2011 FIXture ? !!

[bigcarl]

the issue of fixturing in the AFL is a disgrace and to my way of thinking dilutes their product as it is flawed, not transparent, open to rorting and ultimately has too much of a say on how the final 8, top 4 is eventually decided...I'll stop short of calling it corrupt but to put $$$ ahead of a balanced & equitable draw is a sad indictment on the AFL competition.

Well said. I agree.

[plugger66]

the issue of fixturing in the AFL is a disgrace and to my way of thinking dilutes their product as it is flawed, not transparent, open to rorting and ultimately has too much of a say on how the final 8, top 4 is eventually decided...I'll stop short of calling it corrupt but to put $$$ ahead of a balanced & equitable draw is a sad indictment on the AFL competition.

Well said. I agree.

Struggling BC. Resorting to selective quoting.

[barks4eva]

tugger66 you're an absolute clueless apologist flog!


Demetriou has bonuses he wrote into his own contract to award himself more money for attendance increases and he pays himself more money as a result, therefore Collingwood played around 8 games on the MCG leading into finals to help them help him!

They are looked after and the FIXture is orchestrated around giving them what they want so Demetriou gets what he wants!

[plugger66]

tugger66 you're an absolute clueless apologist flog!


Demetriou has bonuses he wrote into his own contract to award himself more money for attendance increases and he pays himself more money as a result, therefore Collingwood played around 8 games on the MCG leading into finals to help them help him!

They are looked after and the FIXture is orchestrated around giving them what they want so Demetriou gets what he wants!

You are completely clueless. Please change your name to Alicia Silverstone now instead of brains4never.

[SainterK]

tugger66 you're an absolute clueless apologist flog!


Demetriou has bonuses he wrote into his own contract to award himself more money for attendance increases and he pays himself more money as a result, therefore Collingwood played around 8 games on the MCG leading into finals to help them help him!

They are looked after and the FIXture is orchestrated around giving them what they want so Demetriou gets what he wants!

You are completely clueless. Please change your name to Alicia Silverstone now instead of brains4never.

Barks does post sporadically

[bigcarl]

the issue of fixturing in the AFL is a disgrace and to my way of thinking dilutes their product as it is flawed, not transparent, open to rorting and ultimately has too much of a say on how the final 8, top 4 is eventually decided...I'll stop short of calling it corrupt but to put $$$ ahead of a balanced & equitable draw is a sad indictment on the AFL competition.

Well said. I agree.

Struggling BC. Resorting to selective quoting.

Sorry. Had to go to work. I'm happy to have the discussion out with you when I have some time. You are wrong as usual.

[plugger66]

the issue of fixturing in the AFL is a disgrace and to my way of thinking dilutes their product as it is flawed, not transparent, open to rorting and ultimately has too much of a say on how the final 8, top 4 is eventually decided...I'll stop short of calling it corrupt but to put $$$ ahead of a balanced & equitable draw is a sad indictment on the AFL competition.

Well said. I agree.

Struggling BC. Resorting to selective quoting.

Sorry. Had to go to work. I'm happy to have the discussion out with you when I have some time. You are wrong as usual.

No I am 100% right. It was selective quoting and to say anything else would be lying.

[3rd generation saint]

Sorry Plugger66, but Collingwood get the best draw every year, I can guaratee they will go interstate a max of 4 times, will play the majority of their games at the MCG, will play Essendon and Carlton twice guaranteed.
That makes the fixture a joke in world sport, as I said in another post, no other major sporting body has such a compromised fixture as the AFL.
If had been fair dinkum, each side would play each other 5 times over a 3 year period.
But because the AFL deems we must have 2 Derbys, 2 showdowns, Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton playing each other 2 times a year, the draw is flawed.
I have no doubt Sydney will be our first round oppenent again, last yeaer it was there, this year it will be here.

[plugger66]

Sorry Plugger66, but Collingwood get the best draw every year, I can guaratee they will go interstate a max of 4 times, will play the majority of their games at the MCG, will play Essendon and Carlton twice guaranteed.
That makes the fixture a joke in world sport, as I said in another post, no other major sporting body has such a compromised fixture as the AFL.
If had been fair dinkum, each side would play each other 5 times over a 3 year period.
But because the AFL deems we must have 2 Derbys, 2 showdowns, Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton playing each other 2 times a year, the draw is flawed.
I have no doubt Sydney will be our first round oppenent again, last yeaer it was there, this year it will be here.

