Did Collingwood cheat in 2010?

[perfectionist]

We all had our suspicions, but is there any evidence? Are they the mystery club?
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-club-t ... 04ns8.html

[stinger]

imho...yes...

i thought that it was fairly common knowledge that a number of filth players returned high levels of testosterone when tested after the replayed grandfinal...........hird believed that the filth were cheating...hence his decision to go down that road......we obviously weren't cheating though...our players were flat in that game...


"Handwritten notes belonging to Ms Andruska also refer to a discussion on February 9 last year with AFL and Essendon officials in which the possibility of other AFL clubs having problems with banned substances was raised.

Under the heading “other clubs”, Ms Andruska’s noted “right now no specific info’’ before adding “we are aware of 2 clubs where PIEDs [performance and image enhancing drugs] taken”. She went on to write “all historical” and “no issues in our system now”.

It is unclear which clubs Ms Andruska was referring to or when she was referring to.

A day after last year’s February 9 meeting, the then AFL deputy chief executive Gillon McLachlan said at a press conference that the AFL was aware of two specific cases where players or clubs might have breached the doping code. One case involved Essendon and the other a single player at another club, he said.

Text messages exchanged by suspended Essendon coach James Hird, the club’s former sports scientist Steve Dank and former fitness chief Dean Robinson in 2011-12 show they were worried by the sophistication of supplements programs at rival clubs."




would we take the cup retrospectively??????....don't know....

[perfectionist]

That would be a sign of ultimate desperation. So yep, we'd take it.

[sainters85]

I wouldn't think so.. we would've won it, it was just an unluck bounce:(

[Junction Oval]

Even before the Essendope saga, I felt that on that day we played Collingwood, they were "head and shoulders" above us in terms of fitness and vitality. I wondered then , about how the teams could be so far apart in their fitness - after only 1 week

Observations - but no "proof."

[Bunk_Moreland]

Even if they cheated and was conclusively proven, the AFL would call 2010 null and void with no winner.

Really how empty would it be, 5 years later for the AFL to say, oh BTW Saints are 2010 premiers?

[matrix]

yeah they were on the gear
just goes to show how blood doping and banking can keep you on the edge of whats legal and whats illegal
they ran rings around us in game 2
and people wonder why?
8 players with high readings (but not illegal) after a whole game of footy????

be real

cheats


but they didnt break any rules
so technically what can be done?

nothing


i would throw the cup back if they handed it to me

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Why focus on one game (GF2 2010)?

They were running rings around EVERYBODY for much of 2010-11. Putting teams away by 70 pts every week. Playing four quarters of non-stop maniacal footy. Had the highest percentage in AFL history.

That suggests SYSTEMATIC doping.

[ShanghaiSaint]

We all had our suspicions, but is there any evidence? Are they the mystery club?
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-club-t ... 04ns8.html

I think they did guys like o Brian double the mass that year compared to now. IMO no doubt

[gringo]

Yep.

[spert]

I'm pretty sure Geelong were on the gear in 2007, but it's too long ago now, and that's history.

[ace]

Of course Collingwood cheated, how else could they have beaten the best team in the competition.

[asaint]

If they get caught, I will take the cup as we would deserve it. In HGH and they still needed 2 goes to beat us. C' wood broke down 2 nd half 2011, just like E ' don. Done nothing since.

[Playon]

Wasn't it due to 6 players showing excessive human growth hormones? Which occur naturally in the body, so hard to prove.

[remboy]

If they get caught, I will take the cup as we would deserve it. In HGH and they still needed 2 goes to beat us. C' wood broke down 2 nd half 2011, just like E ' don. Done nothing since.

I'm with you. When you've won one flag in your history you take everything you can get.

[Eastern]

Wasn't it due to 6 players showing excessive human growth hormones? Which occur naturally in the body, so hard to prove.

That's how I remember it. My memory is that after GF1 the six random saints players recorded near enough to ZERO HGH (as would be the norm after a game of AFL) BUT the six random Collingwood players all recorded near enough to the extreme limit of what was/is allowed. Yes, it raised eyebrows BUT nothing proved !!

