Captaincy

[Dr Spaceman]

it's simple really. it's a young man's game and becoming more so. BJ is a better player and thereby in pure terms a better leader, he's younger, he's a midfielder and it's time.

BJ's 25 & Nick's 28.

Gee you'll have Roo in the Shady Acres Retirement Village next

[saint3d]

And two of those games were against an absolute spud.

Yep that spud certainly made him miss a couple of shots by not much. And that spud willed Maxwell to touch another shot on the line.

If it wasn't for that spud, Riewoldt would have a premiership medal and a Norm Smith to go with it.

Clearly he's not cut out to be captain.

[WinnersOnly]

...[/quote]Yep that would be a good look. Replacing maybe the best player in the AFL who has captained the side to 2 GF's in a row. Yep that will do wonders for the club. I dont get it anyway. If BJ is captain why would other players perform better in the GF?[/quote]

Hey Plugger66 you have answered your own statement.

Yes has been Captain in 2 loosing GF's and what did he as supposedly one the leagues best players in the league achieve, in any of those games? He is the highest paid player at the SAINTS by a long way and gave nothing when it counts !

Changes have to be made to win the next flag !

We need to develop a club and playing list of 25 talented players all paid reasonable amounts. Not 10 so called champions all paid well above their team mates and the rest of the team being chumps; because we cant afford anyone else!

[ChicagoSaint]

Changes have to be made to win the next flag !

only if tribal council approve it otherwise B4E may lose his lolly at the AGM

[ChicagoSaint]

it's simple really. it's a young man's game and becoming more so. BJ is a better player and thereby in pure terms a better leader, he's younger, he's a midfielder and it's time.

BJ's 25 & Nick's 28.

Gee you'll have Roo in the Shady Acres Retirement Village next

what if he actually IS past it? what if his best form is a thing of the past? can we afford to ask IF when we know how good BJ is?

[plugger66]

...

Yep that would be a good look. Replacing maybe the best player in the AFL who has captained the side to 2 GF's in a row. Yep that will do wonders for the club. I dont get it anyway. If BJ is captain why would other players perform better in the GF?[/quote]

Hey Plugger66 you have answered your own statement.

Yes has been Captain in 2 loosing GF's and what did he as supposedly one the leagues best players in the league achieve, in any of those games? He is the highest paid player at the SAINTS by a long way and gave nothing when it counts !

Changes have to be made to win the next flag !

We need to develop a club and playing list of 25 talented players all paid reasonable amounts. Not 10 so called champions all paid well above their team mates and the rest of the team being chumps; because we cant afford anyone else![/quote]

Can you explain to me why people will try harder with BJ as Captain because that could be the only reason for a change.

[WinnersOnly]

[/quote]Can you explain to me why people will try harder with BJ as Captain because that could be the only reason for a change.[/quote]

Because ROO has a soft under belly and his team mates know that ! People would follow Lenny into battle because they know everything he does is for the team. I dont think ROO has the same edicate !

[plugger66]

Can you explain to me why people will try harder with BJ as Captain because that could be the only reason for a change.[/quote]

Because ROO has a soft under belly and his team mates know that ! People would follow Lenny into battle because they know everything he does is for the team. I dont think ROO has the same edicate ![/quote]

Roo doesnt have a soft under belly. Ridiculous statement and nearly as stupid as saying the players know that.

[WinnersOnly]

Can you explain to me why people will try harder with BJ as Captain because that could be the only reason for a change.

Because ROO has a soft under belly and his team mates know that ! People would follow Lenny into battle because they know everything he does is for the team. I dont think ROO has the same edicate ![/quote]

Roo doesnt have a soft under belly. Ridiculous statement and nearly as stupid as saying the players know that.[/quote]

Have you seen Lenny cry because he was injured!

When was the last time Roo layed a bone crunching takle or cleaned up an opponent in a contest. He is simply a ball player - he needs the extra ingredient eg Lockett, Carey, Brown when things are going against him/team to go to the next level.

[ChicagoSaint]

FWIW Roo has developed mongrel but that's not entirely the point.

My personal and particular point is that as has been said he's now 28yo.

IMHO Roo is an elite freak of a footballer. Takes more marks than Spencers.

A couple of things though, Kosi is currently a better setshot than him.

BJ. Mercurial. 25yo in a Premiership competition that was won by younger men in 2010.

Has it ALL. Can run, can jump, can mark, can thump, can talk, can walk, can see, can source, can play forward, back, middle attack, defend, befriend, rely, deny, and just try, harder than Roo.

It's not a knock on Roo. It's just reality than the game's become run by younger and yet younger Individuals of which BJ is a better proponent.

[Brisvegas saint]

And two of those games were against an absolute spud.

Yep that spud certainly made him miss a couple of shots by not much. And that spud willed Maxwell to touch another shot on the line.

