Port shows what can be done if....
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Port shows what can be done if....
you have the right coach and the right fitness staff. Do we have both?
Re: Port shows what can be done if....
CorrectBigMart wrote:And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
BigMart wrote:And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection
Ross Lyon wouldn't agree with you..and I suspect Hinkly wouldn't either
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Why would they disagree? both have inherited lists laden with high end talent...twirlyhair wrote:BigMart wrote:And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection
Ross Lyon wouldn't agree with you..and I suspect Hinkly wouldn't either
Without talented footballers you get nowhere.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
And how do you know we don't have talented footballers? Why have you given up on them so soon?dragit wrote:Why would they disagree? both have inherited lists laden with high end talent...twirlyhair wrote:BigMart wrote:And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection
Ross Lyon wouldn't agree with you..and I suspect Hinkly wouldn't either
Without talented footballers you get nowhere.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Mate, with respect, that is the typical St.kilda supporter loser mentality... The woe is me mentality. Even the coach disagrees with you when he says that we have "accepted mediocrity for too long"...tell me that we don't have players, that with the right coaching and fitness levels can't reach the heights that Port has..dragit wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Sorry, I got that quote wrong. It should read..."for too long our club has not aspired to ge great.." S Watterstwirlyhair wrote:Mate, with respect, that is the typical St.kilda supporter loser mentality... The woe is me mentality. Even the coach disagrees with you when he says that we have "accepted mediocrity for too long"...tell me that we don't have players, that with the right coaching and fitness levels can't reach the heights that Port has..dragit wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.
Re: Port shows what can be done if....
twirlyhair wrote:Mate, with respect, that is the typical St.kilda supporter loser mentality... The woe is me mentality. Even the coach disagrees with you when he says that we have "accepted mediocrity for too long"...tell me that we don't have players, that with the right coaching and fitness levels can't reach the heights that Port has..dragit wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.
What are you on about? We dont have young guys as good as Wines and Wingard. fact. Not a lose mentally at all. We havent had the picks to get those sort of players. yes you can good very good players at later picks but you will get many more failures with higher picks.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
So coaching does no matter at all in the development of players? Is that what you are saying?
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Loser mentality... yes very respectful if you.twirlyhair wrote:Mate, with respect, that is the typical St.kilda supporter loser mentality... The woe is me mentality. Even the coach disagrees with you when he says that we have "accepted mediocrity for too long"...tell me that we don't have players, that with the right coaching and fitness levels can't reach the heights that Port has..dragit wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.
There's no woe from me... it's pretty simple, though you seem to be struggling...
The teams with more talented lists are higher on the ladder, the genuine stars generally come from the first few picks if the draft, we haven't had those picks... Are list is shambles... It wouldn't matter his fit we got, our players miss more targets than our opponents.
It's not about accepting mediocrity, the reality is that our group of players is in the bottom few in the comp for talent. The current players aren't that good, so until we add talent we're not going to compete with the better sides.
I'm sure we could improve fitness, but if you threw Wines, Wingard & Westoff into our side we would look a lot better.
Re: Port shows what can be done if....
twirlyhair wrote:So coaching does no matter at all in the development of players? Is that what you are saying?
No that is what you just said. Are you naive enough to suggest that a great coach will get players who arent good enough to be as good as Wingard or Wines? That will never happen ever. Its a fact that lower picks will over time get a side better players than higher picks and whilst i say a great coach cant make bad players good I do think a bad coach can make good players bad. Not sure we have had the picks to see where SW is at the moment.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but one thing I know in life is that losers find reasons to be unsuccessful, whilst winners will simply find a way, no matter what thy are faced with. As a saints supporter, I am sick of talking about why we can't be successful.dragit wrote:Loser mentality... yes very respectful if you.twirlyhair wrote:Mate, with respect, that is the typical St.kilda supporter loser mentality... The woe is me mentality. Even the coach disagrees with you when he says that we have "accepted mediocrity for too long"...tell me that we don't have players, that with the right coaching and fitness levels can't reach the heights that Port has..dragit wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.
There's no woe from me... it's pretty simple, though you seem to be struggling...
The teams with more talented lists are higher on the ladder, the genuine stars generally come from the first few picks if the draft, we haven't had those picks... Are list is shambles... It wouldn't matter his fit we got, our players miss more targets than our opponents.
