Saints best players, Geelong best team

[Richter]

http://finalsiren.com/PreviousGames.asp ... rageRating Desc#PlayerLast5

From this site we can see that over the last 20 years, Geelong have won 40 games, St Kilda 18. Looking down the table though at the top 20 players... 14 of them are St Kilda players and 6 from Geelong.

If you only include players who have played for either team up until 2011 then you find that Saints players get 8 out the top 10 spots....

Just confirms in stats-terms what we already knew... that St Kilda's best players have been the equal... no... better than Geelong's, but that after our top 10 the quality dropped away markedly, whilst Geelong have had a much more even spread of talent throughout their list.

[kosifantutti]

The win loss ratio is over the last 33 years, we certainly haven't played Geelong 58 times in 20 years.

[6621104]

for those that didn't rate Gram (confession I am one), have a look at his value versus BJ or lennie for that matter! looks like he always got up when playing the cats.

[Greg T]

for those that didn't rate Gram (confession I am one), have a look at his value versus BJ or lennie for that matter! looks like he always got up when playing the cats.

Gram was a really good player.
Enormous to us for structure and run...
Sorely missed now as is BJ...

[Wayne42]

for those that didn't rate Gram (confession I am one), have a look at his value versus BJ or lennie for that matter! looks like he always got up when playing the cats.

Gram was a really good player.
Enormous to us for structure and run...
Sorely missed now as is BJ...

It was his own fault that his career came to a halt, different team now that there are no helicopters into the forward line...

[onlooker2]

The OP is spot on when he talks about the balance in the sides. Geelong's best players as with StK's at this time could go to any other AFL club and play. At this time however Geelong had some amazing pieces of sheer luck. The father/son rules at the time delivered them some prospects and we all know how these have now turned out and good luck to them. The first piece of luck I am thinking of luck was with Mooney. Their previous Captain (whose name escapes me at trhe moment) decides to go to the USA and play gridion as a kicker. They have a huge hole as a key forward and in their warmup preparations for the next season decide to give Mooney a shot there. He is someone who has been in and out of their side since moving from the Roos through suspension and form as a key defender. Within a season becomes one of the top forwards not only in Geelong's history but in the AFL at the time. A bloody masterstroke that really cost them no money. The next piece of luck was Ottens. He was a player who struggled from fitness and to a lesser extent form at R'mond. His contract came up for renewal at R'mond and Geelong went after him with a vengence. I could not understand it based on his time at R'mond. We now know this player became their prime mover in the big finals games and was critical to their success in their GF appearances. Another piece of luck. The next piece of luck I think was with their 'final 6' or five to go into their big sides. Players like Corey, Enright, Bartel etc etc (their top liners) could go anywhere else and play but when you think about how their las t 5 or 6 developed in that time it really gave them a balance that was impressive. Some of the players I am thinking of are Wojo, Mackie, and Hunt and there are others that really went above the so called top ups that StK had at the time. Actually the more I put into this I am mnot sure whether it was sheer luck or just great recruitment by Mr Wells.

[sippo]

The OP is spot on when he talks about the balance in the sides. Geelong's best players as with StK's at this time could go to any other AFL club and play. At this time however Geelong had some amazing pieces of sheer luck. The father/son rules at the time delivered them some prospects and we all know how these have now turned out and good luck to them. The first piece of luck I am thinking of luck was with Mooney. Their previous Captain (whose name escapes me at trhe moment) decides to go to the USA and play gridion as a kicker. They have a huge hole as a key forward and in their warmup preparations for the next season decide to give Mooney a shot there. He is someone who has been in and out of their side since moving from the Roos through suspension and form as a key defender. Within a season becomes one of the top forwards not only in Geelong's history but in the AFL at the time. A bloody masterstroke that really cost them no money. The next piece of luck was Ottens. He was a player who struggled from fitness and to a lesser extent form at R'mond. His contract came up for renewal at R'mond and Geelong went after him with a vengence. I could not understand it based on his time at R'mond. We now know this player became their prime mover in the big finals games and was critical to their success in their GF appearances. Another piece of luck. The next piece of luck I think was with their 'final 6' or five to go into their big sides. Players like Corey, Enright, Bartel etc etc (their top liners) could go anywhere else and play but when you think about how their las t 5 or 6 developed in that time it really gave them a balance that was impressive. Some of the players I am thinking of are Wojo, Mackie, and Hunt and there are others that really went above the so called top ups that StK had at the time. Actually the more I put into this I am mnot sure whether it was sheer luck or just great recruitment by Mr Wells.