Yep the draw is determined for a few clubs every year but that doesnt make it the best draw. People just refuse to admit that the Pies had the hardest draw out of the top 4 sides this year. Maybe it is hatred or jealous but they just cant see facts when presented in front of them.

By the way the draw wouldnt be even a slight joke in world sport because apart from Aussies no one else even knows we play this game.

[SainterK]

Sorry Plugger66, but Collingwood get the best draw every year, I can guaratee they will go interstate a max of 4 times, will play the majority of their games at the MCG, will play Essendon and Carlton twice guaranteed.
That makes the fixture a joke in world sport, as I said in another post, no other major sporting body has such a compromised fixture as the AFL.
If had been fair dinkum, each side would play each other 5 times over a 3 year period.
But because the AFL deems we must have 2 Derbys, 2 showdowns, Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton playing each other 2 times a year, the draw is flawed.
I have no doubt Sydney will be our first round oppenent again, last yeaer it was there, this year it will be here.

Yep the draw is determined for a few clubs every year but that doesnt make it the best draw. People just refuse to admit that the Pies had the hardest draw out of the top 4 sides this year. Maybe it is hatred or jealous but they just cant see facts when presented in front of them.

By the way the draw wouldnt be even a slight joke in world sport because apart from Aussies no one else even knows we play this game.

Is that purely based on how often they played the top teams?

[plugger66]

Sorry Plugger66, but Collingwood get the best draw every year, I can guaratee they will go interstate a max of 4 times, will play the majority of their games at the MCG, will play Essendon and Carlton twice guaranteed.
That makes the fixture a joke in world sport, as I said in another post, no other major sporting body has such a compromised fixture as the AFL.
If had been fair dinkum, each side would play each other 5 times over a 3 year period.
But because the AFL deems we must have 2 Derbys, 2 showdowns, Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton playing each other 2 times a year, the draw is flawed.
I have no doubt Sydney will be our first round oppenent again, last yeaer it was there, this year it will be here.

Yep the draw is determined for a few clubs every year but that doesnt make it the best draw. People just refuse to admit that the Pies had the hardest draw out of the top 4 sides this year. Maybe it is hatred or jealous but they just cant see facts when presented in front of them.

By the way the draw wouldnt be even a slight joke in world sport because apart from Aussies no one else even knows we play this game.

Is that purely based on how often they played the top teams?

Of course it is because that is more important than where you play. Would you rather play WCE next year in the west ot the Pies at Etihad?

[3rd generation saint]

It's simple, the AFL draw is all about money, not an even competitive season.
No other sporting body in the world such as the NFL, who play American football, MLB who play baseball, NBA who play basketball, or the major European soccer leagues manipulate there seasons fixtures so to maximise profits by having certain guaranteed games played more than they have too.
And yes, regretably the filth we're the best side this year, and they probably would have still won the damn thing if the AFL fixture was as I said it should be.
But if we are to have an even playing field, than the same rules should apply to all teams in comp, I have no problem giving the start up clubs a couple of years of concessions, but then they should revert to the rules as all others.
That is why as I said, an even playing field that includes the draft, the salary cap, should include a draw that doesn't see any guaranteed matches for any club any season, it should be just how the computer determines who plays who insuring that each side plays each other 5 times over 3 years.

[plugger66]

It's simple, the AFL draw is all about money, not an even competitive season.
No other sporting body in the world such as the NFL, who play American football, MLB who play baseball, NBA who play basketball, or the major European soccer leagues manipulate there seasons fixtures so to maximise profits by having certain guaranteed games played more than they have too.
And yes, regretably the filth we're the best side this year, and they probably would have still won the damn thing if the AFL fixture was as I said it should be.
But if we are to have an even playing field, than the same rules should apply to all teams in comp, I have no problem giving the start up clubs a couple of years of concessions, but then they should revert to the rules as all others.
That is why as I said, an even playing field that includes the draft, the salary cap, should include a draw that doesn't see any guaranteed matches for any club any season, it should be just how the computer determines who plays who insuring that each side plays each other 5 times over 3 years.

Can you actually explain to me how playing each other 5 times over 3 years is a lev el playing field. I fail to see how that is fair either. Would you rather play the Hawks twice in 2008 or in 2010? Or even geelong twice in 2009 or 2011. It will never be level unless we have 34 games in 2 years time and that could never happen. Time to accept the draw and worry about things we can control.

[Mr Magic]

That Collingwood played more top 8 teams last season than any other top 4 side is indisputable.
BUT it was not by design, it was purely a statisitical accident.
When the AFL set out the Draw/Fixture they had no idea what the Final 8 would consist of.

