Well said Caro

[Newman]

On Footy Classifieds she aimed her arrow at Ross Lyon. She said Luke Ball should have been celebrating his 200th but wearing a jumper that had some red in it. Blasted 'Moneybags' for letting him go and also leaving the club in an ordinary playing list position. Good one Caroline.

[Griggsy]

Most of us have moved on, but I guess it doesn't make it any less true. Whatever the 'real' story is who knows, all I remember is the 09 granny and Ball playing well with minimal game time. 1 devastating loss later and he is gone.

[saintspremiers]

We may have relucantly accepted it but its important the wider community are made aware of what the scumbag left us with.

[stinger]

We may have relucantly accepted it but its important the wider community are made aware of what the scumbag left us with.

+1.....you ain't just whistling dixie there......

[SainterK]

The desperate need we have for a inside mid....

Ross is heralded as a master coach with little attention to his boo-boos, 49% game to your other inside mid when Hayes was heavily tagged in the most important game if the year, not his best move.

Still, wish ball was happy to ride it out and could foresee he'd move on when the list was cooked.

Perhaps the fact he's move has been justified so much as him just happening to take over another list ready to have a crack, she felt he needed a whack

[Viking3]

We are all harsh with the luxury of hindsight.
Whilst most of what is being said is probably true, he did take us to 2 consecutive Grand Finals.
Allan Jeans was the only other coach to have achieved that with a club that shoots itself in the foot more often than not.
I for one enjoyed the ride.

[Mr Magic]

We are all harsh with the luxury of hindsight.
Whilst most of what is being said is probably true, he did take us to 2 consecutive Grand Finals.
Allan Jeans was the only other coach to have achieved that with a club that shoots itself in the foot more often than not.
I for one enjoyed the ride.

Interestingly Yabby shipped one of our best 5 players of all time (IMHO), dual Brownlow medallist Ian Stewart, off to Richmond for a 'star' player Billy Barrot who stayed about 3 minutes before being shipped off to Carlton.
Stewart also went on to win a premiership and another Brownlow medal with Richmond as well as making their team of the century.

In hindsight I reckon Stewart would have been handy to have in the team in the 1971 losing grand final.

None of us are privy to the conversations that took place between Ball and Lyon but it does suit some agendas to portray what happened in a specific way.
Again IMHO the biggest failure of that period was the recruiting of Lovett, not the loss of Ball.
But even that can be viewed as 'understandable' if you buy into the notion that we found ourselves agonizingly short in 2009 and believed we needed an injection of midfield pace to rectify that problem.

Unfortunately history will show that Lovett never played a game for us and Ball ultimately won his premiership medal the following season playing for the Club he insisted on being traded to.

No question that Lyon coached us for the present with scant regard for the future.
But was that not his job?
Wasn't he brought in to 'finish the job' after GT brought us as far as he could (according to the Board)?
So one could argue that Lyon actually did what he was supposed to do (without actually winning a flag) and then left when he foresaw his role had changed - from finishing the job to redeveloping the list.

[matrix]

saw ball upstairs after the adelaide or port (cant remember who off top of head) game at aami that year
he was gone already

[SaintPav]

I'm no fan of Lyons. He did the dirty on us but ultimatley senior management and the board have to accept responsibility for the state we're in today.

From about 2008-10, RL had too much power.

The no name President was also at fault.

[spert]

I do remember watching Ball play for Sandy in the VFL one wet day, and he looked terrible and I was thinking how can such a good player fall in such a heap, but clearly the money men from Collingwood were already in his and his manager's ear- same as the Essendon mob were whispering in Goddard's ear last year when he went into self-preservation mode ready for a big season in 2013 at Essendon (NDS this season is looking very much in self-preservation mode too..)

The Collingwood fitness people were amazed at the poor level of fitness of Ball when he went there, so Lyon probably has something to answer for there. I'm pretty sure Lyon will never coach a premiership team, though get a lot of teams into finals...nice try Ross, but you ultimately tripped at the last hurdle at St Kilda.

Forget this season, as we need Watters and co to do serious list management for the rest of the year, and weed out those who haven't got the skills or hunger.

[SaintPav]

saw ball upstairs after the adelaide or port (cant remember who off top of head) game at aami that year
he was gone already

Why do you say that?

