Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
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Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
No one can deny that Tom Hickey had an excellent 2016 season. At last, he showed he could realise his enormous potential and justify the draft pick we spent on him. It looked as though we had the ruckman we needed, having traded Ben McEvoy out. What's happened?
One theory is that his contract is partially to blame. At the end of 2016 he signed a new contract/extension that made him, according to 3AW, the second or third highest player on our list. At that time there was some justification. Great season, where he was considered one of the best ruckmen in the competition, some handy scalps taken, and a number of clubs sniffing around. They locked him up and they were right to do so.
What has followed has been as disappointing as it is disastrous. A combination of injury, bad luck and poor form have seen him hardly play senior football since. We all remember the Essendon game last year, don't we? Hopefully, that was his nadir. Many contend the third man up rule has cruelled him. I beg to differ. Sure, it has had an impact, but good players and coaches constantly meet and solve challenges. Other clubs seem to have overcome the rule change.
It's not uncommon for people to drop off after signing the lucrative contract. Having done all the hard work, it's time to enjoy the fruits of one's labour, so it would seem. In a game as demanding as AFL, the slightest drop in intensity, discipline and preparation can be fatal to your career. I'm not saying Tom stopped trying, I'm speculating of course. It has been a stunning fall from grace when he's gone from number one to having Rowan Marshall picked ahead of him as an emergency with Billy under an injury cloud.
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows the filthy lucre has a less than positive aspect for some. Frank Marchesani? A first year star for Carlton. Left for more at Fitzroy and soon disappeared. The late PHIL Walsh. Best first year player in the league, then got caught in the filth, tiggy pay wars and ended his career at the Brisbane Bears having been labelled an underachiever. Raines and Richardson at Essendon? Also ended up at the league's recycling centre, the Bears as well.
I hope he comes back. A fit and firing Hickey circa 2016, would improve our team enormously. He's too young and talented to be thrown on the scrap heap. I doubt you'd get much for him in a trade. The possibility hardly caused a ripple of interest during last year's trade period. So what's the solution. With Billy struggling physically, is it the time to show faith in him and give him a few games to show us what he's got? On sheer ability he's light years ahead of Billy and on experience he's way ahead of Marshall and Pierce.
It does raise the concern about the coach's puzzling contract extension last year as well. Could it be the intensity, passion and effort has been dialled back a fraction in the knowledge that, financially at least, his future is guaranteed for the next three years? Lewis Pierce, Paddy as well? Discuss.
One theory is that his contract is partially to blame. At the end of 2016 he signed a new contract/extension that made him, according to 3AW, the second or third highest player on our list. At that time there was some justification. Great season, where he was considered one of the best ruckmen in the competition, some handy scalps taken, and a number of clubs sniffing around. They locked him up and they were right to do so.
What has followed has been as disappointing as it is disastrous. A combination of injury, bad luck and poor form have seen him hardly play senior football since. We all remember the Essendon game last year, don't we? Hopefully, that was his nadir. Many contend the third man up rule has cruelled him. I beg to differ. Sure, it has had an impact, but good players and coaches constantly meet and solve challenges. Other clubs seem to have overcome the rule change.
It's not uncommon for people to drop off after signing the lucrative contract. Having done all the hard work, it's time to enjoy the fruits of one's labour, so it would seem. In a game as demanding as AFL, the slightest drop in intensity, discipline and preparation can be fatal to your career. I'm not saying Tom stopped trying, I'm speculating of course. It has been a stunning fall from grace when he's gone from number one to having Rowan Marshall picked ahead of him as an emergency with Billy under an injury cloud.
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows the filthy lucre has a less than positive aspect for some. Frank Marchesani? A first year star for Carlton. Left for more at Fitzroy and soon disappeared. The late PHIL Walsh. Best first year player in the league, then got caught in the filth, tiggy pay wars and ended his career at the Brisbane Bears having been labelled an underachiever. Raines and Richardson at Essendon? Also ended up at the league's recycling centre, the Bears as well.
I hope he comes back. A fit and firing Hickey circa 2016, would improve our team enormously. He's too young and talented to be thrown on the scrap heap. I doubt you'd get much for him in a trade. The possibility hardly caused a ripple of interest during last year's trade period. So what's the solution. With Billy struggling physically, is it the time to show faith in him and give him a few games to show us what he's got? On sheer ability he's light years ahead of Billy and on experience he's way ahead of Marshall and Pierce.
