a new approach to the game plan and he didnt fit into that role he was picked up as a rookie cause in the end he was the best player available at that stage ....

just looking at our picks it pretty clear to see what RL is leaning towards with the team moving forward ...

i dont get what you mean by terrified of taking risks at the selection table? would you rather he chuck a not ready Nick Winmar in the deep end and destroy his body like previous coach did with X clarke ??

[Moods]

The continued recruitment of lowly skilled players who are brought in to play roles that don't require them to kick, is hurting.

Just set me straight - was that Peake's job?

It seems that if they're any good, it was 'Ross'' job and he's a marvel.

If they turn out to be no good, it seems it was the recruiting guy's job, and poor old Ross is magically getting this horrible list that he's inherited to over-achieve.

If a reject plays a good game, then 'Ross' has shaped them. If they're rubbish then the recruiting guy erred and poor Ross is left to clean up the mess again.


That seems to be the way it works.[/quote]

Actually that's the way it works at ALL clubs Rodg. Newsflash - our club isn't that different to most in the industry. For someone who likes to portray themselves as seeing through all the BS, you're surprisingly harsh when talking about the saints. If the saints were looking to find a new coach, then the spin would be that he has a superb list, or a good list that he's not getting the best out of.

AS it is the club (justifiably) are quite happy with Lyon. Many of the senior players make noises suggesting that not only his Lyon a great coach, but they believe he is the best in the AFL or at least the best they have played under. THese quotes are often unprompted, almost an aside during interviews.

You know what, I couldn't give a sh!t what our assistants think of Ross, (although I suspect that most departures are just natural turnover of staff)but I do care what the players think of him. Lose the players and you may as well walk out the door. WE lost a very senior player in Ball, and the players as a collective appear to have backed the coach over the situation. We have no reason to be unhappy with our coach. He's not 100% perfect all the time, but hes better than any coach the saints have had since Allan Jeans I reckon - and there has been quite a few in between jeans - Lyon.

[saintly]

the issue will be, what does he know about recruiting?????

[Legendary]

Peake is not "highly rated".

He was overlooked by other clubs before St Kilda appointed him.

His record at St Kilda has been poor.