It's not about accepting mediocrity, the reality is that our group of players is in the bottom few in the comp for talent. The current players aren't that good, so until we add talent we're not going to compete with the better sides.
I'm sure we could improve fitness, but if you threw Wines, Wingard & Westoff into our side we would look a lot better.
Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Twirly your argument seems to swinging to extremes. Coaching is a crucial element but the talent identification process is so thorough these days that draft order is more a science than guess work. Surely you're not arguing that just because player x was picked by st.kilda and coach y was as well that we have formulae for success by virtue of faith.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
We will be successful, but it takes time...
Sulking like a toddler doesn't make it happen any faster.
Essendon & Carlton fans demand success apparently... Hasn't helped them much over the last decade.
Your main point 'good coaching & fitness are important elements to success' I agree with, a couple of other things need to happen in conjunction... Like adding 5-6 super stars.
Sulking like a toddler doesn't make it happen any faster.
Essendon & Carlton fans demand success apparently... Hasn't helped them much over the last decade.
Your main point 'good coaching & fitness are important elements to success' I agree with, a couple of other things need to happen in conjunction... Like adding 5-6 super stars.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
No not swinging to extremes at all. Just a fundamental belief that discipline and culture and good processes will always win out over purely relying upon getting high draft picks, in fact our club proves that over the last decade, no flags but many many high draft picks. Of course we woul all like to have higher drft picks, but to say that you can't improve your team because of the assumed skill sets of te players is nonsensical.PJ wrote:Twirly your argument seems to swinging to extremes. Coaching is a crucial element but the talent identification process is so thorough these days that draft order is more a science than guess work. Surely you're not arguing that just because player x was picked by st.kilda and coach y was as well that we have formulae for success by virtue of faith.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
BigMart wrote:And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection
Exactly right. They have been building for five years - While everyone asks where they came from and what a fast dramatic rise!
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Sulking like a toddler would be to accept mediocrity. Something you are doing my frienddragit wrote:We will be successful, but it takes time...
Sulking like a toddler doesn't make it happen any faster.
Essendon & Carlton fans demand success apparently... Hasn't helped them much over the last decade.
Your main point 'good coaching & fitness are important elements to success' I agree with, a couple of other things need to happen in conjunction... Like adding 5-6 super stars.
Re: Port shows what can be done if....
I haven't said that all. I've said it's a combination.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Coaching can only get you so far. In fairness to Watters we are yet to have top draft picks until this season. Port have been ordinary since playing the GF in 2007. We are in our 2nd year of rebuilding, around 2016-2018 is when we will be doing what Port are providing we recruit well.
I have a lot of faith in Pelchen. Our list still has more holes than a crumpet but last season I believe we picked some good talent with high picks. At a guess I believe we will pick midfield types this season. Josh Kelly is likely at 3.
PATIENCE, something we have struggled with is the key. Watters can coach, we are doing a full rebuild and more pain will come but when we come out the other side I have no doubt he could be up with the best. Very much like Clarkson.
I have a lot of faith in Pelchen. Our list still has more holes than a crumpet but last season I believe we picked some good talent with high picks. At a guess I believe we will pick midfield types this season. Josh Kelly is likely at 3.
PATIENCE, something we have struggled with is the key. Watters can coach, we are doing a full rebuild and more pain will come but when we come out the other side I have no doubt he could be up with the best. Very much like Clarkson.
and that's the bottom line
Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Barring Wines and couple of others this is the same port team as last year that finished where??
Hinkley must be a genius. Quick sack Watters and get him straight away.
Hinkley must be a genius. Quick sack Watters and get him straight away.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
Sure thing champ, so if we get a good coach next year & improve fitness... there's no reason we shouldn't win the flag.twirlyhair wrote:Sulking like a toddler would be to accept mediocrity. Something you are doing my frienddragit wrote:We will be successful, but it takes time...
Sulking like a toddler doesn't make it happen any faster.
Essendon & Carlton fans demand success apparently... Hasn't helped them much over the last decade.
Your main point 'good coaching & fitness are important elements to success' I agree with, a couple of other things need to happen in conjunction... Like adding 5-6 super stars.
You seem to have a really good grasp on the game.
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Re: Port shows what can be done if....
PJ wrote:Barring Wines and couple of others this is the same port team as last year that finished where??
No it's not. They have twenty odd more games and another preseason into them......
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