Breakdown of our talent
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 153 times
Breakdown of our talent
This is my two cents as to how I see the talent depth on our list:
Superstars:
None
Genuine A-Graders:
Steven
Carlisle
B-Graders who could be A grade:
Ross
Billings
Gresham
Sinclair
Membrey
Acres
Dunstan
McCartin
Steele
Roberton
Genuine B-Graders:
Bruce
Weller
Brown
Geary
GOPs:
Longer
Stevens
Newnes
Webster
Lonie
Could be anything:
Hickey
Long
Battle
Clark
Coffield
Goddard
Marshal
White
Close to retirement:
Armitage
Gilbert
Time running out:
Freeman
Pierce
I've probably missed a few players, but based on my thoughts above, I think we actually have some pretty good depth, more so than most teams and certainly a lot than our grand final era. Especially if players on the cusp of A grade make to the next level.
However, our achilles is heel is still clearly the lack of star power, in that we don't have any. Whilst our 09/10 grand final list fell well short once we got to the bottom 6, we still had a top 7 of Roo, Hayes, Dal, Joey, BJ, Fisher and Milne - arguably all stars but at the very least all genuine A-graders.
Thoughts?
Superstars:
None
Genuine A-Graders:
Steven
Carlisle
B-Graders who could be A grade:
Ross
Billings
Gresham
Sinclair
Membrey
Acres
Dunstan
McCartin
Steele
Roberton
Genuine B-Graders:
Bruce
Weller
Brown
Geary
GOPs:
Longer
Stevens
Newnes
Webster
Lonie
Could be anything:
Hickey
Long
Battle
Clark
Coffield
Goddard
Marshal
White
Close to retirement:
Armitage
Gilbert
Time running out:
Freeman
Pierce
I've probably missed a few players, but based on my thoughts above, I think we actually have some pretty good depth, more so than most teams and certainly a lot than our grand final era. Especially if players on the cusp of A grade make to the next level.
However, our achilles is heel is still clearly the lack of star power, in that we don't have any. Whilst our 09/10 grand final list fell well short once we got to the bottom 6, we still had a top 7 of Roo, Hayes, Dal, Joey, BJ, Fisher and Milne - arguably all stars but at the very least all genuine A-graders.
Thoughts?
Last edited by SydneySainter on Tue 24 Apr 2018 2:48pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bad management is bad management
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Sun 22 May 2005 11:42pm
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 90 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
I agree. It's the opposite problem to the one we've had since I started supporting the club -- heaps of A-graders but no depth.
I'm not sure how we get top-shelf talent into the club though. If we get a free agent like Sloan or Gaff and an A-grade mid in the draft that would be a start. But I can't see the likes of Kelly or Shield coming. They'll be heading to the likes of Hawthorn if they go anywhere.![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
I'm not sure how we get top-shelf talent into the club though. If we get a free agent like Sloan or Gaff and an A-grade mid in the draft that would be a start. But I can't see the likes of Kelly or Shield coming. They'll be heading to the likes of Hawthorn if they go anywhere.
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
- Sainter_Dad
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6285
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
- Has thanked: 260 times
- Been thanked: 1097 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Yep - that way they can throw elbows to the back of the head behind play and only pay $1,500.00 for the priveledge.suss wrote: They'll be heading to the likes of Hawthorn if they go anywhere.
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3353
- Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm
- Has thanked: 169 times
- Been thanked: 516 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Can't have Steven as an A Grader. Love his run and carry and ability to win the ball but his foot disposal to me is just not good enough to be an A grader. McCartin i think perhaps goes in the "Could be anything category " as only just played 5 games in a row for the first time. Steele probably to B also . To me Acres most likely to make jump to A Grade by seasons end.
Pretty good list , i must admit i am a tough marker get so annoyed nowadays with commentators talking about how great a player is after 10 games of footy, and don't get me started how the champion is just thrown around willy nilly..haha
Pretty good list , i must admit i am a tough marker get so annoyed nowadays with commentators talking about how great a player is after 10 games of footy, and don't get me started how the champion is just thrown around willy nilly..haha
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
You missed Geary.