What they did know though, was who played interstate and who played at the MCG and on what days they would play.

So, unlike the makeup of the Final 8, that was deliberate planning on their behalf.

[3rd generation saint]

It is fair to every team of the competition, it means no special deals, it is all the luck of the draw, just like it was fair to play each other twice over 22 weeks when it was a 12 team comp.
We may have a horror stretch where we play 4 good sides 4 weeks in a row.
One of the greatest comps in the world is the FA Cup, what makes it great is that no one knows who they will play the next round if they win. Now if the FA was like the AFL they would trying to manipulate that draw so you have a blockbuster every round, so that Man U may play Chelsea in the final.
But that doesn't happen.
You see Plugger, the level playing field is that every team is subject to the same variations and posibilities of who they will play.
There are no guaranteed fixtures, that means the Collingwoods, Essendons and Carltons may have to travel interstate as much as we have too.
There are no favourites, this game sells itself, we don't need guaranteed blockbusters to keep it together.
Let me ask you this Plugger, if they made the Grand Final Replay of St.Kilda Geelong the Anzac Match this year do you think it would have drawn any less of a crowd?
Of course it wouldn;t have, I remember when we played Richmond a couple of times at Waverley, we packed the place.
When teams are having successful periods they always draw big crowds, simple fact.

[plugger66]

That Collingwood played more top 8 teams last season than any other top 4 side is indisputable.
BUT it was not by design, it was purely a statisitical accident.
When the AFL set out the Draw/Fixture they had no idea what the Final 8 would consist of.

What they did know though, was who played interstate and who played at the MCG and on what days they would play.

So, unlike the makeup of the Final 8, that was deliberate planning on their behalf.

How would you suggest they do the draw allowing that we will have 18 clubs and obviously the interstate sides must play each other twice?

[Mr Magic]

That Collingwood played more top 8 teams last season than any other top 4 side is indisputable.
BUT it was not by design, it was purely a statisitical accident.
When the AFL set out the Draw/Fixture they had no idea what the Final 8 would consist of.

What they did know though, was who played interstate and who played at the MCG and on what days they would play.

So, unlike the makeup of the Final 8, that was deliberate planning on their behalf.

How would you suggest they do the draw allowing that we will have 18 clubs and obviously the interstate sides must play each other twice?

It all depends on what your major criteria for teh Draw is?
Is it to maximize attendances?
or
Is it to be fair to all teams?

If it's to maximize attendances then you do waht they are currently doing.

If it's to be fair and you're not going to have everybody play each other H&A, then you have to have a system whereby everybody plays each other H&A over a 2-3 year period - something the AFL claimed they were doing earlier in the decade but seem to have reneged on.

Or you split the competition into 'conferences' (like the NFL) and set up an 'equitable draw' that way.

BUT first you have to decide what your primary goal with teh Draw is?

[plugger66]

That Collingwood played more top 8 teams last season than any other top 4 side is indisputable.
BUT it was not by design, it was purely a statisitical accident.
When the AFL set out the Draw/Fixture they had no idea what the Final 8 would consist of.

What they did know though, was who played interstate and who played at the MCG and on what days they would play.

So, unlike the makeup of the Final 8, that was deliberate planning on their behalf.

How would you suggest they do the draw allowing that we will have 18 clubs and obviously the interstate sides must play each other twice?

It all depends on what your major criteria for teh Draw is?
Is it to maximize attendances?
or
Is it to be fair to all teams?

If it's to maximize attendances then you do waht they are currently doing.

If it's to be fair and you're not going to have everybody play each other H&A, then you have to have a system whereby everybody plays each other H&A over a 2-3 year period - something the AFL claimed they were doing earlier in the decade but seem to have reneged on.

Or you split the competition into 'conferences' (like the NFL) and set up an 'equitable draw' that way.

BUT first you have to decide what your primary goal with teh Draw is?

Those options arent fair either. The only fair draw is to play each other twice and that is never going to happen. I would love to know which team has won a flag because the draw favoured them. I cant think of many if any.

Everyone says the pies have the best draw and when they finally have a hard draw they win the flag so to me it just shows that the best side wins the flag most time regardless of the draw.

[Mr Magic]

That Collingwood played more top 8 teams last season than any other top 4 side is indisputable.
BUT it was not by design, it was purely a statisitical accident.
When the AFL set out the Draw/Fixture they had no idea what the Final 8 would consist of.

What they did know though, was who played interstate and who played at the MCG and on what days they would play.

