What exactly has Scott done?

[White Winmar]

With yet another article by Caro stating Scott's job is in peril and a number of rumours swirling about in relation to his position being untenable, I'd like to pose the question, what exactly has he allegedly done to create this situation? The current situation goes beyond the sort of "spat" that occurs from time to time in football clubs. This sounds serious, with some predicting he won't make it to next season. So what errors, if any, has he made? Can anyone elaborate? And I don't mean to elicit the generic, "he's lost the players" etc. kind of response. If anyone an provide specifics, it would be much appreciated.

I'd prefer to take the optimistic view that there is "good" tension and conflict that will drive us forward, but the reality is as follows. We need a new CEO, Head of Fitness & Conditioning, Jaymie Graham's replacement, and we need to sort out the assistant coaches for next year. Given it's late October, I get the feeling we're way behind most other clubs, bar maybe Brisbane. Thoughts anyone?

[CURLY]

He is the designated media target for2013.

[Stillwaiting]

He is the designated media target for2013.

You mean he is the designated Caro The Horrible target

[stinger]

He is the designated media target for2013.

You mean he is the designated Caro The Horrible target

good call that.....caro's name...suits her down to a tee..........

[Cairnsman]

White Winmar can I suggest you change the subject title.

The Wilson article is another nothing article and if you study it carefully you will find out how gutter journalism works. If you dismantle the article line-by-line you will not find one fact in there.

Innuendo and speculation runs rife through that story. Surely people know how to filter tabloid writing.

The story has very little to do with Watters and the sooner we can uncover the email sender the better.

[Johnny Member]

Dwarfs are never safe around Morrabbin.

[dragit]

Agree WW… whole heap of innuendo at the moment with no details at this stage.

Although I am very interested in the details, for the sake of stability though, we may not want a public thread outlining them - if there are any…

If he was that bad surely he would have been sacked following the review?

[SainterK]

Lots of people will tell you that he's done something, that he's gone, that its untenable...

Not so quick to say why.

[White Winmar]

White Winmar can I suggest you change the subject title.

The Wilson article is another nothing article and if you study it carefully you will find out how gutter journalism works. If you dismantle the article line-by-line you will not find one fact in there.

Innuendo and speculation runs rife through that story. Surely people know how to filter tabloid writing.

The story has very little to do with Watters and the sooner we can uncover the email sender the better.

I appreciate your view, Cairnsman, and I can assure you I'm no fan of Wilson's and view most things she writes with a healthy dose of scepticism, but in this case there seems to be more to it. Clearly there's been tension between Pelchen and Watters, with Summers intervening to get things back on track. What caused it in the first place? No one seems to have articulated this clearly. Not Fine, not Wilson and from what I can tell, not anyone. Why then do people still think Watters position is untenable? Put up or shut up I say. The whole thing can only destabilise the place further.

[perfectionist]

A. Coached a team that finished 16th and with little prospect of significant improvement in the next few years. It's called the poison chalice. Timing is everything in football coaching. The reality is that coaching is about 95% the same no matter who is doing it. It's players who make coaches, not the other way round. The only thing that will save him is the desire not to burn the next coach too quickly i.e. hand him a dud team. As we saw in the 80s, that's easier said than done at the Saints. When memberships and sponsorships tumble, as they will, sacrificial lambs will be sought. Three or four years coaching the Saints when we are near the bottom turns out to be a life sentence for those who do it.

[dragit]

A. Coached a team that finished 16th and with little prospect of significant improvement in the next few years. It's called the poison chalice. Timing is everything in football coaching. The reality is that coaching is about 95% the same no matter who is doing it. It's players who make coaches, not the other way round. The only thing that will save him is the desire not to burn the next coach too quickly i.e. hand him a dud team. As we saw in the 80s, that's easier said than done at the Saints. When memberships and sponsorships tumble, as they will, sacrificial lambs will be sought. Three or four years coaching the Saints when we are near the bottom turns out to be a life sentence for those who do it.

Agree, though I think three or four seasons near the bottom at any club ends with a coach sacking, not just St Kilda.

[saint-stu]

A. Coached a team that finished 16th and with little prospect of significant improvement in the next few years. It's called the poison chalice. Timing is everything in football coaching. The reality is that coaching is about 95% the same no matter who is doing it. It's players who make coaches, not the other way round. The only thing that will save him is the desire not to burn the next coach too quickly i.e. hand him a dud team. As we saw in the 80s, that's easier said than done at the Saints. When memberships and sponsorships tumble, as they will, sacrificial lambs will be sought. Three or four years coaching the Saints when we are near the bottom turns out to be a life sentence for those who do it.