Yes being one of the best teams EVER in the history of the game was indeed LUCK

[dragit]

The OP is spot on when he talks about the balance in the sides. Geelong's best players as with StK's at this time could go to any other AFL club and play. At this time however Geelong had some amazing pieces of sheer luck. The father/son rules at the time delivered them some prospects and we all know how these have now turned out and good luck to them. The first piece of luck I am thinking of luck was with Mooney. Their previous Captain (whose name escapes me at trhe moment) decides to go to the USA and play gridion as a kicker. They have a huge hole as a key forward and in their warmup preparations for the next season decide to give Mooney a shot there. He is someone who has been in and out of their side since moving from the Roos through suspension and form as a key defender. Within a season becomes one of the top forwards not only in Geelong's history but in the AFL at the time. A bloody masterstroke that really cost them no money. The next piece of luck was Ottens. He was a player who struggled from fitness and to a lesser extent form at R'mond. His contract came up for renewal at R'mond and Geelong went after him with a vengence. I could not understand it based on his time at R'mond. We now know this player became their prime mover in the big finals games and was critical to their success in their GF appearances. Another piece of luck. The next piece of luck I think was with their 'final 6' or five to go into their big sides. Players like Corey, Enright, Bartel etc etc (their top liners) could go anywhere else and play but when you think about how their las t 5 or 6 developed in that time it really gave them a balance that was impressive. Some of the players I am thinking of are Wojo, Mackie, and Hunt and there are others that really went above the so called top ups that StK had at the time. Actually the more I put into this I am mnot sure whether it was sheer luck or just great recruitment by Mr Wells.

Again - If we win 2009, King/Gardiner would be the same masterstroke as Ottens
Hamill & Gherig are our version of Mooney…

It all looks brilliant when you single out the wins and leave out all the flops…

[skeptic]

No one doubts that Gram was at one time a fantastic player

like many others on our list however, he fell away and lived on reputation for a lot of his last 2-3 seasons

[gringo]

gram and Goddard had down years but not as down as some would make out. Funny Dal has been very good too. Losing Gram and Goddard was a blow to our stocks as was losing Zac which meant our GF backline lost three key players.

[spert]

for those that didn't rate Gram (confession I am one), have a look at his value versus BJ or lennie for that matter! looks like he always got up when playing the cats.

Gram was a really good player.
Enormous to us for structure and run...
Sorely missed now as is BJ...

It was his own fault that his career came to a halt, different team now that there are no helicopters into the forward line...

Gram was what we sorely lack this season- mature, experienced solid player..no star, but important. Sadly his private life baggage has ruined his footy career.

I want to see a lot from our experienced players tonight against the Cats, and I would love to see at least one younger player really take a step up against quality opposition tonight too.

[perfectionist]

These ratings schemes are a complete waste of time. Why? Because they fail to place value on defence. For example, a player who kept Gary Ablett to a nil possession game but got none himself would score the same as Gary Ablett. The main reason we have won none and Geelong have won three is that they had the best (or equal best) defence in the AFL, not only collectively, but individually. Ours was good but lacked individual brilliance. Any ratings scheme that does not have Scarlett or Harley or Enright or Taylor or (for that matter) Mackie is, as I said, a waste of time.

The lack of a backline stars cost us in the early 90s, as it did Geelong around the same time. It also cost us in 1997. We actually had back line stars in 2004/05, but the crucial ones got injured.

You can have great forwards and great on ballers but without great defenders, the game is always there to be lost (see 09 and GF1 and 2 in 10). It is no coincidence that our one and only flag was won not on a wobbly kick for a point, but by a contested mark in the last seconds on the last line of defence.

[perfectionist]

ors should be ands