The right solution

[PJ]

Since our demise in GF2 it's been interesting watching the reaction from media, supporters and those looking for the reasons. Most of the anguish has been aimed at the players, some on Ross.

With trade week gone and no changes to the list it got me thinking - what do we need to make it happen? I still think we have a seriously good list even if there has been a mountain of criticsm piled on our bottom 6, taggers/negators. IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

To me a big part of the problem was that our game plan came undone - it was too rigid, one dimensional, and we accomodated Collingwood by going back to the same set up that lost us the first half of GF1. So for my money the fact that we have gone for a fresh deck of assistants is exactly what St.Kilda needs.

The challenge is to get those that have been outside the saints bubble to evaluate our strengths and weaknesses. We need input into our game structures - Ross needs a rethink and the best way to do that is to get new heads around him. SOS seemed a little tired at the end and much focus was being paid to his departure, Elshaugh (?) was back after problems so perhaps the team were a little jaded.

We don't need to panic and throw out half the team just a rethink of how we go about it. Look for a fair bit of game tweak in 2011.

[oakleighboy]

The solution:


Move on Kosi

[SainterK]

PJ I agree, our list is looking pretty good...

Our gameplan will evolve with the growth in our defenders IMO, as they evolve into capable backmen one on one, there is a less of a need to push numbers back.

[Dr Spaceman]

The solution:


Move on Kosi

They had asked oakleighboy time and time again to stay away from the computer, but to no avail. They now had no choice!

[busso mick]

The solution:


Move on Kosi

They had asked oakleighboy time and time again to stay away from the computer, but to no avail. They now had no choice!

Lol Dr Spaceman, that is mint! Those surgeon muscle shirts look just like the Ozzie Kookaburras Hockey team! Also with the cast of thousands I'm wondering where is the machine that goes ping?

[#1GILL]

The solution:


Move on Kosi

[bigcarl]

IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

I agree. I'm looking forward to it.

Many outside the club think we've had our chance, blown it and will now slip down the ladder.

That's the perception.

I can't wait for us ... equipped with a significantly tweaked game plan and some fresh faces and legs ... to prove them wrong.

[Brisvegas saint]

IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

I agree. I'm looking forward to it.

Many outside the club think we've had our chance, blown it and will now slip down the ladder.

That's the perception.

I can't wait for us ... equipped with a significantly tweaked game plan and some fresh faces and legs ... to prove them wrong.

I'm quite concerned that we weren't proactive enough in the trade period. We got pantsed by Collingwood for nine out of the last twelve quarters we played them this year, and we've done nothing to improve our list. Meanwhile, rather than resting on their laurels, they went ahead and drafted two players that will probably improve their best 22. Saying we need to rely on youth improvement is a bit of a worry, as I'm sure the pies will also anticipate improvement from some of their youngsters. All I can say is I hope we've got our eye on someone that can really step up in the draft.

[Dr Spaceman]

IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

I agree. I'm looking forward to it.

Many outside the club think we've had our chance, blown it and will now slip down the ladder.

That's the perception.

I can't wait for us ... equipped with a significantly tweaked game plan and some fresh faces and legs ... to prove them wrong.

I'm quite concerned that we weren't proactive enough in the trade period. We got pantsed by Collingwood for nine out of the last twelve quarters we played them this year, and we've done nothing to improve our list. Meanwhile, rather than resting on their laurels, they went ahead and drafted two players that will probably improve their best 22. Saying we need to rely on youth improvement is a bit of a worry, as I'm sure the pies will also anticipate improvement from some of their youngsters. All I can say is I hope we've got our eye on someone that can really step up in the draft.

Tell me after the Lovett saga last year that you would've been happy for the Saints to trade their first round draft pick of a 27 year old ex-con who has never played good footy outside WA.

And do you really think our side would be improved by the inclusion of Chris Tarrant, a 30 year old with inury problems and a desire only to play for the Filth.

As for the rest of the names being bandied around I don't think any of them were going to be match winners for us and indeed many would struggle to get a game.