Hopefully Phillips, Paton, Austin and Langlands come good. Heck if even two of those four come good then we would be well pleased.
I don't think Goddard is in the 'could be anything' category'. Most likely a bust.
I don't see Hickey ever really making it.
Hopefully Phillips, Paton, Austin and Langlands come good. Heck if even two of those four come good then we would be well pleased.
I don't think Goddard is in the 'could be anything' category'. Most likely a bust.
I don't see Hickey ever really making it.
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 153 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Don’t know how I forgot Geary. No disrespect to our captain, he’s in the Genuine B grade cateorgy.Con Gorozidis wrote:You missed Geary.
Hopefully Phillips, Paton, Austin and Langlands come good. Heck if even two of those four come good then we would be well pleased.
I don't think Goddard is in the 'could be anything' category'. Most likely a bust.
I don't see Hickey ever really making it.
Bad management is bad management
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4882
- Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009 3:05pm
- Has thanked: 327 times
- Been thanked: 465 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
An A grader to me is someone of AA catagory. We have none. Sounds harsh, but look at our 04-10 teams? In 09 we had 5 or 6 players AA. Look back on all our champions. All have been AA at some stage. Roo, Lenny, Dal, Milney, BJ, Fish. And before we had Harves, Gehrig, Burkey, Loewey.
Sounds harsh. But I still don't think we have any genuine A grade talent. We have some very good B grade players who on their day can be A grade. But they're not consistent enough. Jack is the classic example.
All this aside I take the OP's point. There is potential to transform this list. Ordinary footballers or more to the point, footballers who are playing ordinary all too often like Billings and Paddy, can become very good footballers very quickly depending on circumstances. Some guys like Newnes, Geary, Webster etc are destined to be very good battlers. Nothing wrong with that. Stevie Baker made a career out of being a very good battler. They are incredibly important players. More important are the stars though
Sounds harsh. But I still don't think we have any genuine A grade talent. We have some very good B grade players who on their day can be A grade. But they're not consistent enough. Jack is the classic example.
All this aside I take the OP's point. There is potential to transform this list. Ordinary footballers or more to the point, footballers who are playing ordinary all too often like Billings and Paddy, can become very good footballers very quickly depending on circumstances. Some guys like Newnes, Geary, Webster etc are destined to be very good battlers. Nothing wrong with that. Stevie Baker made a career out of being a very good battler. They are incredibly important players. More important are the stars though
- Linton Lodger
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2467
- Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
- Has thanked: 86 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
- bigred
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11463
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:39am
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 609 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Billings is not a B grader.
At all.
At all.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Good question.starsign wrote:Forgive me my memory fades but who were all the A graders in the Bulldogs Premiership lineup ?
The media love the Bont. Over rated imo.
Libba and Wood had freak years.
MacRae and Hunter are handy.
But I agree with you. I don't think any of them are genuine A graders.
What a fluke that was.
But hats off to them. They were on a mission for one month and that's all you need to do.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Sat 24 Apr 2004 10:24pm
- Location: Perth WA
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 19 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
SydneySainter wrote:This is my two cents as to how I see the talent depth on our list:
Superstars:
None
Genuine A-Graders:
Steven
Carlisle
B-Graders who could be A grade:
Ross
Billings
Gresham
Sinclair
Membrey
Acres
Dunstan
McCartin
Steele
Genuine B-Graders:
Bruce
Weller
Brown
GOPs:
Longer
Stevens
Newnes
Webster
Lonie
Could be anything:
Hickey
Long
Battle
Clark
Coffield
Goddard
Marshal
White
Could be close to retirement:
Armitage
Gilbert
Freeman
I've probably missed a few players, but based on my thoughts above, I think we actually have some pretty good depth, more so than most teams and certainly a lot than our grand final era. Especially if players on the cusp of A grade make to the next level.
However, our achilles is heel is still clearly the lack of star power, in that we don't have any. Whilst our 09/10 grand final list fell well short once we got to the bottom 6, we still had a top 7 of Roo, Hayes, Dal, Joey, BJ, Fisher and Milne - arguably all stars but at the very least all genuine A-graders.
Thoughts?
