I choose integrity!

[thejiggingsaint]

There are some posters on here who, in light of the Bomber Thompson defection to Essendon, have declared that "if it wins a flag any tactic is justified" Well Folks, I'm a wee bit old fashioned but I want not a bar of ANY flag that has been won by anything other than by HONEST ENDEAVOUR!
As the prophet said "what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his own soul?"
If we can't win the damn thing fair and square then I dont want it!!!!!!

[bobmurray]

There are some posters on here who, in light of the Bomber Thompson defection to Essendon, have declared that "if it wins a flag any tactic is justified" Well Folks, I'm a wee bit old fashioned but I want not a bar of ANY flag that has been won by anything other than by HONEST ENDEAVOUR!
As the prophet said "what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his own soul?"
If we can't win the damn thing fair and square then I dont want it!!!!!!

I don't think you need to worry about us winning "it".....

[plugger66]

I choose winning it anyway we can as long as it is legel in the AFL"S eyes. Anyway who says we always take the high and mighty ground. If the siren rings and we are in front in the GF I would get no lesser satifaction if we had done as the Dons had done.

[bigcarl]

I choose winning it anyway we can as long as it is legel in the AFL"S eyes.

Integrity and the AFL. Interesting concept.

[Mr Magic]

I choose winning it anyway we can as long as it is legel in the AFL"S eyes.

Integrity and the AFL. Interesting concept.

Legal before or after the event?

[St. Luke]

I don't think you need to worry about us winning "it".....

True that

[gringo]

The afl has no integrity so why expect the clubs to have it. Malthouse and his recruiters have systematically stretched the boundries of the rules. And the interchange, TV coverage and scheduling of games show the AFL are not that interested in keeping the integrity of the game.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't want to win a flag through a lack of integrity.


But I don't want to lose one through too much integrity either!

[plugger66]

The afl has no integrity so why expect the clubs to have it. Malthouse and his recruiters have systematically stretched the boundries of the rules. And the interchange, TV coverage and scheduling of games show the AFL are not that interested in keeping the integrity of the game.

Yes it was much better when clubs were going broke and the AFL were trying to get rid of them. It was also much better back in ..... sorry it has never been better. My mistake.

[older saint]

I don't think Essendon did anything worng. Their job for their supporters was to get the best available intheir eyes for the team. I would hope our club would do the same.

Bomber Thomspn the individual however has shown all and sundry the level of integrity and honesty he has. As has been revealed in the paper and i knew from late august the wheels have been in motion with this since late July. Just say i want to leave as i have done all i can, but to say i am tired ya ya ya shows the person he is.

Lots of leaks at essendon!

[hilairehinshelwood]

The afl has no integrity so why expect the clubs to have it. Malthouse and his recruiters have systematically stretched the boundries of the rules. And the interchange, TV coverage and scheduling of games show the AFL are not that interested in keeping the integrity of the game.

Could not agree more. AFl getting ever closer to WWE into the level of how contrived their respective sports are.

[Thinline]

The afl has no integrity so why expect the clubs to have it. Malthouse and his recruiters have systematically stretched the boundries of the rules. And the interchange, TV coverage and scheduling of games show the AFL are not that interested in keeping the integrity of the game.

Are you four years old?

OMG an organisation that makes money. Damn them and their unscrupulous profit motive.

[thejiggingsaint]

Some interesting points made here. I addressed my original post to the issue of Hird, Thompson and Essendon and the manner in which they have conducted their business, and the response from some who say "who cares if it wins a flag?"
Its not a matter of "taking the high and mighty ground" Plugger, but of winning fair and square. (Only my personal opinion of course) I can well understand and sympathise with those who through years of bitter disappointment and frustration believe that "the end can justify any means" I believe that to conduct ourselves as Essendon and Thompson have done, and the way Carlton have done in the past to win glory, robs us of the true value of success.
I realise that the world is a much more cynical place now, and the old adage of "winners are grinners etc" holds sway. However, this should not deter us from TRYING to lift standards and win honestly.

[plugger66]

Some interesting points made here. I addressed my original post to the issue of Hird, Thompson and Essendon and the manner in which they have conducted their business, and the response from some who say "who caresif it wins a flag?"
Its not a matter of "taking the high and mighty ground" Plugger, but of winning fair and square. (Only my personal opinion of course) I can well understand and sympathise with those who through years of bitter disappointment and frustration believe that "the end can justify any means" I believe that to conduct ourselves as Essendon and Thompson have done, and the way Carlton have done in the past to win glory, robs us of the true value of success.
I realise that the world is a much more cynical place now, and the old adage of "winners are grinners etc" holds sway. However, this should not deter us from TRYING to lift standards and win honestly.

I actually dont see what Hird and Essendon have done wrong. MT should have probably been more honest but see as winning a flag is about the side and not individuals all Essendon have done is give themselves a better chance. I think we are living in fantasy land if we dont think has club has tried to do things that may help but are morally wrong. Well I certainly hope we have.