We may have tried to land a big fish but pulled back when the price was too high. Who knows?

In the end I'm happy to have kept the blokes we've got and not taken other teams scraps.

It's now up to those often mentioned second tier players to really step up and demand selection.

I reckon we'll be okay but either way we're not gonna know for another 5 to 6 months so there's no sense getting too down about it.

[Brisvegas saint]

IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

I agree. I'm looking forward to it.

Many outside the club think we've had our chance, blown it and will now slip down the ladder.

That's the perception.

I can't wait for us ... equipped with a significantly tweaked game plan and some fresh faces and legs ... to prove them wrong.

I'm quite concerned that we weren't proactive enough in the trade period. We got pantsed by Collingwood for nine out of the last twelve quarters we played them this year, and we've done nothing to improve our list. Meanwhile, rather than resting on their laurels, they went ahead and drafted two players that will probably improve their best 22. Saying we need to rely on youth improvement is a bit of a worry, as I'm sure the pies will also anticipate improvement from some of their youngsters. All I can say is I hope we've got our eye on someone that can really step up in the draft.

Tell me after the Lovett saga last year that you would've been happy for the Saints to trade their first round draft pick of a 27 year old ex-con who has never played good footy outside WA.

And do you really think our side would be improved by the inclusion of Chris Tarrant, a 30 year old with inury problems and a desire only to play for the Filth.

As for the rest of the names being bandied around I don't think any of them were going to be match winners for us and indeed many would struggle to get a game.

We may have tried to land a big fish but pulled back when the price was too high. Who knows?

In the end I'm happy to have kept the blokes we've got and not taken other teams scraps.

It's now up to those often mentioned second tier players to really step up and demand selection.

I reckon we'll be okay but either way we're not gonna know for another 5 to 6 months so there's no sense getting too down about it.

As above, we were pantsed 9 / 12 quarters by the filth. Even the first game which we won they had us done at half time but for bad kicking. So, given they've worked to improve their list and we've done SFA, what's to say that the same group of players will get anything more out of themselves next year? Bearing in mind that Gardy will be another year older (if still around), and Jolly and Brown completely owned McEvoy in the ruck.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Krakouer has been on Collingwood's radar since June and has been speaking to them since. Whether he makes it is another chapter. Derek Hine made the final call on Krak and hasn't made many bad calls so I guess they trust what they see.

[Dr Spaceman]

IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

I agree. I'm looking forward to it.

Many outside the club think we've had our chance, blown it and will now slip down the ladder.

That's the perception.

I can't wait for us ... equipped with a significantly tweaked game plan and some fresh faces and legs ... to prove them wrong.

I'm quite concerned that we weren't proactive enough in the trade period. We got pantsed by Collingwood for nine out of the last twelve quarters we played them this year, and we've done nothing to improve our list. Meanwhile, rather than resting on their laurels, they went ahead and drafted two players that will probably improve their best 22. Saying we need to rely on youth improvement is a bit of a worry, as I'm sure the pies will also anticipate improvement from some of their youngsters. All I can say is I hope we've got our eye on someone that can really step up in the draft.

Tell me after the Lovett saga last year that you would've been happy for the Saints to trade their first round draft pick of a 27 year old ex-con who has never played good footy outside WA.

And do you really think our side would be improved by the inclusion of Chris Tarrant, a 30 year old with inury problems and a desire only to play for the Filth.

As for the rest of the names being bandied around I don't think any of them were going to be match winners for us and indeed many would struggle to get a game.

We may have tried to land a big fish but pulled back when the price was too high. Who knows?

In the end I'm happy to have kept the blokes we've got and not taken other teams scraps.

It's now up to those often mentioned second tier players to really step up and demand selection.

I reckon we'll be okay but either way we're not gonna know for another 5 to 6 months so there's no sense getting too down about it.

As above, we were pantsed 9 / 12 quarters by the filth. Even the first game which we won they had us done at half time but for bad kicking. So, given they've worked to improve their list and we've done SFA, what's to say that the same group of players will get anything more out of themselves next year? Bearing in mind that Gardy will be another year older (if still around), and Jolly and Brown completely owned McEvoy in the ruck.

Yeah, but who should we have traded for? How do we know they could be traded for? What would they have cost us?

It's all very well to say we didn't do anything in the trade period however picking up some fringe players isn't going to help us bridge whatever gap it is we need to bridge.

[Brisvegas saint]

Krakouer has been on Collingwood's radar since June and has been speaking to them since. Whether he makes it is another chapter. Derek Hine made the final call on Krak and hasn't made many bad calls so I guess they trust what they see.

Having read through some of the archives, how is this troll still here??? Smug mongrel filth supporters. How are your teeth, buddy?

[Brisvegas saint]

Yeah, but who should we have traded for? How do we know they could be traded for? What would they have cost us?

It's all very well to say we didn't do anything in the trade period however picking up some fringe players isn't going to help us bridge whatever gap it is we need to bridge.

I'm just concerned about blind optimism that internal improvement will get us that much further. Also, after last years trade and draft effort, list management is clearly something we need to improve. Not even talking about Luke Ball here, but the trade for Lovett (as you point out above)- plenty of people, particularly Essendon fans, warned against that one. Then to draft someone like Pattison and delist him after only one year should definitely be graded F. Jesse Smith was a worthwhile gamble (IMO) as there was such a high potential upside. The kid could play.

Re Krakouer, there were people on this board talking him up. Why shouldn't the Saints have a crack at players like this? Anyway my point is, we really seem to be standing still at this stage, when there's fair evidence to suggest that we're not good enough.

[cwrcyn]

We need most of the following players to show hat they have what it takes in 2011 (and be given the ooportunity to do so), or things will start to look a bit worrying:

Stanley
Walsh
Simpkin
Armitage
Smith
Lynch
Heyne




.

[PJ]

when there's fair evidence to suggest that we're not good enough.

This is where I disagree. I can see the ponit that our form against Collingwood is below par but for my money it's about our game plan against them. Our forwardline was just too slow, predictable and the delivery in fairness was crap.

Our midfield needs work no question but I believe we have the players perhaps with one or two additions.

Ross must address the game plan it was rendered ineffective in the first half of GF1 and most of GF2.

There was simply no one of quality that didn't come with a big price tag in the trade week.

[Brisvegas saint]

when there's fair evidence to suggest that we're not good enough.

This is where I disagree. I can see the ponit that our form against Collingwood is below par but for my money it's about our game plan against them. Our forwardline was just too slow, predictable and the delivery in fairness was crap.

Our midfield needs work no question but I believe we have the players perhaps with one or two additions.

Ross must address the game plan it was rendered ineffective in the first half of GF1 and most of GF2.

There was simply no one of quality that didn't come with a big price tag in the trade week.

The other side of it re internal list improvement: surely as our squad is on average around 3 years older than the filth squad, they can be more optimistic about younger players coming along?

[PJ]

The other side of it re internal list improvement: surely as our squad is on average around 3 years older than the filth squad, they can be more optimistic about younger players coming along?

Not really they've just given them more game time - who knows what our youth will do but one things for sure if we go with the same structure we're dead.

[SainterK]

when there's fair evidence to suggest that we're not good enough.

This is where I disagree. I can see the ponit that our form against Collingwood is below par but for my money it's about our game plan against them. Our forwardline was just too slow, predictable and the delivery in fairness was crap.

Our midfield needs work no question but I believe we have the players perhaps with one or two additions.

Ross must address the game plan it was rendered ineffective in the first half of GF1 and most of GF2.

There was simply no one of quality that didn't come with a big price tag in the trade week.

As far as forward lines go over the whole year though...

Roo/Kosi combo 69
Cloke/Dawes combo 68

That's also with Roo missing 13 games.

The difference is there is not the same reliance on their key forwards, with the guys running through their midfielder producing so many goals.

[St Lenny]

To me our biggest problem is the same one we have had for quite a while. Goal kickers.

[hungry for a premiership]

We need most of the following players to show hat they have what it takes in 2011 (and be given the ooportunity to do so), or things will start to look a bit worrying:

Stanley
Walsh
Simpkin
Armitage
Smith
Lynch
Heyne

Steven?

[bigcarl]

To me our biggest problem is the same one we have had for quite a while. Goal kickers.

This is where we need to rethink the defensive forward strategy. Sure, insist that they defend but make it clear their primary role is to kick goals.

We had too many negators and not enough creators in both GFs. McQualter, Eddy, Baker, Dempster ... All good, solid players, but three too many of that type IMO.

Steven, Heyne etc must sense an opportunity.

[borderbarry]

Yeh we had that problem all season. Not enough goal kickers. But in GF2 their midfielders were so dominate as well. Probably helped by no Gardiner.

[Con Gorozidis]

IMO we can be as good if not better than Collingwood and with our younger players pushing from under it will happen.

I agree. I'm looking forward to it.

Many outside the club think we've had our chance, blown it and will now slip down the ladder.

That's the perception.

I can't wait for us ... equipped with a significantly tweaked game plan and some fresh faces and legs ... to prove them wrong.

I'm quite concerned that we weren't proactive enough in the trade period. We got pantsed by Collingwood for nine out of the last twelve quarters we played them this year, and we've done nothing to improve our list. Meanwhile, rather than resting on their laurels, they went ahead and drafted two players that will probably improve their best 22. Saying we need to rely on youth improvement is a bit of a worry, as I'm sure the pies will also anticipate improvement from some of their youngsters. All I can say is I hope we've got our eye on someone that can really step up in the draft.

Tell me after the Lovett saga last year that you would've been happy for the Saints to trade their first round draft pick of a 27 year old ex-con who has never played good footy outside WA.

And do you really think our side would be improved by the inclusion of Chris Tarrant, a 30 year old with inury problems and a desire only to play for the Filth.

As for the rest of the names being bandied around I don't think any of them were going to be match winners for us and indeed many would struggle to get a game.

We may have tried to land a big fish but pulled back when the price was too high. Who knows?

In the end I'm happy to have kept the blokes we've got and not taken other teams scraps.

It's now up to those often mentioned second tier players to really step up and demand selection.

I reckon we'll be okay but either way we're not gonna know for another 5 to 6 months so there's no sense getting too down about it.

As above, we were pantsed 9 / 12 quarters by the filth. Even the first game which we won they had us done at half time but for bad kicking. So, given they've worked to improve their list and we've done SFA, what's to say that the same group of players will get anything more out of themselves next year? Bearing in mind that Gardy will be another year older (if still around), and Jolly and Brown completely owned McEvoy in the ruck.

Yeah, but who should we have traded for? How do we know they could be traded for? What would they have cost us?

It's all very well to say we didn't do anything in the trade period however picking up some fringe players isn't going to help us bridge whatever gap it is we need to bridge.

if u read st_trav_wa on here he was very bullish about krakour the last few months. also how did the pies land jolly and taz? Jolly is hardly a fringe player. He is an AA and a friggin gun at the peak of his powers.

[Nick - Saints Man]

The problem is not with our players (per se) but with our gameplan. Collingwood took the 'Lyon's Gate' or whatever it was called and fixed it so that it would work.

We have a shot at winning the flag next year but we have to hope that

1. Collingwood go backwards, which they might if their game plan isnt adjusted
2. Rossy Lyon is able to look outside the bubble and modify the game plan to absorb the Pie's pressure and rebound it back against them.
3. Our players all stand up next year. Seriously, where was Nick in the grand final?? Zero goals, against an inexperienced defencer? Come on....
4. No other team appears out of nowhere to take a shot at the flag. Geelong are going down, and good riddance to them I say. Oh Id love to take those fuckers on in 2011 get some revenge for last year