The under-performing season
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9069
- Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
- Location: A distant beach
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 426 times
The under-performing season
Not impressed with how the club travelled this season- I thought it was a classic fail.
- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games
Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.
Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.
- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games
Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.
Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.
- GregPackhamsHeadband
- Club Player
- Posts: 495
- Joined: Wed 02 Aug 2017 8:25pm
- Location: Goward's Gulch
Re: The under-performing season
An inconvenient truth, spert.spert wrote:Not impressed with how the club travelled this season- I thought it was a classic fail.
- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games
Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.
Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.
I think you're pretty tough, don't I?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9370
- Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
- Has thanked: 657 times
- Been thanked: 498 times
Re: The under-performing season
Makes for depressing reading. Medicinal compound, anyone? ![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
![⚪️](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/26aa.svg)
( God help me)
- Selhurst Saint
- Club Player
- Posts: 1761
- Joined: Thu 19 Aug 2004 9:09am
- Location: I do like to be beside the seaside
- Been thanked: 35 times
Re: The under-performing season
Not a pretty summary, although you completely ignored the fact that Seb was in the AA squad and had an amazing breakout year.
"...If there has been one recurring theme through this whole shocking mess, it has been the misguided, inflated egos and their ill-judged determination to cling to long-standing old boy friendships. The bad advice that has guided the selfish and culpable James Hird has not only punctuated this saga but symbolised it..."
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Tue 10 Jul 2007 11:14am
- Location: Bentleigh East
- Has thanked: 266 times
- Been thanked: 574 times
Re: The under-performing season
As disappointing as the end to season 2017 was, we are improving.
Statistically, the following players improved in 2017. Most had career best seasons.
Seb Ross
Jack Billings
Jack Steele
Dylan Roberton
Luke Dunstan
Shane Savage
Jack Sinclair
Billy Longer
Blake Acres
Tim Membrey
Jimmy Webster
Josh Bruce
Jade Gresham
Darren Minchington
Jake Carlisle
Brandon White
Paddy McCartin
Only three of the players listed above have played over 100 games and most are under 25 years of age. So most, if not all, are yet to reach their peak. Collectively they make up a serious core.
In expecting so much from our players we lose sight of their age and experience. Take Acres and Sinclair for example, they’ve both played just 44 games, two full seasons. And yet they’re both already averaging over 20 touches a game.
We added Carlisle, Brown, Steele, Stevens. All were successful, important additions. Yes we have more holes to fill, as do most clubs, but we’re not that far away.
Rising Stars don’t mean much. Do we want more of Arryn Siposs and Jack Lonie, or more of Jimmy Webster and Jack Sinclair? The All Australians and individual accolades will come.
Between 2013 and 2015 we only managed wins against Melbourne, Carlton, GWS, Gold Coast, Fremantle, Essendon, Brisbane and Western Bulldogs (8 teams – of which only two played finals). We won 15 games across three years.
Across 2016 and 2017 we’ve beaten everyone bar Adelaide, Port Adelaide and Sydney (14 teams). We’ve beaten half the remaining finals teams this year. That gives us 23 wins across two years. That’s a 53% improvement on the three year period prior.
We may not be at the finals level we’d like to be just yet, but we are very close. Everything is tracking in the right direction. Our best can beat anyone, we just need to deliver it more often. That comes with confidence, experience and maturity, and that’s coming faster than you think.
Statistically, the following players improved in 2017. Most had career best seasons.
Seb Ross
Jack Billings
Jack Steele
Dylan Roberton
Luke Dunstan
Shane Savage
Jack Sinclair
Billy Longer
Blake Acres
Tim Membrey
Jimmy Webster
Josh Bruce
Jade Gresham
Darren Minchington
Jake Carlisle
Brandon White
Paddy McCartin
Only three of the players listed above have played over 100 games and most are under 25 years of age. So most, if not all, are yet to reach their peak. Collectively they make up a serious core.
In expecting so much from our players we lose sight of their age and experience. Take Acres and Sinclair for example, they’ve both played just 44 games, two full seasons. And yet they’re both already averaging over 20 touches a game.
We added Carlisle, Brown, Steele, Stevens. All were successful, important additions. Yes we have more holes to fill, as do most clubs, but we’re not that far away.
Rising Stars don’t mean much. Do we want more of Arryn Siposs and Jack Lonie, or more of Jimmy Webster and Jack Sinclair? The All Australians and individual accolades will come.
Between 2013 and 2015 we only managed wins against Melbourne, Carlton, GWS, Gold Coast, Fremantle, Essendon, Brisbane and Western Bulldogs (8 teams – of which only two played finals). We won 15 games across three years.
Across 2016 and 2017 we’ve beaten everyone bar Adelaide, Port Adelaide and Sydney (14 teams). We’ve beaten half the remaining finals teams this year. That gives us 23 wins across two years. That’s a 53% improvement on the three year period prior.
We may not be at the finals level we’d like to be just yet, but we are very close. Everything is tracking in the right direction. Our best can beat anyone, we just need to deliver it more often. That comes with confidence, experience and maturity, and that’s coming faster than you think.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9370
- Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
- Has thanked: 657 times
- Been thanked: 498 times
Re: The under-performing season
I guess two good wins on the road ( with another one being snatched from us at the death) aren't part of your equation?GregPackhamsHeadband wrote:An inconvenient truth, spert.spert wrote:Not impressed with how the club travelled this season- I thought it was a classic fail.
- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games
Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.
Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.
I wonder just how many Richmond supporters were saying almost exactly the same thing as the OP, last year?
I don't shy away from the fact that we didn't do as well as many of us expected, but things can change RAPIDLY!