[thejiggingsaint]

Hi Plugger What have Hird and Essendon done wrong? Well mate, they were in discussions with the coach of another club (still under contract) during the season, and have acted in a deceitful and shabby manner.
In the same way that Hird "denied" taking on the coaching role at the Bombers...before taking on the coaching role at the Bombers!!
As I say, I'm a wee bit naive/old fashioned and I guess we agree to disagree on the issue.
regards

Dave

[plugger66]

Hi Plugger What have Hird and Essendon done wrong? Well mate, they were in discussions with the coach of another club (still under contract) during the season, and have acted in a deceitful and shabby manner.
In the same way that Hird "denied" taking on the coaching role at the Bombers...before taking on the coaching role at the Bombers!!
As I say, I'm a wee bit naive/old fashioned and I guess we agree to disagree on the issue.
regards

Dave

Do you honestly think our club has never spoken to players and coaches when in contract with other clubs. I'd be 100% sure we have and if we havent we are not 100% trying to win a flag.

[thejiggingsaint]

No I don't think our club has always been squeaky clean Plugger.
But this doesn't stop me from wanting them to act in a decent and moral manner. Which I don't believe Essendon and Thompson have.
Its all a matter of opinion of course!
have a good one

Dave

[Rice Paper]

Non of us would have a club if we're talking about club integrity.

Paying your players, coaches & creditors 8c or 22c in a dollar for services rendered? We are the last club to talk about club integrity, when we short change club champions like Trevor Barker and Allan Jeans for all their input for the club.

Everyone should thank their lucky stars the competition is run by a true independant commission who can grow the game, therefore allowing clubs like St Kilda to survive.

[thejiggingsaint]

Hi Rice Paper! I don't think we disagree about the disgraceful behaviour of past club champions being short changed. Because a club has acted in that way in the past does not mean we should not have the opinion that we should be aiming to be better in the present.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

It's a game of inches and on the day of the drawn Grand Final we were playing a team with more inches:

Having the best facilities in the league (versus the worst) obviously gave them a few inches.

A ludicrously generous run of games at the Grand Final venue with the best surface in the league (as opposed to our punishing schedule on the worst). More inches.

A minimal number of games interstate (4) including none in the last 9(?) rounds. As opposed to 6 games interstate, including one in the last round. More inches. (And even more inches in 2011.)

Jolly and Ball declare they want to go to Collingwood (and only Collingwood) in the draft. The AFL looks the other way. More inches.

The MRP wipes out Steven Baker for a ludicrous nine games over trifling incidents. Simple system corruption. The nine weeks disrupts Baker's match fitness and very likely contributes to his indifferent form in the GFs. Another quarter-inch.

And maybe another quarter inch here: St Kilda is the first team in history forced to wear an ugly clash strip in a Grand Final. (And will probably remain the only club to do so -- can you imagine the AFL doing it to Carlton?) Ironically, we were playing one of two teams (Essendon being the other) that effectively doesn't have a clash strip. But the AFL didn't force them to get one.

And I'm sure you can come up with even more inches.

Bottom line: the game is corrupt, rewarding some clubs at the expense of others. In such an environment, integrity doesn't go very far and cheating is morally justifiable.

[saintspremiers]

Bottom line: the game is corrupt, rewarding some clubs at the expense of others. In such an environment, integrity doesn't go very far and cheating is morally justifiable.

Agree.

[satchmo]

Hi Rice Paper! I don't think we disagree about the disgraceful behaviour of past club champions being short changed.

Love ya Dave, but that "disgraceful behaviour" as you put it, is the sole reason that the St Kilda Football Club still exists. The very fact that those people accepted the offer shows their selflessness: Strength Through Loyalty.

[asaint]

I am sick of all the advantages C'wood are given. Tarrant is the next draft fixer,is this going to happen every year now? We may have integrity but we have no cup and I am sick of it. History wont show how it was the david vs goliath battle,just the result.

[plugger66]

I am sick of all the advantages C'wood are given. Tarrant is the next draft fixer,is this going to happen every year now? We may have integrity but we have no cup and I am sick of it. History wont show how it was the david vs goliath battle,just the result.

How is fantasy land going? Tarrent wanted to go back and he was given that chance. Bruce wants to go to Hawthorn and that will happen. Well done both sides whilest we try to win a flag through integrity which should be another name for excuse because would have done the same thing as both sides given the opportunity. We just happen to have not one cent left on our salary cap.

[SteveStevens66]

It's a game of inches and on the day of the drawn Grand Final we were playing a team with more inches:

Having the best facilities in the league (versus the worst) obviously gave them a few inches.

A ludicrously generous run of games at the Grand Final venue with the best surface in the league (as opposed to our punishing schedule on the worst). More inches.

A minimal number of games interstate (4) including none in the last 9(?) rounds. As opposed to 6 games interstate, including one in the last round. More inches. (And even more inches in 2011.)

Jolly and Ball declare they want to go to Collingwood (and only Collingwood) in the draft. The AFL looks the other way. More inches.

The MRP wipes out Steven Baker for a ludicrous nine games over trifling incidents. Simple system corruption. The nine weeks disrupts Baker's match fitness and very likely contributes to his indifferent form in the GFs. Another quarter-inch.

And maybe another quarter inch here: St Kilda is the first team in history forced to wear an ugly clash strip in a Grand Final. (And will probably remain the only club to do so -- can you imagine the AFL doing it to Carlton?) Ironically, we were playing one of two teams (Essendon being the other) that effectively doesn't have a clash strip. But the AFL didn't force them to get one.

And I'm sure you can come up with even more inches.

Bottom line: the game is corrupt, rewarding some clubs at the expense of others. In such an environment, integrity doesn't go very far and cheating is morally justifiable.

Excellent post!