So, unlike the makeup of the Final 8, that was deliberate planning on their behalf.

How would you suggest they do the draw allowing that we will have 18 clubs and obviously the interstate sides must play each other twice?

It all depends on what your major criteria for teh Draw is?
Is it to maximize attendances?
or
Is it to be fair to all teams?

If it's to maximize attendances then you do waht they are currently doing.

If it's to be fair and you're not going to have everybody play each other H&A, then you have to have a system whereby everybody plays each other H&A over a 2-3 year period - something the AFL claimed they were doing earlier in the decade but seem to have reneged on.

Or you split the competition into 'conferences' (like the NFL) and set up an 'equitable draw' that way.

BUT first you have to decide what your primary goal with teh Draw is?

Those options arent fair either. The only fair draw is to play each other twice and that is never going to happen. I would love to know which team has won a flag because the draw favoured them. I cant think of many if any.

Agreed, until every team plays each other twice in a season, the Draw will not be 'fair' to all teams.

But my 2 options are FAIRER than the 'crowd maximizing' we're currently getting.

THe qwuestion is do you want 'fairer' or not?

[plugger66]

That Collingwood played more top 8 teams last season than any other top 4 side is indisputable.
BUT it was not by design, it was purely a statisitical accident.
When the AFL set out the Draw/Fixture they had no idea what the Final 8 would consist of.

What they did know though, was who played interstate and who played at the MCG and on what days they would play.

So, unlike the makeup of the Final 8, that was deliberate planning on their behalf.

How would you suggest they do the draw allowing that we will have 18 clubs and obviously the interstate sides must play each other twice?

It all depends on what your major criteria for teh Draw is?
Is it to maximize attendances?
or
Is it to be fair to all teams?

If it's to maximize attendances then you do waht they are currently doing.

If it's to be fair and you're not going to have everybody play each other H&A, then you have to have a system whereby everybody plays each other H&A over a 2-3 year period - something the AFL claimed they were doing earlier in the decade but seem to have reneged on.

Or you split the competition into 'conferences' (like the NFL) and set up an 'equitable draw' that way.

BUT first you have to decide what your primary goal with teh Draw is?

Those options arent fair either. The only fair draw is to play each other twice and that is never going to happen. I would love to know which team has won a flag because the draw favoured them. I cant think of many if any.

Agreed, until every team plays each other twice in a season, the Draw will not be 'fair' to all teams.

But my 2 options are FAIRER than the 'crowd maximizing' we're currently getting.

THe qwuestion is do you want 'fairer' or not?

I dont care because i am unable to think of a side that won the flag due to the draw. i would rather the AFL make money so all clubs survive. To me that is far more important than the draw.

[stinger]

I dont care because i am unable to think

edited for truth....

[plugger66]

I dont care because i am unable to think

I really am a cleaner and i am that old it hasnt been up for years....

Thanks for finally admitting it to everyone.

[Enrico_Misso]

If it's to be fair and you're not going to have everybody play each other H&A, then you have to have a system whereby everybody plays each other H&A over a 2-3 year period - something the AFL claimed they were doing earlier in the decade but seem to have reneged on.

Or you split the competition into 'conferences' (like the NFL) and set up an 'equitable draw' that way.

Don't like the conferences proposal.

To be FAIR (as it should be)
the draw needs to .....

1) As you suggest MrM
Do the draw over a three year cycle
3 years = 66 H&A games
playing 17 teams 4 times = 68
So select two teams at random that you only play three times over 3 years, the rest you play 4 times.
Draw locked in for a three year cycle.
Very fair.

OR
2) the second option is you make it totally random.
Each side plays all the others once, and then the sides that you play twice are selected at RANDOM.
No secret agreements whereby certain sides always play twice.
No return darbies.
Yes you might get a bad draw one year.
Yes you might play the same team twice three years in a row.
But that is based on luck, not predefined AFL biases.
Also very fair.

[plugger66]

Neither of those are fair. May as well keep it as is so the AFL make money so all teams survive. Unless you can do it properly no point in doing it the way you say.

[rexy]

Just read through 4 pages of this drivel and about the same amount of bollocks in regards to clash strips.

We lost because we werent good enough, we were bloody good week one but couldnt back it up.

The draw, the uniforms, the choice of captain, who sang the song, 6 day breaks, which change room we used etc etc are all irrelevant.

We or nothing we do is a disgrace.

We are a good side who has played in 5 prelims in 7 years and the last 2 GFs.

To win a flag we need to get to the GF again and then play slightly better than we did this year or last year.

This is all that matters now.