Just go back to 2007- we miss finals altogether then in 2008 top four with a prelim final appearance.
Yes, be disappointed, but don't lose the faith! Go Saints!
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
![⚪️](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/26aa.svg)
( God help me)
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18839
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1568 times
- Been thanked: 1962 times
Re: The under-performing season
Lack of star power is a concern.
We literally have no one who can turn a game.
Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.
Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.
We literally have no one who can turn a game.
Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.
Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9370
- Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
- Has thanked: 657 times
- Been thanked: 498 times
Re: The under-performing season
People were saying pretty much the same thing about Lyon's gameplan at the conclusion of 2007SaintPav wrote:Lack of star power is a concern.
We literally have no one who can turn a game.
Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.
Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.
Just saying.......
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
![⚪️](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/26aa.svg)
( God help me)
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9069
- Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
- Location: A distant beach
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 426 times
Re: The under-performing season
Sounds a bit depressing I know, but in the end, we went backwards as a club- two slots further from finals footy than last year and that is the grim reality rather than look at individuals who had some good patches, or winning a couple of interstate games. It has to be a lot better next year, and good luck to those involved.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9370
- Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
- Has thanked: 657 times
- Been thanked: 498 times
Re: The under-performing season
Hear hear! Good approach to the future there spert! Kudos my friend!spert wrote:Sounds a bit depressing I know, but in the end, we went backwards as a club- two slots further from finals footy than last year and that is the grim reality rather than look at individuals who had some good patches, or winning a couple of interstate games. It has to be a lot better next year, and good luck to those involved.
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
![⚪️](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/26aa.svg)
( God help me)
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11322
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 12:57am
- Location: South of Heaven
- Has thanked: 1312 times
- Been thanked: 447 times
Re: The under-performing season
It was a classic fall this year. We went from 9th down to 11th and 12 wins to 11 wins. What a fall from grace!
Cheer up, Spert!
Cheer up, Spert!
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/LkJcQq3.jpg?2)
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/LkJcQq3.jpg?2)
- carn_sainter
- Club Player
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 4:49pm
- Been thanked: 62 times
Re: The under-performing season
I think we improved in the sense that the 2017 Saints would demolish the 2016 Saints. Maybe not demolish, but it would be a comfortable win.
Overall though, we went backwards relative to the competition when assessed with valid measures: Wins, Losses, Ladder position.
For me, we went from being a team in 2016 that was actually pretty hard to play against but lacking polish and a couple of positions to a team in 2017 that was far, far easier to play against and only a little bit more polished but better structured (mainly Carlisle). If we toughen up mentally, play smarter and kick an extra 3 or 4 goals per game, we'll be a good unit. Added guns will help, but we're nowhere near the ceiling of what the current list can give.
Next season, we lose our second most important player structurally - Roo - and need to find a replacement for him. I vote Membrey, provided that he is not needed closer to goal, which will depend obviously on the rest of the team. If not Membrey, Acres. This is just one of 22 or so questions for next season.
Overall though, we went backwards relative to the competition when assessed with valid measures: Wins, Losses, Ladder position.
For me, we went from being a team in 2016 that was actually pretty hard to play against but lacking polish and a couple of positions to a team in 2017 that was far, far easier to play against and only a little bit more polished but better structured (mainly Carlisle). If we toughen up mentally, play smarter and kick an extra 3 or 4 goals per game, we'll be a good unit. Added guns will help, but we're nowhere near the ceiling of what the current list can give.
Next season, we lose our second most important player structurally - Roo - and need to find a replacement for him. I vote Membrey, provided that he is not needed closer to goal, which will depend obviously on the rest of the team. If not Membrey, Acres. This is just one of 22 or so questions for next season.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1833
- Joined: Wed 27 Feb 2008 7:27pm
- Has thanked: 226 times
- Been thanked: 347 times
Re: The under-performing season
I was very pleased to see the Swans belt Essendope - but thought to myself that if we had made the finals it would be us that is on the end of that hiding.
We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.
We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.
Rugby League would have to be the stupidest, most moronic and over rated game of all time.
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18839
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1568 times
- Been thanked: 1962 times
Re: The under-performing season
2007 was Lyon's first year. Richo has just had his fourth year.thejiggingsaint wrote:People were saying pretty much the same thing about Lyon's gameplan at the conclusion of 2007SaintPav wrote:Lack of star power is a concern.
We literally have no one who can turn a game.
Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.
Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.
Just saying.......
It's difficult to make comparisons.
Just saying, ha?
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
I'm just trying to get to 10,000 posts as quickly as I can.
Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: The under-performing season
I would take an Essendope flogging in the finals anyday over finishing 11thhappy feet wrote:I was very pleased to see the Swans belt Essendope - but thought to myself that if we had made the finals it would be us that is on the end of that hiding.
We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.
This year was never about winning the flag or even getting close, it was just about making up finals.
A right royal flogging is sometimes good. But thats for another forum I guess.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
- GregPackhamsHeadband
- Club Player
- Posts: 495
- Joined: Wed 02 Aug 2017 8:25pm
- Location: Goward's Gulch
Re: The under-performing season
Well don't stop now! Do tell...........saintspremiers wrote:I would take an Essendope flogging in the finals anyday over finishing 11thhappy feet wrote:I was very pleased to see the Swans belt Essendope - but thought to myself that if we had made the finals it would be us that is on the end of that hiding.
We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.
This year was never about winning the flag or even getting close, it was just about making up finals.
A right royal flogging is sometimes good. But thats for another forum I guess.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
I think you're pretty tough, don't I?