If it wasn't for that spud, Riewoldt would have a premiership medal and a Norm Smith to go with it.

Clearly he's not cut out to be captain.

You miss the point.

There should be no excuses, he was playing on an ordinary player that he has covered athletically and talent-wise, yet he still missed those easy shots at goal, he still didn't impose himself on either game in any meaningful way. He didn't do what you'd expect of the pre-eminent key forward in the competition, nor what you'd expect from the captain.

[Middo]

Can you explain to me why people will try harder with BJ as Captain because that could be the only reason for a change.[/quote]

Because ROO has a soft under belly and his team mates know that ! People would follow Lenny into battle because they know everything he does is for the team. I dont think ROO has the same edicate ![/quote]

Roo soft..? Your kidding and you also know what his teammates think of him ..? Watch him take that mark running back against the swans a few years back and tell me he's not playing for the team as you seem to suggest.

[Sean]

Rooey is an absolutely fine captain if not one of the best in the competition. It's not the captain we need to change to win a GF but some of the players (Kosi, Dempster, Eddy, McWalter etc) needing to step up on the big stage.

[Brisvegas saint]

Rooey is an absolutely fine captain if not one of the best in the competition. It's not the captain we need to change to win a GF but some of the players (Kosi, Dempster, Eddy, McWalter etc) needing to step up on the big stage.

But Roo quite clearly has failed to step up. And if the captain can't step up, who can? Or do you think his performances in the past three grand finals are satisfactory for a player with his standing in the game?

[rexy]

Theres a lot of talk about how good BJ is!

I think he is the best most complete player on our list, better than Roo

But Roo is a better choice of captain, playing well in big games is not the only requirement of a skipper, the way he handles situations on and off the ground, the example he sets both on the training track and in society, his ability to be self less and concentrate on the well being of others regardless of what he is going through, taking responsibility for the sides short comings but sharing individual successes with team mates. These are the traits of a captain and a leader.

Roo is the best man for the job, loyal selfless, empathetis, professional, intelligent and articulate.

I think BJ would be a great captain and I would imagine if we can retain him as a career saint through free agency and the like that he will be the next to take the reins, but it will not be now IMO.

[Schillaci]

An interesting discussion but that's all this really is ...a few people talking sh*t.
Nick Riewoldt is an absolute champion of the game who commands respect and is admired not only by his teamates but by all of his opponents and anyone who loves the game. Those in the know speak volumes of his professionalism and work ethic. His deeds on the field are inspirational and his willingness to gut run and keep on presenting are often enough to get us over the line. Champion player and Captain Personified.
BJ is a class act who bleeds red, white and black. Would make a great captain. Is not afraid to gather in the troops and shout orders or berate someone not adhering to team rules or standards. His deeds on the field can be inspirational too and you know when the ball is in his hands something good is probably going to happen.
There is no need to change captains though just because we lost our second grand final in two years and it's time for a change. Yes...BJ may have played better in the last couple of weeks and I did see him pull his jumper over his head after our GF loss but that sort of spin doesn't warrant a captaincy change at all.

[Beej]

it's simple really. it's a young man's game and becoming more so. BJ is a better player and thereby in pure terms a better leader, he's younger, he's a midfielder and it's time.

Boy, you really are clueless. This could be the dumbest post I've ever read on here.

How on earth does a better player automatically make a better leader in, and this is my favourite bit, "pure terms".

That would make Robert Harvey one of the greatest skippers the game has ever seen and it would also make Peter Matera a better leader than John Worsfold and would probably make Adam Goodes a better leader than Brett Kirk.

It's a shame everyone is entitled to an opinion because you, my septic friend, do not deserve one with such an idiotic view like that.

[SainterK]

I dont get it anyway. If BJ is captain why would other players perform better in the GF?

Don't know p66.

I've asked a couple of times myself but the pro BJ & pro Lenny posters have not responded.

Maybe it's obvious and we're just to dumb to see it.

My point, which probably differs to others, is that this is about Roo.

He went into the GF trying to live up to being best player in the comp, arguably the best CHF of the modern era, our only chance to win a premiership, probably the most discussed player at the Westpac centre coming into the game.

Quite a lot to shoulder IMO, and I haven't even brought up the expectations of being captain yet.

Not saying he isn't capable, I'm just saying I personally think it's unfair he is carrying all this on his own.

Hopefully I have made my reasoning clear enough.

[Schillaci]

My point, which probably differs to others, is that this is about Roo.

He went into the GF trying to live up to being best player in the comp, arguably the best CHF of the modern era, our only chance to win a premiership, probably the most discussed player at the Westpac centre coming into the game.

Quite a lot to shoulder IMO, and I haven't even brought up the expectations of being captain yet.

