Do we really need another tall defender?

[Bluthy]

So we'll have Carlisle at 200cm. Goddard at 196cm is apparently recovering pretty quick and I think he said he should be back pretty early next year. But even if he isn't, we have Coughlan 195cm, Lee 194cm, Robeton 194cm, Gilbert 194cm. How much height do we want?. Dempster may be there next year. Fish is still a possibility.

Why don't we try Coughlan and Lee out a bit next year and try and draft our own Aliir or Easton Wood with a low pick rather than use a high pick to get another KPD. If Lee or Coughlan come on they could be good backup players as minimum. I still haven't given up on Robbo as possible effective third defender if he can fill out. He has the height and reads the play pretty well. A third defender who can also attack well is really handy and Robbo has that attacking side of his game.

The other point as TTT points out is that Dogs won their premiership with a pretty small backline. Hawks have tended to do the same. The prefer agileness, run and good kicking for the backline over express height. They are condident they can get the ball to the ground with their good zoning defence and they want players good off the deck. They want good rebound which modern footy demands - you launch a lot of your attacks from the back half and need the personal there to do that. Easton Wood is a good example of the new model backline player. Only 186cm but uses his timing and ball reading to play tall and take interception marks (bit like Demps). He can also set play up from the back (unlike Demps)

If we had CArlisle and Goddard out together, that is actually a lot of height in modern footy. The question of if we are too big and clunky at the back comes up. So do we really need another tall KPD? Yes you can say you need to cover injury (hopefully Goddard recovers ) but we have some pretty good cover at the moment in talls.

You've got to leave room for really attacking players. Look at how JJ plays on the backline at 180cm. I worry if we get another young KPD and we keep Dempster (who Richo will play automatically every week), Geary, Robbo and Gilbo are automatic ins, then we are not going to have room for all of Joey, Savage, Rice, White, Mckenzie, Webster, maybe Billings on a halback- these are players who have the capability of providing rebound or setting up play from the back with good kickng.

Guys like White, Mckenzie, Acres, Webster look like being the prototype of the modern footy player who can play taller than their height would indicate and give you the cover in defence you need to get the job done but are agile enough to be weapons at the back.

I see Goddard and Carlisle being enough as huge backs with Lee and Coughlan being good backups. Leave room for the attacking side of it which gets more important by the year.

[Johnny Member]

Lee is no good, and Gilbert doesn't have long left does he? A year or two at best?

Carlisle will be more of a utility won't he? Rather than a pure backman I would have thought.

[citywest]

I agree Bluthy. We don't need another KPD. We have more than enough KPD's already at the club. My preference would be to play and develop them in 2017 instead of picking up another. Use pick 10 to get Steele and a pick in the 20's or if we cannot do that then take pick 10 to the Draft and grab the best available mid.

[White Winmar]

As always, dear Bluth, you make perfect sense. Couldn't agree more. Carlisle will suffice . Roberton, Coughlan, Godard et al will be all the back up we need. A speedy Gonzales or two is what we really need.

[bergsone]

Just heard Dempster signed one more year,so maybe we dont look like snareing a tall back anyway,this trade period

[barneyboyz]

I also reckon you're onto something here. Taller 'clearance' type players are the go

One thing with what you mention re using low picks for KP backs...if we trade, or go to draft with our pick 10, I reckon it would only be for the best mid atm

[barneyboyz]

I also reckon you're onto something here. Taller 'clearance' type players are the go

One thing with what you mention re using low picks for KP backs...if we trade, or go to draft with our pick 10, I reckon it would only be for the best mid atm

Sorry, I re-read your post re KP backs and see what you meant

[Johnny Member]

I think if we do look for a key tall defender, it will give us an insight into what style of play we intend to adopt.

[saintsRrising]

I suspect any new tall key defender would be either a "steak knives" deal such as bundled with Steele or a FA.

Either way I doubt that this period that we would extend significant pick cost to gain one now that Machank looks to be rules out.

[fugazi]

How big are the Dogs KPDs? Carlisle and Goddard should be enough I agree. Skilful hard at it and quick defenders are the go.

[Wombat15]

The more that i think about it better off seeing how 2017 shapes with the defence and seeing if Goddard, Carlisle and a combo of Webster, Roberton, Dempster, White etc all play out. With that being said if Scrimshaw is available at 10 you take him and work the rest out later. From what ive heard and seen (for a saints comp.) hes like Gilbo but with decision making and can kick with his left.

[Spinner]

No and can't get the fanscination with doing so.

One will come from no where - either through draft, ex-forward.

[To the top]

Given the reference to my contribution elsewhere, I would look at a restructure of our backline courtesy of Carlisle (and hopefully Goddard confirming his potential) to result in Montagna and Gilbert returning to mid field rotations, increasing the class and depth of our midfield.

Coghlan is behind Goddard in terms of development - and Lee is a work in progress.

The key is the comments re Fisher - and him being required if we can not recruit a like for like player, and re Dempster getting another year where it is indicated he will still need to play out of his division.

In terms of the GF defences, Boyd was the only key forward to impact significantly (and Franklin was restricted).

What you have to cover is that a Boyd, Franklin or Tippett does not start presenting problems by taking grabs in the goal scoring zone.

So to start with first things first, you have to have recourse to (quality) match ups and that is why another tall KPP type defender (at least) is required - or Fisher retained or Dempster plays out of his division.

Then there are ruckmen dropping forward - where we have been exposed in recent years and deliberately so given the absence of KPP defenders including because of Fisher's injuries.

I always had a view that if you have the luxury of someone who could hold down a KPP defensive position parked on a defensive flank you were getting pretty close to the game.