I agree, and I really feel for Scotty because I can see this is how it will probably end.

A bit like Mark Harvey at Fremantle.

[lloyd21]

Saints are not " imploding " as originally story reported therefore consistent bashing over the spring/ summer in the media - they like reporting bad news-

Gets a reaction hence why the story is being repeated over and over.

There is no doubt the review of the club (business) has caused some discussion & all clubs(business's) have them otherwise you fold , as the president said day one
he thought they needed to improve communication throughout club but really happy personally .
Maybe supporters should seek out comments made by Colin Young (Watter's Manager) to clear their mind very happy at StKilda.(rather believe his account )
Pelchen has already stated several times now he is happy and clearly Elshaugh Bains Pelchen are on track to getting a fantastic trade plan underway.

Remember folks the still have a CEO working as we speak , they are getting things in place .
Just take a breath clubs are appointing their assistants over this period better to take their time and get it right

[Bluthy]

A few of my thoughts:

-- Scotts comments about "mediocrity" or "2nd rate" has made some enemies
-- Scott seems has been put back in his box a little bit perhaps after trying to follow Malthouses advice to control EVERYTHING at the club.
-- Looking at the trading this year Pelchen has clearly asserted his list authority backed by the board. Scott has been told we will take on board your player requests but your job is to coach.
-- Pelchen has the track record of building premiership wining lists. To be brutally honest if it comes down to it I'd rather keep Pelchen than Watters. Hopefully won't get to that point as there may now be better definition of roles making a smoother working environment.

We are getting so much media coverage as there is always a fascination with "How the mighty have fallen" stories ala Tom Cruise on Oprahs couch, Brittney's shaved head etc. We were Apex predators of the competition for a decade. Now they are digging up our bones wondering how the T-rex got wiped out so quick. The lesson is to survive you have to keep evolving.

[Moods]

I have no doubt that Caro has written the truth. The problem is that she can't help but put her own slant on it. She views the saints as unprofessional rabble obviously. No-one on here wants to believe that - I certainly don't.

The facts are, whether we like it or not, we have had a poor year on the field, and despite not having high expectations, not too many would have expected us to perform as poorly as what we did. The last couple of games (particularly the Feo game) really papered over the year.

There has obviously been a robust review - and that always upsets people. Lets see how quickly everyone can knuckle down now. I am optimistic about our trading and upcoming draft. We need more mids, lots more. Apart from that we are going okay.

No point lauding Caro for her work on the bombers scandal, then turn on her when she writes stuff about our club that we don't like. With Caro, everyone has their moment in the sun or the rain. She will find another target soon enough.

[Cairnsman]

White Winmar can I suggest you change the subject title.

The Wilson article is another nothing article and if you study it carefully you will find out how gutter journalism works. If you dismantle the article line-by-line you will not find one fact in there.

Innuendo and speculation runs rife through that story. Surely people know how to filter tabloid writing.

The story has very little to do with Watters and the sooner we can uncover the email sender the better.

I appreciate your view, Cairnsman, and I can assure you I'm no fan of Wilson's and view most things she writes with a healthy dose of scepticism, but in this case there seems to be more to it. Clearly there's been tension between Pelchen and Watters, with Summers intervening to get things back on track. What caused it in the first place? No one seems to have articulated this clearly. Not Fine, not Wilson and from what I can tell, not anyone. Why then do people still think Watters position is untenable? Put up or shut up I say. The whole thing can only destabilise the place further.

But see this is how these things grow from nothing, Wilson maintains a string of scuttlebutt that is purely manufactured from small grabs of actual quotes from Pelchin and then the rest of the article has a liberal littering of self serving adjectives, nouns, verbs and adverbs. I have cut and past the following words from Wilson's article today just as an example of some of the trick words used. If you go back and read the sentences where these words came from you will note that there is not one substantiated fact associated to any of them.

vehemently
suggestions
battling
unclear
disturbing
dismayed
''survived'' (This ones interesting, she accentuates the word with double quotes)
placated
emotional
disruption

These following statements in any article are classic inclusions in any piece of 101 gutter tabloid journalism. When you see these types of statements you know the Journalist is manufacturing something.

chosen to remain

disappointed at the departures

radically rebuild

compounded Pelchen's frustration

did not respond to calls

has told friends

moved to sack Watters

invoked the memory


The following are the only statements that appear to be direct quotes from Pelchin but again they were responses received from the oldest tabloid journalist trick in the book where you ask a loaded question to gain a factual comment that can be neatly slotted in between a liberal amount of opinion, agenda, innuendo and speculation in an effort to somehow give the focus of the article credibility.

