Thomo's view on our loss, and comments on the HS

[SainterK]

Saints only have themselves to blame

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx?bl ... ments=true

Since when are they Gary Lyon's lads?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/g ... 5934068737

[SydneySainter]

Not a GT fan, but not a bad read. Maybe there is something to the point about coaching the natural instinct out of the playing group.

[WinnersOnly]

Simplicist answer just like his coaching ! Although I agree with him in part it is a simplicist response to what became a bigger problem.

I think his most relevant point was that Collingwood continued with their 'end of season' function. I think it gave there players the respite required after such a huge day.

I have always believed Ross LYON is afraid to dare to win and his whole coaching philosophy revolves around this. It is difficult to play attacking football when you are being smashed out of the middle. But an attacking mindset by 22 players does create a flow on affect where things do go your way eg Pies.

Because of the stats in the first game Ross became to sheltered with his approach to the replay and we got flogged !

[saintsRrising]

I don't disagree with all GT has said.

But 1 goals ******** 9 behinds does not put on scoreboard pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!

BJ might disagree too about the lack of exciting players with flair.

Where the Pies a better team when Daisy was given his head....or now that he is also a very team focussed player that goes in and hard, including into packs?

Gone too the exciting Medhurst and Davis as forwards, both replaced with more team focussed replacements.

Pies won because they executed team play to the letter......plus they on the day executed their skills better.

When you do all the teams things the game goes your way.....lucky bounces favour you, but only because you have run hard to be on the outside of the pack.


The Saints do need to score better...but this is not going to be achieved by the oudated notion of just giving players their head.

[gringo]

It sounds like me, s***. I think he is probably just taking out what was easy to observe from that game.

It is actually a great game plan for removing the variables, but whenever we play against teams that throw caution to the wind we seem to lose.

[Beej]

I have always believed Ross LYON is afraid to dare to win and his whole coaching philosophy revolves around this.

I think Ross is so meticulous in his preparation and so mechanical in his approach to it that he must leave little room for the human, more emotional side of the game.

Everything is calculated. It's all stats and numbers. There really is very little daring with him, as GT said.

They say a team's style is a reflection of the coach's character which I have always believed and it's hard to disagree with that when you look at St Kilda.

Not saying it's a good or a bad thing, just an observation.

[spert]

How many grand finals under GT? He had a great team in 2004 and blew it.

[Con Gorozidis]

i just read this now. i have been posting similar thoughts in another thread.

he is right. we are awesome when we dont have the ball. but we need to do much better when we have it. i

reckon we played about 10 good quarters of footy in 2010 where we moved it fast and clean.

[Mr Magic]

i just read this now. i have been posting similar thoughts in another thread.

he is right. we are awesome when we dont have the ball. but we need to do much better when we have it. i

reckon we played about 10 good quarters of footy in 2010 where we moved it fast and clean.

So the second half of the Rnd 13 game (vs Geelong) was not good footy?

[Spinner]

If I wanted advice to 'coach' a team to a prelim.... Id ask GT.

Anything other than that he can shove it.



We lost a gf by a kick...and drew the next one.... The way jouralists are sticking the boots in, you would have thought we had finished last.


BTW... GT used to let the players just go out there and play... Is that what he means by flare? Maybe he means 'uncoached'?

[rodgerfox]

We lost a gf by a kick...and drew the next one.... The way jouralists are sticking the boots in, you would have thought we had finished last.

And you're content with that?

And secondly, are you content for the club to not look frankly and honestly at areas they failed in in order to improve?


If anyone single person at the club uses your line above, then nothing will change.

[SainterK]

We lost a gf by a kick...and drew the next one.... The way jouralists are sticking the boots in, you would have thought we had finished last.

And you're content with that?

And secondly, are you content for the club to not look frankly and honestly at areas they failed in in order to improve?


If anyone single person at the club uses your line above, then nothing will change.

I'm pretty confident they wouldn't be content...

[saintspremiers]

How many grand finals under GT? He had a great team in 2004 and blew it.

exactly, but he is paid to write rubbish now, and that is exactly what he does so well.

[Spinner]

We lost a gf by a kick...and drew the next one.... The way jouralists are sticking the boots in, you would have thought we had finished last.

And you're content with that?

And secondly, are you content for the club to not look frankly and honestly at areas they failed in in order to improve?


If anyone single person at the club uses your line above, then nothing will change.

Sorry mate... Does it say im content with that on your computer?

It doesnt on mine.



To address your third point....Not sure I mentioned people from the club... I think I mentioned journalists... you even quoted the word journalists. As I wrote it, and as you would have interpreted it... a fair amount of s*** has been written as if we had just finsihed last for the eighth year in a row....

We have massive holes to fill... We are not a basket case thou.

[Nicky Winmore]

GT is spot on with everything he states in this article.

He is passionate about St Kilda & very objective. The coaching panel need to heed his observations.

[Teflon]

I don't disagree with all GT has said.

But 1 goals ******** 9 behinds does not put on scoreboard pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!

BJ might disagree too about the lack of exciting players with flair.

Where the Pies a better team when Daisy was given his head....or now that he is also a very team focussed player that goes in and hard, including into packs?

Gone too the exciting Medhurst and Davis as forwards, both replaced with more team focussed replacements.

Pies won because they executed team play to the letter......plus they on the day executed their skills better.

When you do all the teams things the game goes your way.....lucky bounces favour you, but only because you have run hard to be on the outside of the pack.


The Saints do need to score better...but this is not going to be achieved by the oudated notion of just giving players their head.

This article sums up everything about Thomas' coaching that screams "simplistic"......when we lost under him it was "mental toughness"......he could never pin point where we broke down and more importantly how he was going to fix.....always "hearts and mind' mumbo jumbo drivel.