So, back in NFC days, the likes of Rodney Pope was recruited from West Adelaide where he was called on to play CHB and was a dominant player on a back flank in a side that did the job, then Frank Stemper from WWT and David Armour from Geelong.

All very, very capable of playing CHB - but on a flank in sides that held the Cup up.

And those sides left me with that view.

If you are good enough to park a player on a flank who, in other sides would be a KPP you have a pretty decent side.

Look at GWS with Cameron, Patton and Lobb for starters.

Hence the need to spread our defence including potential KPP defenders.

To my mind also, Dempster only remains in the side because of a deficiency we have - and I say that with all due respect BUT the additional requirement to negating your opponent is to provide rebound - and that is where I hope that the development of White, McKenzie and Webster (in that order) put pressure on Dempster and Geary.

We need the run and those long left foot precision deliveries to complement our improved scoring abilities with an improvement in our defensive structure (and less points scored against),

[samuraisaint]

Just heard Dempster signed one more year,so maybe we dont look like snareing a tall back anyway,this trade period

So we will have Roo, Joey, Shinner, Geary, Armo and Jack Steven in our best 22 from 2009/2010 era. Quite a bit of experience there. Any ITKs out there who know if we can add Gilbo and Chips to that list?

[To the top]

The season's reviews, including the Senior Coach's comments on Gilbert and Fisher are available - and are instructive.

Given we can improve our defence, starting from Carlisle, Gilbert will play in the mid field as a big, defensive player at stoppages.

We saw in the GF the advantage of defensive players at the stoppages both by tackling the likes of Kennedy, blocking his disposal options within his vision and forcing him to speculative over the head releases in hope - and the WB structured for that also - and by forcing a subsequent ball up as necessary if control and release to advantage was not an option.

That is where Gilbert comes in.

[barneyboyz]

The season's reviews, including the Senior Coach's comments on Gilbert and Fisher are available - and are instructive.

Given we can improve our defence, starting from Carlisle, Gilbert will play in the mid field as a big, defensive player at stoppages.

We saw in the GF the advantage of defensive players at the stoppages both by tackling the likes of Kennedy, blocking his disposal options within his vision and forcing him to speculative over the head releases in hope - and the WB structured for that also - and by forcing a subsequent ball up as necessary if control and release to advantage was not an option.

That is where Gilbert comes in.

If we push in the next couple of years, I reckon Gilbert will be a huge part of that

[Bluthy]

The season's reviews, including the Senior Coach's comments on Gilbert and Fisher are available - and are instructive.

Given we can improve our defence, starting from Carlisle, Gilbert will play in the mid field as a big, defensive player at stoppages.

We saw in the GF the advantage of defensive players at the stoppages both by tackling the likes of Kennedy, blocking his disposal options within his vision and forcing him to speculative over the head releases in hope - and the WB structured for that also - and by forcing a subsequent ball up as necessary if control and release to advantage was not an option.

That is where Gilbert comes in.

I haven't been impressed when Gilbo plays midfield. He had one great game in there and then was pretty average other times. He's not the best user of the ball and you need that as a mid. Running back who can use his go go gadget arms to provide extra defensive cover is by far his best role. And I think we will need him providing that defensive cover as Goddard maybe not in the team straight away due to injury/development, Carlisle is still maturing as a key backmen, Demps is getting older and Fish may not be there.

[saint-stu]

Lee, Coughlin and Goddard are all unproven. Everyone expects Goddard to come on, but what if he doesn't? Chips, Robbo and Gilbo all seem undersized when playing a KPD role even though they are pretty tall. Maybe we can get a mature age (hopefully cheap) defender to fill the gap for 2-3 years?

[The Recruit]

We need a back man that can defend but also run and is elite by foot...
Lee is toast...body made of glass
Gilbert cannot kick

Fisher and Dempster almost done

That leaves us very thin for sustained success which is what the club want not 'have a go at winning one' then fall away like after 2010 and the shockers this year....

Roberton can play and Goddard will be very good also just need one more tall running back like a Birchall....but must be able to kick

[To the top]

Bluthy, with all due respect, go to the Club Website, the season review of Sam Gilbert and commence reading at "Alan Richardson says".

I happen to agree with the Senior Coach's view.

Gilbert remains a required contributor to the mid-field rotations for the reasons Richardson refers to.

[saintbob]

IMO will still need another tall defender, Marchbank would be my first choice but I'd also be happy with Brand.

[Zed]

There is a new breed of 200+ cm forward emerging eg Daniher, Boyd, Lobb etc and at this stage only Carlisle is an option to neutralise them. Goddard is unproven - and I have some concerns over his lack of speed.

Dempster and Fisher have max 1 year left but like Robbo and Gilbo are actually run and intercept half backs who we have had to improvise with as KPD. Coughlan and Lee aren't quite KPD, aren't quite running defenders and at this point in their careers, aren't quite good enough at the top level.

If you look at GWS - who everyone is going to be focused on beating the over the next 5 - 7 years, who are our options for Cameron, Patton and Lobb when they all play together up forward ?. I can see why we are looking to get another Mobile KPD into the squad.

[Jacks Back]

IMO will still need another tall defender, Marchbank would be my first choice but I'd also be happy with Brand.

Here he is but I don't like his punching technique though.

[Vazelos]

Yes we will need another KPD, outside Carlisle long term we don't have a proven one.
Goddard is unproven. We can make do next year but after 2017 we will need strengthening.

[stkfc1]

What happens if (i don't like even saying it) Carlisle does a long term injury? We'll be back to square one and even worse if Fisher retires. Need a plan B. Even if its just for a year or two.