It does raise the concern about the coach's puzzling contract extension last year as well. Could it be the intensity, passion and effort has been dialled back a fraction in the knowledge that, financially at least, his future is guaranteed for the next three years? Lewis Pierce, Paddy as well? Discuss.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Your still leaving out the 'third man up' rule change, Tom has been severely effected by this!!!!!Drake Huggins wrote:No one can deny that Tom Hickey had an excellent 2016 season. At last, he showed he could realise his enormous potential and justify the draft pick we spent on him. It looked as though we had the ruckman we needed, having traded Ben McEvoy out. What's happened?
One theory is that his contract is partially to blame. At the end of 2016 he signed a new contract/extension that made him, according to 3AW, the second or third highest player on our list. At that time there was some justification. Great season, where he was considered one of the best ruckmen in the competition, some handy scalps taken, and a number of clubs sniffing around. They locked him up and they were right to do so.
What has followed has been as disappointing as it is disastrous. A combination of injury, bad luck and poor form have seen him hardly play senior football since. We all remember the Essendon game last year, don't we? Hopefully, that was his nadir. Many contend the third man up rule has cruelled him. I beg to differ. Sure, it has had an impact, but good players and coaches constantly meet and solve challenges. Other clubs seem to have overcome the rule change.
It's not uncommon for people to drop off after signing the lucrative contract. Having done all the hard work, it's time to enjoy the fruits of one's labour, so it would seem. In a game as demanding as AFL, the slightest drop in intensity, discipline and preparation can be fatal to your career. I'm not saying Tom stopped trying, I'm speculating of course. It has been a stunning fall from grace when he's gone from number one to having Rowan Marshall picked ahead of him as an emergency with Billy under an injury cloud.
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows the filthy lucre has a less than positive aspect for some. Frank Marchesani? A first year star for Carlton. Left for more at Fitzroy and soon disappeared. The late PHIL Walsh. Best first year player in the league, then got caught in the filth, tiggy pay wars and ended his career at the Brisbane Bears having been labelled an underachiever. Raines and Richardson at Essendon? Also ended up at the league's recycling centre, the Bears as well.
I hope he comes back. A fit and firing Hickey circa 2016, would improve our team enormously. He's too young and talented to be thrown on the scrap heap. I doubt you'd get much for him in a trade. The possibility hardly caused a ripple of interest during last year's trade period. So what's the solution. With Billy struggling physically, is it the time to show faith in him and give him a few games to show us what he's got? On sheer ability he's light years ahead of Billy and on experience he's way ahead of Marshall and Pierce.
It does raise the concern about the coach's puzzling contract extension last year as well. Could it be the intensity, passion and effort has been dialled back a fraction in the knowledge that, financially at least, his future is guaranteed for the next three years? Lewis Pierce, Paddy as well? Discuss.
Don't under estimate, just because you don't understand!!!!!
Again though, you are quoting rubbish media reports to drive your argument!!!!!
As my old girl used to say, newspapers made good s*** paper!!!!!
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
IMO there is one simple rule in football that the St.Kilda has struggled to grasp... and that is that players generally tend to play better with consistency
Obviously there are many exceptions to this as none of this stuff is an exact science but generally very few players that aren’t clearly top 22 just walk into a team and play their best from day dot.
I don’t remember when Tom last played 5 games in a row with the opportunity and backing to find his groove and get better over time.
In fact we seem to do the opposite... focus on a few particular players and give them limited opportunities when th everything on the line.
I don’t see why we have to choose btw Hickey, Longer and Marshall... Billy has had a rough start. What’s wrong with giving him a spell to build up his fitness and giving Tom a run.
Doubt it will happen though
Obviously there are many exceptions to this as none of this stuff is an exact science but generally very few players that aren’t clearly top 22 just walk into a team and play their best from day dot.
I don’t remember when Tom last played 5 games in a row with the opportunity and backing to find his groove and get better over time.
In fact we seem to do the opposite... focus on a few particular players and give them limited opportunities when th everything on the line.
I don’t see why we have to choose btw Hickey, Longer and Marshall... Billy has had a rough start. What’s wrong with giving him a spell to build up his fitness and giving Tom a run.
Doubt it will happen though
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!nw7 wrote:He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.
So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
He had a few mates in that game!stonecold wrote:The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!nw7 wrote:He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.
So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
The problem with that logic is that that same standard should be applied to everybody as opposed to just a few players.stonecold wrote:The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!nw7 wrote:He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.
So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!
Being a local, I’ve watched a lot Sandy over the last few years... Longer has never exactly been a star down there and to be honest, Holmes was pbly the best performed of them all.