[70s sainter]

Thought of pies straight away .
So a big YES from me.
Hope it comes out one day

[HardSaint]

Thought of pies straight away .
So a big YES from me.
Hope it comes out one day

Never will, that a premier could be tainted damages the prestige of the game irreparably

I reckon potential whistleblowers would even disappear

[bergholt]

Why focus on one game (GF2 2010)?

They were running rings around EVERYBODY for much of 2010-11. Putting teams away by 70 pts every week. Playing four quarters of non-stop maniacal footy. Had the highest percentage in AFL history.

That suggests SYSTEMATIC doping.

We won a lot of games across 09 and 10. Does that mean we were doping as well?

[Dave McNamara]

yeah they were on the gear
just goes to show how blood doping and banking can keep you on the edge of whats legal and whats illegal
they ran rings around us in game 2
and people wonder why?
8 players with high readings (but not illegal) after a whole game of footy????

be real

cheats


but they didnt break any rules
so technically what can be done?

nothing

i would throw the cup back if they handed it to me

Well summarised Matt!

'Cheating' the spirit of the game, but technically within the rules, or put more accurately... (just) within the allowable HGH levels.

Would have been very interesting if they'd been tested before the 100 minutes of footy.


And if ever proven, no flag to us, as it would be declared null and void. For example, Hillbillies could claim that they should have been awarded their Preliminary Final, and hence the Skunk's spot in the GF against us.

Personally, like Matt I wouldn't want a retrospective flag either... seeing the Skunks, stripped, fined, humiliated, suspended and possibly so tainted that they would be out of the competition would be a pretty good consolation.

Besides, everyone would know that we were the moral winners, and (as was well pointed out) the Skunks needed doping and two GFs to finally beat us(!)


This whole saga has been raised in a couple of previous threads. Personally, the only way I can see the Skunks coming undone is if some of their players (or their player's kids) develop 'mysterious' health conditions in the future.

So whilst I reckon they'll eventually get away with it, it'll be many many years before those responsible can truly 'rest easy'.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Why focus on one game (GF2 2010)?

They were running rings around EVERYBODY for much of 2010-11. Putting teams away by 70 pts every week. Playing four quarters of non-stop maniacal footy. Had the highest percentage in AFL history.

That suggests SYSTEMATIC doping.

We won a lot of games across 09 and 10. Does that mean we were doping as well?

As good as we were in the 19-game streak in '09, there were a handful of games where we were very lucky to get over the line. And in most games we had a flat quarter or two. Collingwood was just relentlessly good. Until they mysteriously fizzled towards the end of 2011, and haven't been the same since.

[remboy]

Collingwood was just relentlessly good. Until they mysteriously fizzled towards the end of 2011, and haven't been the same since.

This just happens to coincide with Bucks taking over as coach.

[SaintPav]

Even if they cheated and was conclusively proven, the AFL would call 2010 null and void with no winner.

Really how empty would it be, 5 years later for the AFL to say, oh BTW Saints are 2010 premiers?

Compared to how we're going now and all the sh!t we have copped, I'd take it.

[SaintPav]

Why focus on one game (GF2 2010)?

They were running rings around EVERYBODY for much of 2010-11. Putting teams away by 70 pts every week. Playing four quarters of non-stop maniacal footy. Had the highest percentage in AFL history.

That suggests SYSTEMATIC doping.

We won a lot of games across 09 and 10. Does that mean we were doping as well?

As good as we were in the 19-game streak in '09, there were a handful of games where we were very lucky to get over the line. And in most games we had a flat quarter or two. Collingwood was just relentlessly good. Until they mysteriously fizzled towards the end of 2011, and haven't been the same since.

It's not that mysterious but with due respect that's nonsensical.

All teams have a bit of luck getting over the line.

The point is that you find a way to get over the line and you win.

For example.

Geelong 2007 prelim

Geelong 2009 GF

Collingwood who you mention above were very lucky to hang on for a draw in the 2010 GF.