Not saying he isn't capable, I'm just saying I personally think it's unfair he is carrying all this on his own.

Hopefully I have made my reasoning clear enough.

So give it all to BJ or whoever so they can have Roo's help and not shoulder it all on their own because Roo's doing it all himself and it's not fair. I get what your saying now....clear as mud.
Riewoldt's a big boy who can handle himself and the team just fine. No need for a change. Enough said.

[SainterK]

My point, which probably differs to others, is that this is about Roo.

He went into the GF trying to live up to being best player in the comp, arguably the best CHF of the modern era, our only chance to win a premiership, probably the most discussed player at the Westpac centre coming into the game.

Quite a lot to shoulder IMO, and I haven't even brought up the expectations of being captain yet.

Not saying he isn't capable, I'm just saying I personally think it's unfair he is carrying all this on his own.

Hopefully I have made my reasoning clear enough.

So give it all to BJ or whoever so they can have Roo's help and not shoulder it all on their own because Roo's doing it all himself and it's not fair. I get what your saying now....clear as mud.
Riewoldt's a big boy who can handle himself and the team just fine. No need for a change. Enough said.

My sentiments, which is why I said IMO, and used phrases like "I personally think"

Enough said is a pretty concrete way to end yours though Schillaci

[Schillaci]

My point, which probably differs to others, is that this is about Roo.

He went into the GF trying to live up to being best player in the comp, arguably the best CHF of the modern era, our only chance to win a premiership, probably the most discussed player at the Westpac centre coming into the game.

Quite a lot to shoulder IMO, and I haven't even brought up the expectations of being captain yet.

Not saying he isn't capable, I'm just saying I personally think it's unfair he is carrying all this on his own.

Hopefully I have made my reasoning clear enough.

So give it all to BJ or whoever so they can have Roo's help and not shoulder it all on their own because Roo's doing it all himself and it's not fair. I get what your saying now....clear as mud.
Riewoldt's a big boy who can handle himself and the team just fine. No need for a change. Enough said.

My sentiments, which is why I said IMO, and used phrases like "I personally think"

Enough said is a pretty concrete way to end yours though Schillaci

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even if it's the wrong one. Enough said.

[busso mick]

If we had won the granny would this be even open to discussion? Roo and BJ are both great footballers and history will likely judge them as champion players of our club.

The big point that a lot have failed to mention is that Roo was out for half a season with a serious injury. He managed through through sheer hard work and dedication to the team to come back and play a big part in our season.

I would suggest everyone revisit this discussion in a year when Roo will have had a pre-season and a year of dominating for the Saints in 2011. Before his injury he looked on the verge of ripping the competition apart. Judging him on performances in two Grand Finals when the ball bearly got over half way is hardly indicative of his importance to our club and team.

For the record that little gangster Daniel Kerr didn't even come back and play this year after incurring the same injury as Roo at around the same time. So before people open their gobs and make big calls about our skipper have a good hard think about the big picture.

[bigcarl]

The problem with Rooey as skipper is that he considers it his personal responsibility to single-handedly bring a flag to St Kilda.

That is an admirable goal but the flip side is that consequently he puts himself under enormous pressure to perform.

It's a heavy cross to bear and occasionally I see him buckling under the weight of his own impossibly high standards.

For mine he stays captain if he still wants to do it, but the club must do everything possible to ease the burden on him having to kick us a winning score.

That should include:

ANOTHER goal-kicking key forward (Not you Kosi)

NO purely defensive forwards (All should be able to win the ball and kick goals).

A GAME PLAN that doesn't continually put the entire forward line behind the ball

A GAME PLAN more skewed towards kicking winning scores than holding opposition teams to losing scores.

MORE marking options. Gilbert, Riewoldt AND Stanley or Walsh maybe.

QUICKER and more direct movement of the ball. (Maybe most important of all).

Riewoldt is a champion and it nearly breaks my heart to see the kind of pressure he puts himself under to bring our club success. He's got to remember that it is a team game and that he can't do it all himself. No one can.

[Sean]

Rooey is an absolutely fine captain if not one of the best in the competition. It's not the captain we need to change to win a GF but some of the players (Kosi, Dempster, Eddy, McWalter etc) needing to step up on the big stage.

But Roo quite clearly has failed to step up. And if the captain can't step up, who can? Or do you think his performances in the past three grand finals are satisfactory for a player with his standing in the game?

No but I think Roo was hampered by a few injuries in the Grand Final. This probably effected his performance. BJ was the best for us in GF2.

[ChicagoSaint]

Boy, you really are clueless. This could be the dumbest post I've ever read on here.
It's a shame everyone is entitled to an opinion because you, my septic friend, do not deserve one with such an idiotic view like that.

IF GODS PLAYED FOR COLLINGWOOD HE'D BE A CAPTAIN