''close personal friendship''

''I can assure you I have never tendered my resignation,'' Pelchen responded on Tuesday. ''Any suggestion around that is untrue.''

As I say the article is a nothing piece. There is not one substantiated fact in that regurgitated. Anything that is close to a fact is something she has already covered in the 3 articles she wrote on the Saints last week.

[Andreous]

Lets look at what is actually happening, rather than media who ha:
A big review - expected for every club, just more focus given our slide down the ladder and poor business year
Bold steps to rebuild the list - absolutely the right thing to do, but you have to give a little to get a little.
Four players from other clubs nominating St Kilda. How many times in the past can you say that.

Lyon left us because we were on the slide, he will do the same to Freo.
I thought we saw many good prospects this year with three top 20 picks this year, one or two key hackman and possibly a young talented ruck man.

It seems to be the perfect formula for developing for top four in 3-4 years.

You don't want yes men in charge of your club. You need good discussion and alternate points of view to find the best solution.

Keep going Saints you are marching exactly in the right direction.

[Johnny Member]

I have no doubt that Caro has written the truth.

I don't understand that.

Why do you have no doubt? I always have doubt about any journalist and the validity of their articles. The other important thing is, that she writes opinion pieces. So 'truth' isn't really ever the intention - it's her view. And she's paid to express her view in order for her employer to sell papers.

So having no doubt that she's written the truth, to me is really unusual.

No point lauding Caro for her work on the bombers scandal, then turn on her when she writes stuff about our club that we don't like. With Caro, everyone has their moment in the sun or the rain. She will find another target soon enough.

I don't agree with that either.

It depends on which part of her work on the Essendon scandal people were lauding her for.

She had an opinion, and expressed it. It doesn't make it true. She may be lauded for having the courage to buck against the intimidation of Essendon and still express her opinion, but her actual opinion is always ever just that - her opinion.


The Essendon situation, and our current 'situation', and Wilson's coverage of them both are vastly different in almost every way. You could love the way she went about the Essendong situation, yet frown upon the way she is tackling the Saints one and be completely justified in my opinion.

With Essendon, it was a scandal that rocked the game to its core. It had never been seen before, and from the facts that were public - she had an opinion that the coach was accountable and should be held to it. She stated reasons why, and supported her opinion with evidence. I agreed with her view, and respected the fact that she didn't back down when other would have and did.


However what she's doing here, is writing negative opinion pieces without any clues or substance as to why. And she's also articulating it in a way that suggests this is some sort of groundbreaking horror story that has never occurred before in AFL history.

The only attempts at presenting facts, are quotes which dismiss the whole jist of her article. To me, it's actually confusing.


So I 'lauded' her Essendon work, but think this current spamming by her in relation to the Saints is shoddy at best.

[Johnny Member]

I'm still really trying to work out what she's saying.

She's obviously suggesting that everyone at the club dislikes each other and there will be more bloodshed. I get the impression that she has mail that someone is going to leave (or more than one person), and due to the fact that she's been spamming everyone with these articles for the past week, she'll be able to lay claim to breaking the story and saying 'I told you so'.

Because clearly, she's writing articles littered with dramatic words, but hasn't actually said anything. I reckon she got word that the coach was getting sacked, and went in too hard too early to get the scoop.

Now that it didn't happen, she's either trying to justify her reason for going off half cocked, rock the the boat until he does get sacked - or stay on the scent until someone does leave and say 'See, I told you there were problems and something would happen'.

[gringo]

I'm still really trying to work out what she's saying.

She's obviously suggesting that everyone at the club dislikes each other and there will be more bloodshed. I get the impression that she has mail that someone is going to leave (or more than one person), and due to the fact that she's been spamming everyone with these articles for the past week, she'll be able to lay claim to breaking the story and saying 'I told you so'.

Because clearly, she's writing articles littered with dramatic words, but hasn't actually said anything. I reckon she got word that the coach was getting sacked, and went in too hard too early to get the scoop.

Now that it didn't happen, she's either trying to justify her reason for going off half cocked, rock the the boat until he does get sacked - or stay on the scent until someone does leave and say 'See, I told you there were problems and something would happen'.

That's what Finey has done. Still trying to tip the boat over so he gets to show how smart he is.

