Is Ross the new Bob Rose?

[White Winmar]

That makes it 0-3 for RL in Grand Finals (0-4 if you want to be cruel and include the draw). Is that the record for GF failure? BOb Rose lost 3 by a total of just 15 points. Which coach holds the record for most GF losses without a win?

[whiskers3614]

That makes it 0-3 for RL in Grand Finals (0-4 if you want to be cruel and include the draw). Is that the record for GF failure? BOb Rose lost 3 by a total of just 15 points. Which coach holds the record for most GF losses without a win?

NOOOOO! Bobby Rose was a gentleman.

Lyon holds the title unopposed.
Nobody has 4 GF's without a win!
Love it!

[SaintPav]

Does 2005 count?

[joffaboy]

Does 2005 count?

assistant doesn't count otherwise Ross is on a par with Scotty

[whiskers3614]

Does 2005 count?

What has Roos' record got to do with it?

[SaintPav]

Just trying to be nice.

[whiskers3614]

Just trying to be nice.

After all the crap I have endured from the Lyon worshippers on here for the last few weeks I have no desire to be nice at all!

[SaintPav]

Just trying to be nice.

After all the crap I have endured from the Lyon worshippers on here for the last few weeks I have no desire to be nice at all!

It's important to display compassion. The guy is now the biggest coaching gf failure of all time.

[joffaboy]

Just trying to be nice.

After all the crap I have endured from the Lyon worshippers on here for the last few weeks I have no desire to be nice at all!

Really? Is your view really that simple? With or agin?

I think Lyon is a very good coach and nearly got us two flags. We were very unlucky.

Was trashng our list worth the risk to win a flag. I say yes.

Am I glad he was our coach. I say yes.

Am I glad he left? YES

Am I feeling shadenfreud that he lost another GF? YES.

Really it is a lot more complex than " I hate Lyon" AFAIAC

[saintly]

Ross does not hold the record, it was said on radio before the game that 80 years ago, the coach lost the grand final 4 times in arow, however he won the next 5.

[Schillaci]

His teams will struggle against the best because they are built on defence. Ross' GF scores...
St.Kilda 9.14.68
St.Kilda 10.8.68
St.Kilda 7.10.52
Fremantle 8.14.62

[lefty]

Cant kick over 80 points in a game, you'll struggle... i think thats enough proof.

[Scollop]

Does Ross Lyon inspire and motivate his players? Can RL provide the leadership that is required on the greatest day on the AFL calendar? Is RL made of the stuff that is required to be a winning coach on GF day? I've said it countless times before and I'll say it again - I think not.

It is his job to make his players perform on the big stage but we might cut him some slack I suppose with so many Dockers players never experiencing this type of build up and expectation. There's no doubt that the Freo players were going to be overwhelmed by the occasion and they were never going to be as relaxed as their more seasoned opponents. I've bagged Ross's game plan and there are a few voices growing on this front, but now there will also be some analysis and critique on the capabilities of Ross Lyon to create a relaxed mindset in his players....

Do you know what the fuckn idiot RL said on The Footy Show a few days ago?

After a light hearted interview and a few dorothy dix type questions they asked him what he hoped the team would do and he said; "I hope they kick straight" No bs. Deadset- that is what he said. Firstly you are part of the team Ross and without everyone believing and trusting in each other and being accountable the team can't achieve greatness. The players are not 'they' f***wit.

How in hell would you feel if you are a player and you heard that. They are under enough pressure as it is. I'm pretty sure they went to bed on Thursday night thinking; 'kick it straight' 'kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight''kick it straight'.....

One other thing...Ross Lyon doesn't deserve to be winning GF coach because the guy is an asshole.

[Bluthy]

Making 3 grannies shows Ross is a damn good coach. But from someone who's only coaching was telling my little brother where to stand as I took speccys over him here's my advice for Rosco:

• -- Low scoring is destroying your premiership attempts. 1 goal to half time aint gunna win you the cup. God hates a coward.
  -- Is it just coincidence with the bad kicking - its happened twice in grannies for you. Fates punishes those who don't listen.
  -- That forward press means the oppo teams defence have no space. But also your forward line has no space either. Freo often looked stumped going into the fwd line.
  -- Structure Rosco, structure! You seem to have chucked it out for this juniors approach getting everyone around the ball. You have possibly the best CHF in the game playing as virtual ruck rover. Play him as a standard CHF. Structure will give you some space on the forward line and let you get some relatively cheap goals instead of having to grind every single goal. We have a spine for a reason - so we don't just flop around.
  -- Does your maniacal swarm exhaust the players mentally and physically and that saps their energy and focus for shots on goal?
  -- Do they feel their control freak boss breathing down their neck when shooting for goal?
  -- Do you have players on your list because they "stick to the system" rather than having class (cough *Dawson* cough). Class and skills shines through on GF day.
  -- Are players so obsessed in their heads with the "system" that they don't do the unpredictable or show flair. The teams that win grannies have a few players who do something extraordinary.
  -- Players like all humans need to express themselves. The system crushes individuality. Fight the system!
  -- 5 mins after Freo's amazing win against Geelong you were in their face no doubt telling them "Need to focus, don't switch off" etc. Let them switch off for a bit Ross! Get rid of the tension in that sapping game and enjoy the moment. They are humans not robots.
  -- Did they play their grand final against Sydney where they were brilliant in that first half? They looked a little ragged on Sat.

I think Freo will be thereabouts again next year. Maybe it was just a freak bad kicking day

But what is the definition of madness? Doing the same thing but expecting a different result.

[Scollop]

Great post Bluthy. Lots of food for thought as was this article from a couple of days ago

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2ugy2.html

[SinCitySainter]

I think there is one other factor to consider here.
Ross plays a blanketing game, the idea being to smother the opposition by maniacal attack on the player with the ball and making sure you cover all the space.
This is a tactic developed on the very small SCG and works well on the average sized Etihad and the fairly narrow but long Patterson stadium.
It is far harder to implement on the open expanses of the MCG as shown by Hawthorn being able to create space which is usually so difficult against Ross's teams.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Ross has now been at seven clubs: Fitzroy, Brisbane, Richmond, Carlton, Swans, St Kilda, Freo. Probably eight when he coaches GWS in a few years. That might be a record in itself.

[Bluthy]

Great post Bluthy. Lots of food for thought as was this article from a couple of days ago

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2ugy2.html

Don't panic Mr Mannering! Ugly footy has always been around and always will. It will ebb and flow. Remember how bad it was with Roos - he's baaaackk. At least Roos would keep Hall at CHF. Lyon has taken the press to a new extreme and almost completely abandoned the key positional backbone to create this floating gelatinous mass. I wonder if it might have been good for his coaching to stick with St Kilda and do a rebuild from the ground up. Could have learnt some valuable lessons about developing young players and building a list. I always feel with Lyon that he's trying not to lose rather than focusing on winning and maybe that's come from feeling the pressure of being the person who should deliver a flag pretty soon without needing a rebuild so he does a patch up job and trys to "pinch" a flag.

I think you're right SCS about not being able to blanket the MCG. A good structure is important there as Hawthorn showed.

[stinger]

Just trying to be nice.

After all the crap I have endured from the Lyon worshippers on here for the last few weeks I have no desire to be nice at all!

[stinger]

Ross has now been at seven clubs: Fitzroy, Brisbane, Richmond, Carlton, Swans, St Kilda, Freo. Probably eight when he coaches GWS in a few years. That might be a record in itself.

and doesn't love any of them i suspect.....