Not bad and I'm certainly too distant from that list of categories. Given our believed current lack of elites I wonder on others opinions of sides from yesteryear. For example the 2009 side under Ross Lyon, the 2004 side under GT and the 1997 year inder Stan Alves. It would be most interesting to see who were considered Superstars and A graders. The list of who could be anything for each maybe controversial.
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4882
- Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009 3:05pm
- Has thanked: 327 times
- Been thanked: 465 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Maybe ask a non Saints supporter. I think you'll get plenty of argument. Steven can't handle a tag as a rule. Carlisle is our closest to A gradeLinton Lodger wrote:There can be no argument that Steven & Carlisle are A Graders.
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 153 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
I think the standout difference between us and the Dogs is that they qualified for finals in 2015 and they obviously qualified for finals in their premiership year, something that we have so failed to do, despite the club saying that this list is primed to play finals.Con Gorozidis wrote:Good question.starsign wrote:Forgive me my memory fades but who were all the A graders in the Bulldogs Premiership lineup ?
The media love the Bont. Over rated imo.
Libba and Wood had freak years.
MacRae and Hunter are handy.
But I agree with you. I don't think any of them are genuine A graders.
What a fluke that was.
But hats off to them. They were on a mission for one month and that's all you need to do.
If all it takes is a one month mission, they at least finished in the top 8 to commence that mission. Do we look like we’re anywhere near to challenging for the top 8?
Maybe it’s the coaching, or maybe it’s the lack of star talent?
Last edited by SydneySainter on Tue 24 Apr 2018 1:13am, edited 1 time in total.
Bad management is bad management
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
SydneySainter wrote:This is my two cents as to how I see the talent depth on our list:
Superstars:
None
Genuine A-Graders:
Steven
Carlisle
B-Graders who could be A grade:
Ross
Billings
Gresham
Sinclair
Membrey
Acres
Dunstan
McCartin
Steele
Genuine B-Graders:
Bruce
Weller
Brown
GOPs:
Longer
Stevens
Newnes
Webster
Lonie
Could be anything:
Hickey
Long
Battle
Clark
Coffield
Goddard
Marshal
White
Could be close to retirement:
Armitage
Gilbert
Freeman
I've probably missed a few players, but based on my thoughts above, I think we actually have some pretty good depth, more so than most teams and certainly a lot than our grand final era. Especially if players on the cusp of A grade make to the next level.
However, our achilles is heel is still clearly the lack of star power, in that we don't have any. Whilst our 09/10 grand final list fell well short once we got to the bottom 6, we still had a top 7 of Roo, Hayes, Dal, Joey, BJ, Fisher and Milne - arguably all stars but at the very least all genuine A-graders.
Thoughts?
This is actually a very very good effort!!!
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
SydneySainter wrote:This is my two cents as to how I see the talent depth on our list:
Superstars:
None
Genuine A-Graders:
Steven
Carlisle
B-Graders who could be A grade:
Ross
Billings
Gresham
Sinclair
Membrey
Acres
Dunstan
McCartin
Steele
Genuine B-Graders:
Bruce
Weller
Brown
GOPs:
Longer
Stevens
Newnes
Webster
Lonie
Could be anything:
Hickey
Long
Battle
Clark
Coffield
Goddard
Marshal
White
Could be close to retirement:
Armitage
Gilbert
Freeman
I've probably missed a few players, but based on my thoughts above, I think we actually have some pretty good depth, more so than most teams and certainly a lot than our grand final era. Especially if players on the cusp of A grade make to the next level.
However, our achilles is heel is still clearly the lack of star power, in that we don't have any. Whilst our 09/10 grand final list fell well short once we got to the bottom 6, we still had a top 7 of Roo, Hayes, Dal, Joey, BJ, Fisher and Milne - arguably all stars but at the very least all genuine A-graders.
Thoughts?
This is actually a very very good effort!!!
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Con Gorozidis wrote:Good question.starsign wrote:Forgive me my memory fades but who were all the A graders in the Bulldogs Premiership lineup ?
The media love the Bont. Over rated imo.
Libba and Wood had freak years.
MacRae and Hunter are handy.
