How about this for an idea?

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

For all those with open minds and some guts.

I was listening to 3LO (I think it was) this afternoon and Mark McLure and Peter Schwab were discussing the game. They got around to the injury queries and Michael Gardiner came up. They asked whether they thought Big Mac was a certainty to come in, to replace him and I think both of them said we might be better off actually bringing in a "runner", to replace Gardi.

They thought Gardi going off injured actually worked in our favour, because it gave us more mobility and they thought Blake and Kosi ran Jolly off his feet. So they both seemed to think we'd be better off replacing Gardi with someone like Geary, or Armitage, to give us more run overall and let Blake and Kosi take on Jolly and Brown again. Many others I've heard since yesterday also seem to concur that Kosi has more influence in the ruck, than at FF.

They both thought Gilbert's move up to the forward line (making Maxwell accountable) was pivotal, from memory, as many others have, and that we should probably do it again. Someone also asked on here after yesterday what we can do next week to get Roo into the game more, after he only had a fairly minor influence/impact yesterday (as he and Kosi also did (up forward) in our other two games against them this year). Which brings me to this idea:

Name Gardi in the ruck this week, even though he's not going to play (if he has done his hammy) and name Mac and probably Rhys on our emergency list, so the Pies figure one will come in for Gardi. Then do a "rope-a-dope" and bring in either Gears, Armo, or Miles (probably Miles, as back-up for Gilbo down back).

Play Roo on the wing and revert back to the sort of forward line that served us so well in his absence, minus Kosi (who did little up forward in Roo's absence anyway), who would be playing in the ruck for much of the time. In other words, our forward line would basically revolve around Milne, as the main target, with most likely Harry O on him again (this takes Harry O out of the play a lot and Milne usually does really well as the main target, even on those much bigger than him). Not many others would be in there, to try and isolate Milne and O'Brien (and open up the forward line) and Gilbert would be on Maxwell again, although Maxwell may have to go to Roo on the wing, as he's one of very few who would be able to go with him there. This would of course take Maxwell out of his comfort zone and most likely limit his ability to cut off leads, which he does so well, and did so much yesterday.

Having Roo on the wing would bring Roo right into the game and he could run someone ragged, up and down the ground, as Richo did in his latter years. He's just as likely to kick as many (or more) goals, as he did yesterday (2), as he's so strong running towards goal, but will almost certainly have more influence on the game overall, by getting a heap more marks/possies. He would also provide us with that essential "get-out-target", from our quick kicks out of the backline. This is essential against them because, as Geelong found the week before and we found yesterday, trying to handball it out of the back 50 is asking for trouble against them.

This forward set-up would of course also mean there may not be suitable match-up's for Ben Reid and Nathan Brown (or Presti, if they bring him in), which would mean they may have to spend much of the game on the bench, which would severely disrupt Collingwood's structure, and ability to rotate "runners" off the bench.

Overall this would not take all that much adjusting for us, as we had this sort of set-up for much of the year, and could practise it all week, whereas it would probably disrupt Collingwood's structure and ability to rotate off the bench in a significant way and would probably catch them way off guard.

We almost won yesterday and only kicked 10 goals, and I have little doubt we could kick at least 10 next week, with the forward set-up I mentioned, with Roo, Kosi, Gilbo and BJ pushing hard forward, when it goes in there relatively slowly (to provide marking targets).

Opening up our forward line would also mean we would be able to push more numbers into defense, to crowd their forward line and make it even tougher for them to kick goals.

If it didn't work out, we could of course revert back to having Roo and Kosi forward, when Kosi isn't in the ruck, but I don't see why it wouldn't, as we did so well with it for most of the time Roo was out. It would also not be that much different from our set-up of the 2nd half yesterday. About the only difference would be Roo moving from FF to the wing.

Conversely, having Roo and Kosi as the main targets this year against them (until Roo was injured in R3 and in the two games since) has not worked out very well, with Roo and Kosi having only minimal influence (granted that in R16 Roo was 2nd up from injury).

They may turn it around this week, and yesterday showed that we can compete even when they don't kick many goals, but if not, this is another way to go.

Whichever way they go, GO SAINTERSSSSSS!!!!!!

[SaintWal]

I think Kosi will find it very hard next week back to back. Start with your normal forward set up IMO. It was not the forwards that were our problem in the first half.

This week also proves one thing. Injuries are huge in Ruck positions. we got away with this one with Gardi. If, touch wood, Blake or kosi went down without Big Ben we might as well hand Jolly a Norm Smith.