SR is spot on above - 2 reasons pies canned us:

1. STRUCTURES - Theyve now learnt it (I suspect a tad off Lyon/Saints 09)

2. EXECUTION - They did and as Roos so eloquently pointed out in a great read in the Hun......THEY DONT CARRY THE "ROLE" (SEE CLOGGERS) WE DO.

Grants old hat. Im sure his style was great at Warnambool.....but this is the big league and you need a little more than "mental belief"

[Nicky Winmore]

Yes teflon structures & execution are important but we all know that this game us played 90% above the shoulders.

Gilbert couldn't hit the side of a barn door when it counted but had no problem slotting a goal later in the game when it didn't.

[Ghost Like]

I don't disagree with all GT has said.

But 1 goals ******** 9 behinds does not put on scoreboard pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!

BJ might disagree too about the lack of exciting players with flair.

Where the Pies a better team when Daisy was given his head....or now that he is also a very team focussed player that goes in and hard, including into packs?

Gone too the exciting Medhurst and Davis as forwards, both replaced with more team focussed replacements.

Pies won because they executed team play to the letter......plus they on the day executed their skills better.

When you do all the teams things the game goes your way.....lucky bounces favour you, but only because you have run hard to be on the outside of the pack.


The Saints do need to score better...but this is not going to be achieved by the oudated notion of just giving players their head.

This article sums up everything about Thomas' coaching that screams "simplistic"......when we lost under him it was "mental toughness"......he could never pin point where we broke down and more importantly how he was going to fix.....always "hearts and mind' mumbo jumbo drivel.

SR is spot on above - 2 reasons pies canned us:

1. STRUCTURES - Theyve now learnt it (I suspect a tad off Lyon/Saints 09)

2. EXECUTION - They did and as Roos so eloquently pointed out in a great read in the Hun......THEY DONT CARRY THE "ROLE" (SEE CLOGGERS) WE DO.

Grants old hat. Im sure his style was great at Warnambool.....but this is the big league and you need a little more than "mental belief"

His style was great at Brisbane, pity they invented it, perfected it & cashed in on it, we just copied it but at a time teams were learning to diffuse it. Bit like getting a Nokia when the iPhone's just been released.

Collingwood definately learnt our defensive structure and forward pressure as they were hopeless in that area last year which was why they could not beat us. However their ball movement (boundary line guided) they have been practising for at least 3 seasons. The defensive mindset came together with the acquisition of Ball & Max.

[Teflon]

Yes teflon structures & execution are important but we all know that this game us played 90% above the shoulders.

Gilbert couldn't hit the side of a barn door when it counted but had no problem slotting a goal later in the game when it didn't.

Gilbert slotted a very good goal in GF1 that launched our comeback.

Sure "above the shoulders" is important but please we cant revert purely to these tired old cliche coaching comments.....and what did Thomas do to address our "mental toughness".....that's right....took us all to South Agrica to "grow'......frk me....the guys a good media performer...thats all.

[GTRAIN]

We need a proper skills coach, our disposal and use of the ball this year has cost us goals we can't afford, im sick of drafting players with s*** disposal especially under pressure, everyone can bag players and i'm sure the club is hearing us but what the F**k do they ever do to change things absolutely nothing. Kosi is a CENTRE HALF BACK full stop, not a ruck and not a forward and if he isn't put there next year trade him . Who cares who's captain all they do is toss the coin, Lenny is and always will be our real captain, no water works there, roo really is toooooo soft and needs to harden up like carey, WE WILL BE RIGHT AND REMEMBER SINCE 1897-1996 only 4 GF'S AND SINCE 1997-2010 where 4 GF'S where creating a new improved dynasty.

[Moods]

We need a proper skills coach, our disposal and use of the ball this year has cost us goals we can't afford, im sick of drafting players with s*** disposal especially under pressure, everyone can bag players and i'm sure the club is hearing us but what the F**k do they ever do to change things absolutely nothing. Kosi is a CENTRE HALF BACK full stop, not a ruck and not a forward and if he isn't put there next year trade him . Who cares who's captain all they do is toss the coin, Lenny is and always will be our real captain, no water works there, roo really is toooooo soft and needs to harden up like carey, WE WILL BE RIGHT AND REMEMBER SINCE 1897-1996 only 4 GF'S AND SINCE 1997-2010 where 4 GF'S where creating a new improved dynasty.

Talk about simplistic Yeah, a good skills coach will fix everything. It's our decision making not the skills that need looking at. Skills will only improve so much at that level.

Kosi's a CHB is he? Get real. Can you imagine Kosi playing on Lance Franklin or jonathon Brown? He would be gasping for air in 15min.

Roo is too soft? You want him to play like carey? So he's going to run around crashing packs and intimidating blokes is he?

I'm sick to death of know nothing's getting on here bagging our captain

[widereceiver]

I recall Thommo's Plan A style of coaching - we were attractive to look at and winning, until the other teams figured out how to stop us. He had no Plan B, so with arguably a better list we lost 2 prelims in a row.

Now, with 20/20 hindsight, he claims to have the answers. Why would anyone pay attention to his garbage?

[samoht]

It really is that simple -

Once you have the ball you need to use is decisively, move it quickly and well (with precision) - we didn't and they did.

In simple terms ..

If you don't use it well - you're putting pressure on yourself even before your opponent does ... you're helping your opponent out.

Conversely ..
if you use it well you're taking the pressure off yourself and reapplying it back on your opponent where it should be.

So to put a crude analogy on it - the difference between using it well to not using it well .. is a 2 pressure turnaround - like a 2 goal turnaround.

So you can't afford not to use the ball when you have it.

So plan A is to use the ball better than your opponent .. if you do you don't need plan B or C.