But I agree with you. I don't think any of them are genuine A graders.
What a fluke that was.
But hats off to them. They were on a mission for one month and that's all you need to do.
Bont is an A grade, match winner - it's seriously embarrassing when this forum attempts to lessen other players, especially as there is self interest with billings picked beforehand.
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 153 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Of course.
Roberton would be another B grader who could be A grade IMO.
Roberton would be another B grader who could be A grade IMO.
Bad management is bad management
- bigred
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11463
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:39am
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 609 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Roberton made the AA squad last year.
I reckon that qualifies him as an A grader.
I reckon that qualifies him as an A grader.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
- prwilkinson
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Tue 21 Sep 2010 12:17pm
- Has thanked: 66 times
- Been thanked: 132 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
There's no one in this St Kilda team that on the way to the game I say, "I can't wait to watch 'so and so' play".
The anticipation before a match when you knew Plugger was in the team was the polar opposite.
The anticipation before a match when you knew Plugger was in the team was the polar opposite.
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Plus one about Plugger, prw. I even had opposition supporter mates who'd come to Moorabbin just to watch the great man play. Remember when we had the G Train, Milne, Roo, Lenny and Dal? All good reasons to pay at the gate. Hopefully a few of this crop can go on and reach star status. Blacres, Coff and "The two new Lennies", Dunstan and Ross, shape as candidates. I'd love Paddy to grow into that role, but Plugger's boots are almost impossible to fill. GOAT, IMHO.prwilkinson wrote:There's no one in this St Kilda team that on the way to the game I say, "I can't wait to watch 'so and so' play".
The anticipation before a match when you knew Plugger was in the team was the polar opposite.
"For when I am powerless, then I am strong."
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Did you sit in the Huggins Stand?????St. Paul wrote:Plus one about Plugger, prw. I even had opposition supporter mates who'd come to Moorabbin just to watch the great man play. Remember when we had the G Train, Milne, Roo, Lenny and Dal? All good reasons to pay at the gate. Hopefully a few of this crop can go on and reach star status. Blacres, Coff and "The two new Lennies", Dunstan and Ross, shape as candidates. I'd love Paddy to grow into that role, but Plugger's boots are almost impossible to fill. GOAT, IMHO.prwilkinson wrote:There's no one in this St Kilda team that on the way to the game I say, "I can't wait to watch 'so and so' play".
The anticipation before a match when you knew Plugger was in the team was the polar opposite.
What about Billy?????
He is full of personality, just can't enough of the footy!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
- prwilkinson
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Tue 21 Sep 2010 12:17pm
- Has thanked: 66 times
- Been thanked: 132 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Yeah... Milney, Roo, Lennyyy.... G TRAINNNNNNN.... and silky smooth Nicky Dal... all great reasons to pack snacks, a thermus and head down to the Docklands for the afternoon.stonecold wrote:Did you sit in the Huggins Stand?????St. Paul wrote:Plus one about Plugger, prw. I even had opposition supporter mates who'd come to Moorabbin just to watch the great man play. Remember when we had the G Train, Milne, Roo, Lenny and Dal? All good reasons to pay at the gate. Hopefully a few of this crop can go on and reach star status. Blacres, Coff and "The two new Lennies", Dunstan and Ross, shape as candidates. I'd love Paddy to grow into that role, but Plugger's boots are almost impossible to fill. GOAT, IMHO.prwilkinson wrote:There's no one in this St Kilda team that on the way to the game I say, "I can't wait to watch 'so and so' play".
The anticipation before a match when you knew Plugger was in the team was the polar opposite.
What about Billy?????
He is full of personality, just can't enough of the footy!!!!!
- degruch
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8948
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
- Location: Croydonia
- Has thanked: 146 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: Breakdown of our talent
Yeah, Steven drops to a 25 possession game when tagged...honestly, has he ever been tagged out of a game, except when he's labouring with a busted lung?Moods wrote:Maybe ask a non Saints supporter. I think you'll get plenty of argument. Steven can't handle a tag as a rule. Carlisle is our closest to A gradeLinton Lodger wrote:There can be no argument that Steven & Carlisle are A Graders.