[SaintWal]

Oh and I forgot

In Ross we trust

[mad saint guy]

Kosi in the ruck and Roo on a wing? I don't see us kicking a winning score. I think it was a good move going into the game with just one ruckman, but I think it would be a mistake to go in without one. McEvoy can ruck for 50% of the game and provide a forward option when needed. It ensures we've got marking options and Kosi is fresh for his bursts rather than toiling away all match and hobbling around by the last quarter.

I felt we kicked it to Roo too often after Gards went down because Kosi wasn't presenting because he was buggered or on the bench from rucking.

[rexy]

If we wanted to replace Gards with amrunner I would have thought we would either include Geary, keep Gilbert forward and use Geary down back instead of Gram, that puts Gram back in the middle/wing. Or include Stanley as the ruckman and have him and Kosi swap on Jolley and Blake do the same job on Brown.

More likely that Mac will come in though.

Interesting that Malthouse named Fraser as a possible in? mind games or reality?

[saint66au]

All very well excelt we have no "runners" per se to bring in

Geary and Armitage would be beaten in a sprint by at leat half the Collingwood side Id think. They are not quick and Geary turns the ball over far too much

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I think Kosi will find it very hard next week back to back. Start with your normal forward set up IMO. It was not the forwards that were our problem in the first half.

This week also proves one thing. Injuries are huge in Ruck positions. we got away with this one with Gardi. If, touch wood, Blake or kosi went down without Big Ben we might as well hand Jolly a Norm Smith.

That would obviously be the major risk with going this way, but then again, you'd be stiff to have it happen two weeks in a row. And if Jolly was as tired as some have suggested, he may find it hard to back up again this week.

[mbogo]

Big Macca will kick a goal or two after marking in the forward line this week. Much needed.
Had Gardy not gone down we surely would not have gone cactus in the second - I think Coll benefited from us struggling to re-structure before the break.
Kossie was brilliant and should again share the ruck duties.
This part is interesting: Goddard on one wing and Roo on the other - matchup nightmare for Collingwood. If Goddard played on the wing (he seemed to have several roles) it was one of the best wing games ever - at full back one minute and full forward the next.

[3rd generation saint]

As I said in the other post, Benny Mac will have the advantage of week off, is a little more mobile than both Gardiner and Jolly and he could do a great job running Jolly around as well as drifting forward to tkae a few grabs and kick a goal or two.

[eppo67]

Spot on 3rd Gen. Saint I think people are forgetting how mobile Big Mac is for his size 200+ cm.

He is very mobile has a big tank and good at ground level and in the air he is auto in for me especially if it is dry.

[saintsRrising]

Points:

1/ picking Gardi in 22 would not fool anyone. Everyone knows he is gone and even Gardi has already said he will not be playing.


2/ Kosi goes ok in the ruck in bursts sometimes. Playinga lot of the game there would bea big risk for mine. Morseo as Kosi has had some niggles...and so running a lot next week after this week would bea big test.

3/. Big Ben is 100% fresh and rested and raring to go. Fit players will be vital in the GF..anda ruckman as fresh as Ben will allow more midfield rotations. This is important. Is capable of a big mark up forward too.

[stevie]

Yeah, Ben in. Kosi and Blakey did well but it was wet things would be different.

Why didn't Milney spend time in the midfield like against the Cats?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Here's what I'm expecting:

Blake to go v L Brown again.

McEvoy in for Gardiner, and to ratate with Kosi between forward and ruck in order to make life tough for Jolly. As good as Kosi was, Jolly was probably better, so I think I'd like the rotation option, as well as the extra forward target.

Gilbert to play forward by default and rotate back loose if we can get the lead as a trade-off for Maxwell.

The other that I wouldn't think likely, but wouldn't surprise me is Geary in for Eddy.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Kosi in the ruck and Roo on a wing? I don't see us kicking a winning score.