[Richter]

With yet another article by Caro stating Scott's job is in peril and a number of rumours swirling about in relation to his position being untenable, I'd like to pose the question, what exactly has he allegedly done to create this situation? The current situation goes beyond the sort of "spat" that occurs from time to time in football clubs. This sounds serious, with some predicting he won't make it to next season. So what errors, if any, has he made? Can anyone elaborate? And I don't mean to elicit the generic, "he's lost the players" etc. kind of response. If anyone an provide specifics, it would be much appreciated.

I'd prefer to take the optimistic view that there is "good" tension and conflict that will drive us forward, but the reality is as follows. We need a new CEO, Head of Fitness & Conditioning, Jaymie Graham's replacement, and we need to sort out the assistant coaches for next year. Given it's late October, I get the feeling we're way behind most other clubs, bar maybe Brisbane. Thoughts anyone?

What I have heard/read is merely from internet fora/twitter so take with a grain of salt as you see fit and is only one example of something that you might be wondering?

- After Milne was charged, SW picked him and gave the players the sense that he was behind Milne NOT being suspended for some games. But he did this without consulting with Pelchen or the board, who disagreed and then Milne was in fact suspended indefinitely by the board. I'm not clear as to why this led to SW being disliked by the senior players but presume it may be an example of poor working relationships between SW and other senior footy department members.

Do you remember this?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/a ... 6667120162

A DELEGATION of St Kilda players, including Stephen Milne, yesterday met the club's directors amid concerns the decision to stand the small forward down after he was charged with rape might yet prove permanent.
Milne, who yesterday took his first steps towards preparing a defence to the rape charges, was joined by captain Nick Riewoldt and other players for a meeting at St Kilda's Seaford base.

St Kilda president Greg Westaway told The Australian members of the club's board felt it important to clarify with the players the position it took on Wednesday to stand Milne down indefinitely.

It is understood the players, who initially believed Milne would be able to continue playing during the criminal proceedings, were upset when the decision was handed down just hours after the veteran had joined them for training on Wednesday.

"The gist of it is that we thought there was some misinformation (out there)," Westaway said.

"We thought that out of respect for them, it was important to explain how we arrived at the decision. I believe they felt a lot more comforted in our position."

Westaway said the players were assured the club supported Milne and his family.

My italics.

[The OtherThommo]

I'm still really trying to work out what she's saying.

She's obviously suggesting that everyone at the club dislikes each other and there will be more bloodshed. I get the impression that she has mail that someone is going to leave (or more than one person), and due to the fact that she's been spamming everyone with these articles for the past week, she'll be able to lay claim to breaking the story and saying 'I told you so'.

Because clearly, she's writing articles littered with dramatic words, but hasn't actually said anything. I reckon she got word that the coach was getting sacked, and went in too hard too early to get the scoop.

Now that it didn't happen, she's either trying to justify her reason for going off half cocked, rock the the boat until he does get sacked - or stay on the scent until someone does leave and say 'See, I told you there were problems and something would happen'.

That's what Finey has done. Still trying to tip the boat over so he gets to show how smart he is.

For his sake, I hope he watched "Perfect Storm" till the end.

[gringo]

I'm still really trying to work out what she's saying.

She's obviously suggesting that everyone at the club dislikes each other and there will be more bloodshed. I get the impression that she has mail that someone is going to leave (or more than one person), and due to the fact that she's been spamming everyone with these articles for the past week, she'll be able to lay claim to breaking the story and saying 'I told you so'.

Because clearly, she's writing articles littered with dramatic words, but hasn't actually said anything. I reckon she got word that the coach was getting sacked, and went in too hard too early to get the scoop.

Now that it didn't happen, she's either trying to justify her reason for going off half cocked, rock the the boat until he does get sacked - or stay on the scent until someone does leave and say 'See, I told you there were problems and something would happen'.

That's what Finey has done. Still trying to tip the boat over so he gets to show how smart he is.

For his sake, I hope he watched "Perfect Storm" till the end.

Perfect storm sounds a bit too classy and powerful for Finey- I'm imagining a pissed red-neck standing up and shifting his weight from side to side trying to tip his mates out of a duck punt. Something like those 7mate rednecksploitation shows more than Marky Mark surviving a cyclone.

[The OtherThommo]

"Duck punt" certainly stimulates lateral thought of the "Minder" dialogue type in this context, Gringo.

[Dr Spaceman]

"Duck punt" certainly stimulates lateral thought of the "Minder" dialogue type in this context, Gringo.