Another problem is that player development doesn’t always or even often work in a linear style like that. Sometimes promoting a player to the seniors can lead to their motivation improving, or dropping a player to Sandy can reinforce that they have to follow the same team rules as everyone else.
If your Tom Hickey, and your looking at the fact that other players are promoted ahead of you, get more chances to perform, have a higher tolerance for a lesser performance and are chosen even if hurt/lacking fitness...
Does that motivate you more or give you cause to drop your head and think why bother?
SCSS - honest question... respecting that you rate Longer more than Hickey, based on what you’ve seen of both... do you really feel that both Hickey and Longer are being held to the same standard?
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Frank left Fitzroy for the scumbaggers? No?
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
That does not explain his slump in his effectiveness around the ground, and at bounces once the ball has been bounced.stonecold wrote:
Your still leaving out the 'third man up' rule change, Tom has been severely effected by this!!!!!
Something is seriously adrift, and coaching has to at least be part of the reason for this slump.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Toms' form slump- more like a coach disinterest. Should try any other club.saintsRrising wrote:That does not explain his slump in his effectiveness around the ground, and at bounces once the ball has been bounced.stonecold wrote:
Your still leaving out the 'third man up' rule change, Tom has been severely effected by this!!!!!
Something is seriously adrift, and coaching has to at least be part of the reason for this slump.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Correct.SaintPav wrote:Frank left Fitzroy for the scumbaggers? No?
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
My bad. You're right of course.SaintPav wrote:Frank left Fitzroy for the scumbaggers? No?
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Hickey is a spud, Pierce is a spud, Longer is a spud.
Let's hope Marshall has some ability, otherwise, we'll have to start again with our ruck stocks.
Let's hope Marshall has some ability, otherwise, we'll have to start again with our ruck stocks.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
No, they are not, powers that be are of the opinion the game has gone past Tom (rule changes) and deep down I think tom knows it too!!!!!skeptic wrote:The problem with that logic is that that same standard should be applied to everybody as opposed to just a few players.stonecold wrote:The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!nw7 wrote:He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.
So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!
Being a local, I’ve watched a lot Sandy over the last few years... Longer has never exactly been a star down there and to be honest, Holmes was pbly the best performed of them all.
Another problem is that player development doesn’t always or even often work in a linear style like that. Sometimes promoting a player to the seniors can lead to their motivation improving, or dropping a player to Sandy can reinforce that they have to follow the same team rules as everyone else.
If your Tom Hickey, and your looking at the fact that other players are promoted ahead of you, get more chances to perform, have a higher tolerance for a lesser performance and are chosen even if hurt/lacking fitness...
Does that motivate you more or give you cause to drop your head and think why bother?
SCSS - honest question... respecting that you rate Longer more than Hickey, based on what you’ve seen of both... do you really feel that both Hickey and Longer are being held to the same standard?
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
I thought Hickey was an absolute certainty to come into the side this week. I'm happy for Marshall, but he's going up against one of the better ruckmans in the league. It's a tough ask for the young fella.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Sainternist wrote:I thought Hickey was an absolute certainty to come into the side this week. I'm happy for Marshall, but he's going up against one of the better ruckmans in the league. It's a tough ask for the young fella.
If you thought that (Hickledik in), your listening to the wrong people!!!!!
I'll tell you another secret, Pierce was next in line!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go
Right him off... don’t give him a go
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!skeptic wrote:Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Sure.stonecold wrote:As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!skeptic wrote:Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go
I guess what I’m getting at and it’s a personal opinion is that disappointed that would support a very clear bias / standard in treatment that extends beyond just the 3rd man up rule as many have pointed out before.
But on the larger scale, IMO it illustrates the difference btw good coaches and mediocre ones... do you think guys like Clarko give up on talented players that have deficits in a particular aspect of their game or do they find get the best out of them, utilise their strengths and develop them.
These kind of close minded, knee-jerk opinions are rarely on point and scream this is too hard so I won’t try through fear of failure. And in Hickey’s case it’s actually bordering on sabotage. In terms of him not being able to adapt... he hasn’t really even given the chance. Not the same way Billy has who has played just as many average or worse games.
It’s not a good way to build a positive club culture.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
The ball is in Tom's court- time to put some big games in at Sandy, and Richo will have to consider him. Without pressure from Sandy(as per last season ) the seniors know they can get away with just doing enough. The Sandy Saints need to push hard for selection.
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Tom had a brilliant 2016. What affected him far more than the third man up myth, was injury. Some major ones and some niggles that effectively destroyed his 2017. Why doesn't anyone acknowledge this? He started last year in good fashion, then was injured. Upon his return, TMBK gave him no chance. Went straight back to his love child, LiaBillytee.