Plenty of other examples.

I don't get your point. You can't win every game convincingly.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Why focus on one game (GF2 2010)?

They were running rings around EVERYBODY for much of 2010-11. Putting teams away by 70 pts every week. Playing four quarters of non-stop maniacal footy. Had the highest percentage in AFL history.

That suggests SYSTEMATIC doping.

We won a lot of games across 09 and 10. Does that mean we were doping as well?

As good as we were in the 19-game streak in '09, there were a handful of games where we were very lucky to get over the line. And in most games we had a flat quarter or two. Collingwood was just relentlessly good. Until they mysteriously fizzled towards the end of 2011, and haven't been the same since.

It's not that mysterious but with due respect that's nonsensical.

All teams have a bit of luck getting over the line.

The point is that you find a way to get over the line and you win.

For example.

Geelong 2007 prelim

Geelong 2009 GF

Collingwood who you mention above were very lucky to hang on for a draw in the 2010 GF.

Plenty of other examples.

I don't get your point. You can't win every game convincingly.

In 2011 (and for most of 2010) Collingwood won just about every game convincingly: see below.

If not for the mysterious last round 90 point loss to Geelong they would have had the highest percentage in AFL history.

Since the team wasn't nearly as good before and hasn't been the same since, I'm saying it's freakish and suspicious ... much more so that St Kilda in 2009.

1 Saturday, 26 March (2:10 pm) Port Adelaide 24.11 (155) 12.8 (80) Won by 75 points
2 Saturday, 2 April (2:10 pm) North Melbourne 7.14 (56) 21.17 (143) Won by 87 points
3 Friday, 8 April (7:40 pm) Carlton 15.12 (102) 11.8 (74) Won by 28 points Report
4 Friday, 15 April (7:40 pm) Richmond 13.12 (90) 24.17 (161) Won by 71 points
5 Monday, 25 April (2:40 pm) Essendon 11.11 (77) 16.11 (107) Won by 30 points
6 Sunday, 1 May (4:40 pm) Western Bulldogs 15.15 (105) 8.9 (57) Won by 48 points
7
Bye
1st
8 Friday, 13 May (7:40 pm) Geelong 8.17 (65) 9.8 (62) Lost by 3 points
9 Sunday, 22 May (1:10 pm) Adelaide 20.15 (135) 14.8 (92) Won by 43 points
10 Sunday, 29 May (2:10 pm) West Coast 16.9 (105) 7.11 (53) Won by 52 points
11 Saturday, 4 June (7:10 pm) St Kilda 16.12 (108) 7.9 (51) Won by 57 points
12 Monday, 13 June (2:10 pm) Melbourne 6.5 (41) 19.15 (129) Won by 88 points
13
Bye
2nd
14 Saturday, 25 June (7:10 pm) Sydney 14.9 (93) 13.21 (99) Won by 6 points
15 Sunday, 3 July (2:10 pm) Hawthorn 15.16 (106) 9.11 (65) Won by 41 points
16 Sunday, 10 July (1:10 pm) North Melbourne 22.15 (147) 3.12 (30) Won by 117 points
17 Saturday, 16 July (2:10 pm) Carlton 11.13 (79) 13.20 (98) Won by 19 points
18 Saturday, 23 July (7:10 pm) Gold Coast 11.9 (75) 19.15 (129) Won by 54 points
19 Sunday, 31 July (7:40 pm) Essendon 25.16 (166) 14.8 (92) Won by 74 points
20 Saturday, 6 August (7:10 pm) Port Adelaide 3.3 (21) 23.21 (159) Won by 138 points
21 Friday, 12 August (7:40 pm) St Kilda 10.10 (70) 14.5 (89) Won by 19 points
22 Saturday, 20 August (7:10 pm) Brisbane Lions 14.18 (102) 13.6 (84) Won by 18 points
23 Friday, 26 August (6:40 pm) Fremantle 8.4 (52) 20.12 (132) Won by 80 points