Goal-kicking Medium Marking Forwards

[bergholt]

I'm still of the opinion that we need a good third tall/medium forward to fill a hole in our forward line.

I don't think Sam Gilbert's going to be the answer, because I don't think his kicking is reliable enough. Tommy Lynch could be it, but I'd expect him to be a little way away still. Paul Cahill and Rhys Stanley are certainly too far away. I do think Raph is an outside chance to be successful in this role, but I'm not sure he'll ever get the chance.

There are also four delisted players who stick out as being possibilities, and one at Sandy and one at Williamstown who I've heard mentioned in conjunction with this role. Here are all the contenders in context of their height:

Rhys Stanley - 200cm, 89kg, 19 - St Kilda
Sam Gilbert - 194cm, 92kg, 24 - St Kilda
Paul Cahill - 193cm, 81kg, 20 - St Kilda
Brad Fisher - 192cm, 86kg, 26 - Carlton
Tom Lynch - 192cm, 85kg, 20 - St Kilda
Cam Bruce - 190cm, 85kg, 31 - Melbourne
Beau Muston - 189cm, 86kg, 23 - Hawthorn
Raph Clarke - 189cm, 85kg, 25 - St Kilda
Mitch Hahn - 188cm, 99kg, 29 - Western Bulldogs
Matt Little - 187cm, 74kg, 24 - Williamstown
Ryan Gamble - 184cm, 75kg, 23 - Geelong
Chris Irving - 184cm, 79kg, 23 - Sandringham

Huge difference in size and body type there, and age, with 12 years separating Stanley and Bruce.

All of them could play the role to some extent. I think Mitch Hahn is probably the best prospect for results in the short term, though he'll likely re-sign with the Dogs. Muston's fairly mobile - but injury-prone - I wouldn't mind seeing him get a chance. Bruce is too old. Little is probably not good enough, same with Gamble. And while Irving may well get a spot on our list, I'm not sure he plays exactly this role.

Opinions? Do we need a third marking forward? Are any of these guys the answer in that role? Will we get any of the recruits?

[suss]

It was a role Gwilt played early last year before being dropped mid-way through the season. Everybody knows he reinvented himself as a very reliable backman but I wonder if he couldn't go forward given that we seem to have many more backmen than forwards at the moment. I would imagine that Raph has to slot back in a some point and then we have Miles pressing for a spot. At least Jimmy has the poise and finishing skills that Gilbert seems to lack. And he's found confidence in the backline, maybe he would return to the forward line a better player.

[ChicagoSaint]

IMO Irvo has what it takes. Not a marking forward though.
Living in Seaford/Frankston his elevation to an AFL list would benefit the Saints.
You can't go past him IMO. Knows how to find the goal.
Not ever intimidated, this guy is the real deal.
Tough, hard and highly skilled.

[SainterK]

It was a role Gwilt played early last year before being dropped mid-way through the season. Everybody knows he reinvented himself as a very reliable backman but I wonder if he couldn't go forward given that we seem to have many more backmen than forwards at the moment. I would imagine that Raph has to slot back in a some point and then we have Miles pressing for a spot. At least Jimmy has the poise and finishing skills that Gilbert seems to lack. And he's found confidence in the backline, maybe he would return to the forward line a better player.

If we want to be more attacking, we need to leave our good backmen in defence, to allow for less numbers to be pushed back. Gwilt is a very good and very creative backmen, personally I think Ross will leave him there.

If Kosi tries his hand as a second ruckmen, we'd have room to play both Stanley and Lynch alongside Roo.

[Con Gorozidis]

Tom Lynch is 20 now. So 2011 is make or break. Hed need to get a wriggle on. If he doesnt show something in 2011 he never will.

If we have Roo at FF and Stanley a roaming high CHF we do need another mid sized goal kicker causing trouble. Someone around 185cm.

[Saints43]

It was a role Gwilt played early last year before being dropped mid-way through the season. Everybody knows he reinvented himself as a very reliable backman but I wonder if he couldn't go forward given that we seem to have many more backmen than forwards at the moment.

I think the problem with that is the reason Gwilt can be an accomplished defender is that it is a far easier role to play in defence rather than forward.

Gwilt was pretty quiet as a forward, and confidence increase aside, I think he would be pretty ineffectual if put up there again.

Even terrific players like Sam Fisher (who played as a forward in lower leagues) show how hard it is to get a kick up forward.

Not saying it's not worth a go. We need to do something do hit the scoreboard a bit harder. But I think having Riewoldt & one or more other forwards hold forward structure might go some way to helping this. But that would probably mean no more scoreless opposition quarters or regular record low I50 stats.

[saintlee]

Tom Lynch is 20 now. So 2011 is make or break. Hed need to get a wriggle on. If he doesnt show something in 2011 he never will.

If we have Roo at FF and Stanley a roaming high CHF we do need another mid sized goal kicker causing trouble. Someone around 185cm.

Why is it make or break for Tom at age 20? Armo has been on the list for longer and not stepped up. I think he'll be given a number of years yet before they disgard a first round pick.

[Con Gorozidis]

Tom Lynch is 20 now. So 2011 is make or break. Hed need to get a wriggle on. If he doesnt show something in 2011 he never will.

If we have Roo at FF and Stanley a roaming high CHF we do need another mid sized goal kicker causing trouble. Someone around 185cm.

Why is it make or break for Tom at age 20? Armo has been on the list for longer and not stepped up. I think he'll be given a number of years yet before they disgard a first round pick.

I said make or break to "show something" if you read it. Armo has already "shown something". The Hawks game in 2009 for instance classifies as "showing something".

I dont mean he has to dominate in 2011. Just show that he can play at the level. That is my definition of make or break.

You need to show you can play at 20. I don't expect dominance or consistency but just something! We cant carry a dozen guys just hanging in there at VFL level.

Armo has shown he can play at the top level. Jury is well and truly our on Lynch so far. So id like to see it this year.

[Dr Spaceman]

Tom Lynch is 20 now. So 2011 is make or break. Hed need to get a wriggle on. If he doesnt show something in 2011 he never will.

If we have Roo at FF and Stanley a roaming high CHF we do need another mid sized goal kicker causing trouble. Someone around 185cm.

Why is it make or break for Tom at age 20? Armo has been on the list for longer and not stepped up. I think he'll be given a number of years yet before they disgard a first round pick.

I said make or break to "show something" if you read it. Armo has already "shown something". The Hawks game in 2009 for instance classifies as "showing something".

I dont mean he has to dominate in 2011. Just show that he can play at the level. That is my definition of make or break.

You need to show you can play at 20. I don't expect dominance or consistency but just something! We cant carry a dozen guys just hanging in there at VFL level.

Armo has shown he can play at the top level. Jury is well and truly our on Lynch so far. So id like to see it this year.

Reality is that the jury is out on all the blokes who have so far been unable to establish themselves as senior players.

Lynch has had a bit of bad luck with injuries but nonetheless has shown something. To date that has been at VFL level. Unfortunately the strength of the senior team has made it hard for guys like Tom to get opportunities.

And unfortunately, the one chance he got saw limited time on the ground against a side that was in the process of pulling our pants down. Some people seem to suggest that because Dustin Fletcher is 53 years old that young Tom should have run rings around him. However DF is an elite defender who is still at the top of his game and who would give any debutant a hard time.

If Tom had've debuted in one of our victorious games, some peoples views of him may be far more positive.

[ChicagoSaint]

If we have Roo at FF and Stanley a roaming high CHF we do need another mid sized goal kicker causing trouble. Someone around 185cm.

Irvo is every ounce 82kg and plays big.
Finds it in a way few can and just wills himself.
Toughest footballer on that list with the exception of Gilbo.
Lives locally. If we don't pick him it would be a mistake.
His actions do all the talking. Can kick the improbable.
Freakiest Medium this side of Sandringham.
If he gets onto our list LOOKOUT!

[Moccha]

Smokes too many bongs

[Dr Spaceman]

Smokes too many bongs

What's the correct amount to smoke?

[Con Gorozidis]

Smokes too many bongs

What's the correct amount to smoke?

im certainly open to a bloke of irvings size/position.
means we can keep our defence in tact and occassionaly throw BJ and Gilbo fwd to keep the opposition unsettled. but we cant keep mini and eddy as "defensive forwards".

lets look at it from a nick maxwell/luke hodge perspective. when eddy goes to him do u think nick/luke think

"gee robert eddy is on me, hes an honest competitor renown for fwd pressure and playing his role and filling gaps, i better be careful"

OR does he think

"sweet this eddy bloke is on me, hes never kicked a goal in his life so no way ill get in trouble from the coach for leaving my man and looking for rebounds/kicks cos he wont he hurt us on the scoreboard so i can just go for my marks and confidently attack all day and set up play as a quarterback. awesome"

i suggest its the latter.

[bergholt]

It was a role Gwilt played early last year before being dropped mid-way through the season. Everybody knows he reinvented himself as a very reliable backman but I wonder if he couldn't go forward given that we seem to have many more backmen than forwards at the moment. I would imagine that Raph has to slot back in a some point and then we have Miles pressing for a spot. At least Jimmy has the poise and finishing skills that Gilbert seems to lack. And he's found confidence in the backline, maybe he would return to the forward line a better player.

If we want to be more attacking, we need to leave our good backmen in defence, to allow for less numbers to be pushed back. Gwilt is a very good and very creative backmen, personally I think Ross will leave him there.

i really hope that's true. when gwilt was playing as forward i thought he was completely useless. but i've become an enormous fan since he's looked so solid and smart in defense. i just don't think he'll ever be a forward, in the same way sam fisher will never be a forward. let's leave him at the back and find someone else for the forward line.

[ChicagoSaint]

Smokes too many bongs

funny from a man whom is 'wasted in the ruck'.

[ChicagoSaint]

im certainly open to a bloke of irvings size/position. means we can keep our defence in tact and occassionaly throw BJ and Gilbo fwd to keep the opposition unsettled.

Collingwood had a look at him before last season and they went with Ball.

Irvo would:
A. put a rocket up them, and
B. provide us with a strong medium who can play the game, and
C. allow schneids to play permanently high and in, and
D. allow gods and gilbo to roll forward if need be.

[JABBER]

JASON BLAKE IS THE ANSWER SH*THOUSE IN DEFENCE AND TERRIBLE ANYWHERE ELSE

[Con Gorozidis]

im certainly open to a bloke of irvings size/position. means we can keep our defence in tact and occassionaly throw BJ and Gilbo fwd to keep the opposition unsettled.

Collingwood had a look at him before last season and they went with Ball.

Irvo would:
A. put a rocket up them, and
B. provide us with a strong medium who can play the game, and
C. allow schneids to play permanently high and in, and
D. allow gods and gilbo to roll forward if need be.

Pies used picks 30, 62, 75, 85 in 2009 National Draft. So they cant have been too keen on him. But that doesnt mean much. Plenty of good players get overlooked in drafts for a range or reasons. Whats his desire/training like? Not sure about the rocket bit. Hell be just focussed on getting a kick in the big league id say.

[ChicagoSaint]

im certainly open to a bloke of irvings size/position. means we can keep our defence in tact and occassionaly throw BJ and Gilbo fwd to keep the opposition unsettled.

Collingwood had a look at him before last season and they went with Ball.

Irvo would:
A. put a rocket up them, and
B. provide us with a strong medium who can play the game, and
C. allow schneids to play permanently high and in, and
D. allow gods and gilbo to roll forward if need be.

Pies used picks 30, 62, 75, 85 in 2009 National Draft. So they cant have been too keen on him. But that doesnt mean much. Plenty of good players get overlooked in drafts for a range or reasons. Whats his desire/training like? Not sure about the rocket bit. Hell be just focussed on getting a kick in the big league id say.

desire good. just became a father. softly spoken. a lion on the track.

[shmic_s]

JASON BLAKE IS THE ANSWER SH*THOUSE IN DEFENCE AND TERRIBLE ANYWHERE ELSE

Hahaha, that is so funny.... f*** off.

[shmic_s]

From what i've seen and from what others have said, i wouldn't be disappointed if we gave him a shot.

He must want to give AFL a go though, and becoming a father can certinally change your priorities. (In regards to vague wispers i heard that he didnt want to give AFL a go. Happy playing VFL and doing his day job.)

[spert]

One thing for sure is that the forward line structure and personnel needs a lot of work over summer, or else a premiership will not be coming our way in 2011 as the opposition can clearly see our weaknesses now and know they can easily attack out of defence off Kosi and Milne. I can't see any natural forwards coming through the ranks..Lynch hasn't shown me anything and Stanley appears to be slow developing ruck/ forward, Eddy and Geary look all at sea in the forward half, but Steven and Armo have good goal sense and may need to spend time as small forwards. Someone is going to have to put their hand up in the pre season as a genuine forward.

[Legendary]

JASON BLAKE IS THE ANSWER SH*THOUSE IN DEFENCE AND TERRIBLE ANYWHERE ELSE

Geez mate, played a couple of terrific finals.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

Smokes too many bongs

What's the correct amount to smoke?

im certainly open to a bloke of irvings size/position.
means we can keep our defence in tact and occassionaly throw BJ and Gilbo fwd to keep the opposition unsettled. but we cant keep mini and eddy as "defensive forwards".

lets look at it from a nick maxwell/luke hodge perspective. when eddy goes to him do u think nick/luke think

"gee robert eddy is on me, hes an honest competitor renown for fwd pressure and playing his role and filling gaps, i better be careful"

OR does he think

"sweet this eddy bloke is on me, hes never kicked a goal in his life so no way ill get in trouble from the coach for leaving my man and looking for rebounds/kicks cos he wont he hurt us on the scoreboard so i can just go for my marks and confidently attack all day and set up play as a quarterback. awesome"

i suggest its the latter.[/quote
Exactly this is the problem with defensive forwards. They should never play in our team again. Get forwards that kick goals and then the defender has to man up on them. It's pretty simple really. Play through Hodge and Harry O'Briens man and then when they kick 3 goals in a quarter all of a sudden that forward will get a little bit more respect.
I know it isn't always as simple as that, but we acheive nothing when we have forwards there that just can't kick goals, we loss a third of our forward line and the opposition then just puts 3 on Reiwoldt and we are in all sorts of trouble. Mini and Eddy out and some genuine forwards with a bit of flair and dare in!

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

[quote="JABBER"]JASON BLAKE IS THE ANSWER SH*THOUSE IN DEFENCE AND TERRIBLE ANYWHERE ELSE[/quote

DON'T KNOCK THE BLAKE DUDE! HE DOES HIS JOB EVERY WEEK...GOTTA LOVE THE BLAKE!