It's a disturbing aspect of TMBK's coaching that he seems to favour the average moderately skilled players above those who show a bit of flair. Witness his bizarre management of Acres and Dunstan. It took the psychologist to help Dunstan recover his form, with Luke openly stating he ignored the coaches! Poor career move, Luke.
Had TMBK shown the same faith in Tom that he did in boat ballast Billy last year, I think things would be very different right now. Last year Tom was almost broken by injury and TMBK did his best to finish the job. If Tom doesn't get back it will be scandalous. Like Paddy, from what I've seen, Tom is bereft of confidence. Maybe he should do what Luke did. Ignore the coach and his groupthinking Clouseaux and pay a visit to Luke's psych. Anyone who knows anything about football, and plenty on here do, will tell you Billy will never be a good AFL standard ruckman as long as his backside points to the ground. Cue bluff, blunder, outrage, exclamation marks and victim playing.
It's a disturbing aspect of TMBK's coaching that he seems to favour the average moderately skilled players above those who show a bit of flair. Witness his bizarre management of Acres and Dunstan. It took the psychologist to help Dunstan recover his form, with Luke openly stating he ignored the coaches! Poor career move, Luke.
Had TMBK shown the same faith in Tom that he did in boat ballast Billy last year, I think things would be very different right now. Last year Tom was almost broken by injury and TMBK did his best to finish the job. If Tom doesn't get back it will be scandalous. Like Paddy, from what I've seen, Tom is bereft of confidence. Maybe he should do what Luke did. Ignore the coach and his groupthinking Clouseaux and pay a visit to Luke's psych. Anyone who knows anything about football, and plenty on here do, will tell you Billy will never be a good AFL standard ruckman as long as his backside points to the ground. Cue bluff, blunder, outrage, exclamation marks and victim playing.
"Is this the right room for an argument?"
"I told you once."
"No, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"Listen, an argument isn't just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says, it's a series of statements designed to support a particular conclusion."
"No, it isn't."
"Oh, I've had enough of this."
"No you haven't"
"Oh shut up."
"I told you once."
"No, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"Listen, an argument isn't just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says, it's a series of statements designed to support a particular conclusion."
"No, it isn't."
"Oh, I've had enough of this."
"No you haven't"
"Oh shut up."
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
its like a junk yard dog with a fetid bonestonecold wrote:As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!skeptic wrote:Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go
Third up rule only affects a small part of ruck work
how does that affect centre bounces ?
possessions
marking
goals
ground movement
Something has happened to TH in the 2017 season and thats the question we are asking
Seeya
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Drake Huggins wrote:Tom had a brilliant 2016. What affected him far more than the third man up myth, was injury. Some major ones and some niggles that effectively destroyed his 2017. Why doesn't anyone acknowledge this? He started last year in good fashion, then was injured. Upon his return, TMBK gave him no chance. Went straight back to his love child, LiaBillytee.
It's a disturbing aspect of TMBK's coaching that he seems to favour the average moderately skilled players above those who show a bit of flair. Witness his bizarre management of Acres and Dunstan. It took the psychologist to help Dunstan recover his form, with Luke openly stating he ignored the coaches! Poor career move, Luke.
Had TMBK shown the same faith in Tom that he did in boat ballast Billy last year, I think things would be very different right now. Last year Tom was almost broken by injury and TMBK did his best to finish the job. If Tom doesn't get back it will be scandalous. Like Paddy, from what I've seen, Tom is bereft of confidence. Maybe he should do what Luke did. Ignore the coach and his groupthinking Clouseaux and pay a visit to Luke's psych. Anyone who knows anything about football, and plenty on here do, will tell you Billy will never be a good AFL standard ruckman as long as his backside points to the ground. Cue bluff, blunder, outrage, exclamation marks and victim playing.
Tool!!!!!
What year was your last involvement in the footy industry Champion?????
What do you know about the modern game aside from what you read and watch?????
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
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We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
Im just a no idea nobody
but I watched this
but I watched this
Seeya
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Re: Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?
It's called confidence, he's lost it, thus effects every component of your game, lost through the change of rule and has a flow on a effect?!!!! Simple!!!!!sunsaint wrote:its like a junk yard dog with a fetid bonestonecold wrote:As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!skeptic wrote:Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go
Third up rule only affects a small part of ruck work
how does that affect centre bounces ?
possessions
marking
goals
ground movement
Something has happened to TH in the 2017 season and thats the question we are asking
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
![📯](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f4ef.svg)
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving