Still behind Cats....

[Teflon]

I often look at the link between Geelongs rise and ours and the timings and can't help but feel we are still a tad behind them...

If you look at it in pure GF terms (when both sides really challenged - exclude the kids of 04 etc) its interesting...

Geelong smashed all in 2007 - won the flag in a canter
Saints dont make 8

Geelong lose 2008 GF
Saints flogged by 10 goals in prelim.

Geelong win 2009
Saints arrive in GF land after being the dominant side for the 09 year

2010
Cats dont make GF
Saints make GF again...

do we have 1 maybe 2 more years on the Cats?

[Con Gorozidis]

amazing revelation.
apart from those amazingly one-eyed sainters i would say everyone on the planet would say we more than a "tad behind"

2 premierships to nil for the current crop of players is more than a tad behind. Its a Brisbane to Perth walk. Despite how close we got on 2 occassions. When ths history books are written the Saints 2000-2010 are looooooooooooong way behind the Cats 2000-2010.

In our favour our current average age is 2 years younger than theirs. So we might have one more year in 2011 to bring home the bacon but I think history might say 2009 was the one that got away.

[Brisvegas saint]

amazing revelation.
apart from those amazingly one-eyed sainters i would say everyone on the planet would say we more than a "tad behind"

2 premierships to nil for the current crop of players is more than a tad behind. Its a Brisbane to Perth walk. Despite how close we got on 2 occassions. When ths history books are written the Saints 2000-2010 are looooooooooooong way behind the Cats 2000-2010.

In our favour our current average age is 2 years younger than theirs. So we might have one more year in 2011 to bring home the bacon but I think history might say 2009 was the one that got away.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that CG is suggesting developmentally we are about where the cats were in 07, just unfortunately we didn't get past the final hurdle. It's meant to be a post of quiet optimism, rather than of revelation.

[Teflon]

amazing revelation.
apart from those amazingly one-eyed sainters i would say everyone on the planet would say we more than a "tad behind"

2 premierships to nil for the current crop of players is more than a tad behind. Its a Brisbane to Perth walk. Despite how close we got on 2 occassions. When ths history books are written the Saints 2000-2010 are looooooooooooong way behind the Cats 2000-2010.

In our favour our current average age is 2 years younger than theirs. So we might have one more year in 2011 to bring home the bacon but I think history might say 2009 was the one that got away.

Gee thanks Con - you would have done well at school with the obvious...

The point of the thread isnt about the results of Geelong v St Kilda efforts - IM talking bout pure timing or "window talk" if you like and using Geelong to guage how far/much most reckon we have in terms of having ansother shot??

FFS i thought that was obvious but for all those other geniuses out there - yes I know Cats have 2 flags we have zilch.

Hard work on here at times......

[Teflon]

amazing revelation.
apart from those amazingly one-eyed sainters i would say everyone on the planet would say we more than a "tad behind"

2 premierships to nil for the current crop of players is more than a tad behind. Its a Brisbane to Perth walk. Despite how close we got on 2 occassions. When ths history books are written the Saints 2000-2010 are looooooooooooong way behind the Cats 2000-2010.

In our favour our current average age is 2 years younger than theirs. So we might have one more year in 2011 to bring home the bacon but I think history might say 2009 was the one that got away.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that CG is suggesting developmentally we are about where the cats were in 07, just unfortunately we didn't get past the final hurdle. It's meant to be a post of quiet optimism, rather than of revelation.

thank you.

[Brisvegas saint]

amazing revelation.
apart from those amazingly one-eyed sainters i would say everyone on the planet would say we more than a "tad behind"

2 premierships to nil for the current crop of players is more than a tad behind. Its a Brisbane to Perth walk. Despite how close we got on 2 occassions. When ths history books are written the Saints 2000-2010 are looooooooooooong way behind the Cats 2000-2010.

In our favour our current average age is 2 years younger than theirs. So we might have one more year in 2011 to bring home the bacon but I think history might say 2009 was the one that got away.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that CG is suggesting developmentally we are about where the cats were in 07, just unfortunately we didn't get past the final hurdle. It's meant to be a post of quiet optimism, rather than of revelation.

thank you.

No worries.

[Zed]

Its all about flags. We are miles behind the Cats.

If we dont win one in the next year or 2, who will look back at this era 20 years from now and say we were successful ? Only a few of us sad old sacks .. certainly not the general public.

[SainterK]

I understood where you were coming from Tef...

[Bernard Shakey]

Its all about flags. We are miles behind the Cats.

If we dont win one in the next year or 2, who will look back at this era 20 years from now and say we were successful ? Only a few of us sad old sacks .. certainly not the general public.

Do we care about the general public?

[Brisvegas saint]

I understood where you were coming from Tef...

Gold star for you.

[SainterK]

I understood where you were coming from Tef...

Gold star for you.

Oh wow, thanks

[Brisvegas saint]

Its all about flags. We are miles behind the Cats.

If we dont win one in the next year or 2, who will look back at this era 20 years from now and say we were successful ? Only a few of us sad old sacks .. certainly not the general public.

Do we care about the general public?

Would you think it was anything other than more failure?

[Con Gorozidis]

amazing revelation.
apart from those amazingly one-eyed sainters i would say everyone on the planet would say we more than a "tad behind"

2 premierships to nil for the current crop of players is more than a tad behind. Its a Brisbane to Perth walk. Despite how close we got on 2 occassions. When ths history books are written the Saints 2000-2010 are looooooooooooong way behind the Cats 2000-2010.

In our favour our current average age is 2 years younger than theirs. So we might have one more year in 2011 to bring home the bacon but I think history might say 2009 was the one that got away.

Gee thanks Con - you would have done well at school with the obvious...

The point of the thread isnt about the results of Geelong v St Kilda efforts - IM talking bout pure timing or "window talk" if you like and using Geelong to guage how far/much most reckon we have in terms of having ansother shot??

FFS i thought that was obvious but for all those other geniuses out there - yes I know Cats have 2 flags we have zilch.

Hard work on here at times......

i did perform very well on the "einstein factor" where my special topic was in fact "the bleeding obvious".

we just need something to jimmy open that window... someone with some burg experience maybe? is Lawrence Angwin still alive? Hed be great on our rookie list.

[derby Street]

Well I for one are right behind the cats ............... holding both their hind legs and giving them something more to remember the Saints by. I am seriously over them and they don't come into my thinking at all.

[Teflon]

Its all about flags. We are miles behind the Cats.

If we dont win one in the next year or 2, who will look back at this era 20 years from now and say we were successful ? Only a few of us sad old sacks .. certainly not the general public.

Again, we all know its all about the flags......question is have we got enough in the tank for another shot? - before we worry bout winning 2011 you gotta get there.....I guess Im looking for hope.....anything to suggest that just maybe we got a little more up our sleeves as I truly reckon the Cats will slip a little (not out of 8 but maybe top 4).

For us I reckon we have 1 maybe 2 years at a stretch BUT i'll temper that by also saying we could well and truly be next years surprise packet....why?.......no one rates or even knows our kids.....and just maybe their apprenticeship is done and its our turn to get some "growth" into the 22 from the youth department.

I realise Pies and all sides will say their kids will grow - BUT IMHO not all sides have our quality at the top level. To me IF we can get Steven, Armitage, Geary, Stanley, Simpkin, Heyne, Miles, Smith et al (at varying times ofcourse) to gives us that 10% above and beyond what a Mcqualter/Eddy can provide....and combine that with a game plan that adds greater scoring flexibility (we just cant rely on the same old suspects up fwd to get the job done week in week out...and our ball transition into fwd 50 has to dramatically improve and become more attacking.....at times.....not all times ofcourse...) we will be a very different proposition yet again.

yeah im hopeful...gotta be.

[bigcarl]

I realise Pies and all sides will say their kids will grow - BUT IMHO not all sides have our quality at the top level. To me IF we can get Steven, Armitage, Geary, Stanley, Simpkin, Heyne, Miles, Smith et al (at varying times ofcourse) to gives us that 10% above and beyond what a Mcqualter/Eddy can provide....and combine that with a game plan that adds greater scoring flexibility (we just cant rely on the same old suspects up fwd to get the job done week in week out...and our ball transition into fwd 50 has to dramatically improve and become more attacking.....at times.....not all times ofcourse...) we will be a very different proposition yet again.

yeah im hopeful...gotta be.

I'm thinking along very similar lines. We're not done yet.

[spert]

Winning a flag is all about team not individuals. Geelong had a good spread of talent across all lines including a couple of standout performers who lifted that little bit when required, all that plus a good run with minimum injuries to top players means you have a good chance to bring home the bacon. We have reached grand finals through hard work, but in the end, we didn't have equal contributions across all lines -too much relied on our back half, while the forward line and to a certain extent the on ballers and mids just ran at the same pace and didn't do that little bit extra. Lenny and BJ the exception. Clearly we overrate some of our players, and the grand final experience, has exposed that. We can still be there in September if we get improvment from the likes of Geary, Steven, Armo and a couple of others. We do need a full forward though.

[SainterK]

We can still be there in September if we get improvment from the likes of Geary, Steven, Armo and a couple of others.

and hopefully they are fit in September, which was more the issue in the end.

[Saintersss]

Its quite obvious we are one year behind. Geelong's core came from the 99-01 draft, while our core is from the 00-02 draft.

We have 1, maybe 2 years left for a real shot.

[Dr Spaceman]

Winning a flag is all about team not individuals. Geelong had a good spread of talent across all lines including a couple of standout performers who lifted that little bit when required, all that plus a good run with minimum injuries to top players means you have a good chance to bring home the bacon. We have reached grand finals through hard work, but in the end, we didn't have equal contributions across all lines -too much relied on our back half, while the forward line and to a certain extent the on ballers and mids just ran at the same pace and didn't do that little bit extra. Lenny and BJ the exception. Clearly we overrate some of our players, and the grand final experience, has exposed that. We can still be there in September if we get improvment from the likes of Geary, Steven, Armo and a couple of others. We do need a full forward though.

We do need more score on the board but Geelong & Collingwood both succeeded without a high scoring Full Forward.

[spert]

Winning a flag is all about team not individuals. Geelong had a good spread of talent across all lines including a couple of standout performers who lifted that little bit when required, all that plus a good run with minimum injuries to top players means you have a good chance to bring home the bacon. We have reached grand finals through hard work, but in the end, we didn't have equal contributions across all lines -too much relied on our back half, while the forward line and to a certain extent the on ballers and mids just ran at the same pace and didn't do that little bit extra. Lenny and BJ the exception. Clearly we overrate some of our players, and the grand final experience, has exposed that. We can still be there in September if we get improvment from the likes of Geary, Steven, Armo and a couple of others. We do need a full forward though.

We do need more score on the board but Geelong & Collingwood both succeeded without a high scoring Full Forward.

Maybe I should have said we need a forward line?

[Dr Spaceman]

Winning a flag is all about team not individuals. Geelong had a good spread of talent across all lines including a couple of standout performers who lifted that little bit when required, all that plus a good run with minimum injuries to top players means you have a good chance to bring home the bacon. We have reached grand finals through hard work, but in the end, we didn't have equal contributions across all lines -too much relied on our back half, while the forward line and to a certain extent the on ballers and mids just ran at the same pace and didn't do that little bit extra. Lenny and BJ the exception. Clearly we overrate some of our players, and the grand final experience, has exposed that. We can still be there in September if we get improvment from the likes of Geary, Steven, Armo and a couple of others. We do need a full forward though.

We do need more score on the board but Geelong & Collingwood both succeeded without a high scoring Full Forward.

Maybe I should have said we need a forward line?

Yep, no doubt it requires a re-jig.

Having said that, we need more scoring from the non forwards as well.

[sunsaint]

In the early days of the naughties I will always remember Bomber quietly getting it on the record that He thought that Gellong had some pretty good kids too (refering to the hype about the Saints kids coming through at the time)
In the end he has been proven correct.
Over the last handful of seasons we have been able to run with Geelong.
But in the end thats all we have been able to do, run with, the win/loss ratios may look pretty good, but they have beaten us when it matters, and won two.

But people, three years ago Malthouse started to move the goal posts
to devise a game plan and build a team which will beat Geelong (with scant regard to the other sides I might add)

Geelong will be thereabouts but Collingwood are the benchmark now.

[Saints43]

Having said that, we need more scoring from the non forwards as well.

We can't have any of the last four years style of Saints Footy and expect more goals from midfielders imo.

It would need a different type of plan and I doubt that will be forthcoming. We really need forwards who can impact the scoreboard as well as hold our defensive structure. Eddy is only young but McQualter has shown that his good season in 2009 is the abberation rather than the many poor seasons he has had.

I have real soft spot for Kos (I think anyone who went week in/week out in 2001 probably does) but it's almost time to chuck him in the ruck and rest him up forward.

A few more goals here and there and we will take a lot of pressure of Roo, Milne and Schneider.

I am sure that part of our chocking in front of goals in finals in the premium on them because we score so few in the tighter game style.

We didn't trade anyone out to free up money so the caoching staff must believe that the players to bolster the starting 21/22 are already on the list.

A kid having an immediate impact straight out of the draft would be fantastic as well (if that is possible at St Kilda)...

[SainterK]

Started a thread about that very thing Saints43, midfielders kicking goals...