How much different would it be from the games we played this year when Roo was out injured? Kosi was only kicking about a goal a week at that stage, so we managed to do very well, especially once we got used to Roo not being there. Once we did, we won almost every game and Kosi hardly got a touch. We even beat Geelong very convincingly and much of our success during that time revolved around Milne doing brilliantly, at effectively full forward. He leads superbly and in marking contests manages to beat those much bigger and stronger on a regular basis, like Harry O in the last quarter on Saturday and Josh Hunt in the 2nd quarter in the final against Geelong. He's especially good at working them under the ball and getting it out the back, as we've probably all seen.
As I said, we won most games with this sort of set-up without Roo there, but there would be one major difference this week. Roo WOULD be there (barring a catastrophe, touch wood), galloping up and down the ground, giving us an option out of defence and pushing hard into the forward line.
The other major advantage of this set-up would be that, if it was just shorter guys in our forward 50 (for us and them), Roo would be running hard into the 50 with no tall timber to contend with. He'd probably be leaving someone like Maxwell in his wake and then he'd be able to launch himself over the top of the likes of O'brien (like Goddard did) etc. That would be very tasty indeed.
He could easily kick 6 playing mainly on the wing and Milne could kick a few as well, plus how ever many others we get from everyone else. We could very conceivably win easily with this setup, especially if we were able to crowd their forward line more, making it harder for them to score.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

All very well excelt we have no "runners" per se to bring in

Geary and Armitage would be beaten in a sprint by at leat half the Collingwood side Id think. They are not quick and Geary turns the ball over far too much

I did suggest Miles, and as we saw at half time on Saturday, he can certainly run, but it was McLure and Schwab who used the word "runner". I was very impressed with Miles in the game he played earlier this year and he's not afraid to take them on, when running out of defense.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

As I said in the other post, Benny Mac will have the advantage of week off, is a little more mobile than both Gardiner and Jolly and he could do a great job running Jolly around as well as drifting forward to tkae a few grabs and kick a goal or two.

True and I expect he will come in and I was shocked that he didn't play last Saturday, but as I said in the main post, one major advantage of going in with a smaller side is that it would leave Ben Reid and Nathan Brown/Presti with no obvious roles, which could really make a mess of Collingwood's structure and ability to rotate "runners" off the bench. This would probably be more of an inconvenience to them than not having Mac would be to us.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Points:

1/ picking Gardi in 22 would not fool anyone. Everyone knows he is gone and even Gardi has already said he will not be playing.


2/ Kosi goes ok in the ruck in bursts sometimes. Playinga lot of the game there would bea big risk for mine. Morseo as Kosi has had some niggles...and so running a lot next week after this week would bea big test.

3/. Big Ben is 100% fresh and rested and raring to go. Fit players will be vital in the GF..anda ruckman as fresh as Ben will allow more midfield rotations. This is important. Is capable of a big mark up forward too.

1/ At the time I wrote this Gardi hadn't said that and naming him was not the thing designed to fool them, it was who we would bring in that probably catch them off guard, especially if we didn't announce the change till the same time they hand in their final team (90 mins before the bounce). I was initially thinking that we'd name Mac in the team on Thurs night, but then swap him with someone like Miles at the last minute Saturday, but I thought that would be too cruel to Ben, so this other option came to mind
2/ I didn't say it wouldn't be a risk, that's definitely a possibility, if not likely.
3/ Ben will be fresh, but so would anyone else we brought in, such as Miles, or Geary.

[InkerSaint]

Jolly was running out of puff well before the game was out, and will be worse for it this week. Bring Big Mac in and press the advantage I say.

[Thinline]

Jolly was running out of puff well before the game was out, and will be worse for it this week. Bring Big Mac in and press the advantage I say.

Huge inclusion for us. HUGE.

[matrix]

theres a big long button at the bottom of the keyboard
it makes it soooooooo much easier to read

when theres

spaces

[maz1685]

I think the 2nd half comeback had more to do with the mentality of the players as opposed to the player we lost.
I think knowing that they had to play 1 man down forced them to lift their intensity, they knew they would have to go in harder.

Unfortunately it's not a theory that can really be tested.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

theres a big long button at the bottom of the keyboard
it makes it soooooooo much easier to read

when theres

spaces

Point taken. How many would you like?

Done. Ask and ye shall receive.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Points:

1/ picking Gardi in 22 would not fool anyone. Everyone knows he is gone and even Gardi has already said he will not be playing.

Maybe they will name him after all: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... public_rss
Would not surprise at all if they at least name him on Thursday.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

On second thoughts, why don't we just play right into Collingwood's hands and set up exactly the way they want us to, like we did today.

[saintsRrising]

On second thoughts, why don't we just play right into Collingwood's hands and set up exactly the way they want us to, like we did today.

So not picking Gardi as a decoy selection cost us the GF???

FFS.....the Pies had 22 players playing well taday. We had half of that.

Having Gardi as a :fake" selection would have maded SQUAT difference.