[plugger66]

We are all harsh with the luxury of hindsight.
Whilst most of what is being said is probably true, he did take us to 2 consecutive Grand Finals.
Allan Jeans was the only other coach to have achieved that with a club that shoots itself in the foot more often than not.
I for one enjoyed the ride.

Interestingly Yabby shipped one of our best 5 players of all time (IMHO), dual Brownlow medallist Ian Stewart, off to Richmond for a 'star' player Billy Barrot who stayed about 3 minutes before being shipped off to Carlton.
Stewart also went on to win a premiership and another Brownlow medal with Richmond as well as making their team of the century.

In hindsight I reckon Stewart would have been handy to have in the team in the 1971 losing grand final.

None of us are privy to the conversations that took place between Ball and Lyon but it does suit some agendas to portray what happened in a specific way.
Again IMHO the biggest failure of that period was the recruiting of Lovett, not the loss of Ball.
But even that can be viewed as 'understandable' if you buy into the notion that we found ourselves agonizingly short in 2009 and believed we needed an injection of midfield pace to rectify that problem.

Unfortunately history will show that Lovett never played a game for us and Ball ultimately won his premiership medal the following season playing for the Club he insisted on being traded to.

No question that Lyon coached us for the present with scant regard for the future.
But was that not his job?
Wasn't he brought in to 'finish the job' after GT brought us as far as he could (according to the Board)?
So one could argue that Lyon actually did what he was supposed to do (without actually winning a flag) and then left when he foresaw his role had changed - from finishing the job to redeveloping the list.

100% correct. The funny thing also is it seems the bad drafts were RL's fault and the good ones are the recruiters. The only bad pick we ever lost under RL for the trades, many which were a waste was Lovett, and as you say it was probably worth the gamble. The only real good player we lost was Ball and he couldnt do what RL wanted. have a look at his form in the last year if anyone needs proof. We got Schneider and Dempster for pick 20 something. Looks a great deal in hindsight and makes up for the Lovett deal. which other top draft pick did we lose. people need to stop blaming RL for pathetic drafting. That isnt his fault.

And more to the point when you have won one flag in 110 years when he was appointed I would take the try and win a flag attitude back then and stuff what happens afterwards. it was worth the punt. Brisbane were left with a stuffed list whan Matthews left but they won flags. We didnt and nearly always never do. Funny that no one on here ever said RL was a bad coach and will stuff up the club back in 2009 and 2010 but they do now. If anyone couldnt see what was happening then they werent looking closely enough at the list back then.

[Con Gorozidis]

The way I see it - in modern footy - the idea that the Sr Coach runs everything is long gone.
His job is to Coach the team - which he did well.

Other blokes jobs should be recruiting and trading. Ok so Lyon pissed Ball off - no doubt - but someone else should have stepped in once Ball was going and got the best deal for us. That never happened.

This happened when were grossly under-resourced in the area of Recruitment & List Mgt.
The Club should never have been in the position of having Lyon run all the jobs at the Club in this day and age. Massive fail by club in this respect from 2006-2010.

Not really Lyons fault. Not his job to be doing trade negotiations etc. Maybe in the 90s Coaches did this - not any more.

[MC Gusto]

100% agree with above. Even if Lyon said it was for him to manage the club should not have allowed it and should have stepped in once ball made it clear he wanted out. I will never get over nor forgive the club for letting go of a champion for nothing. Entire club administration at the time is responsible

[Eastern]

The National Recruiting Manager through the Ross Lyon era was a bloke named JOHN PEAKE. He came to us from Geelong when John Beverige started to wind down. I don't think we were as well resourced back then as we are now and LIST MANAGEMENT may have been a shared responsibility between LYON & PEAKE. I think the Board woke up (albeit, a bit late) to where we were heading and appointed Chris Pelchen & Ahmet Baines to help get us out of the mess we found ourselves in. It appears that neither of these appointments sat well with Lyon. I'm not sure when Peake got the flick, whether it was before or when Pelchen & Baines were appointed.

Let's just say that Lyon AND Peake left our list in a pretty poor state and that it will take time for Pelchen, Baines and Tony Elshau to restore the balance !!

[saintspremiers]

The National Recruiting Manager through the Ross Lyon era was a bloke named JOHN PEAKE. He came to us from Geelong when John Beverige started to wind down. I don't think we were as well resourced back then as we are now and LIST MANAGEMENT may have been a shared responsibility between LYON & PEAKE. I think the Board woke up (albeit, a bit late) to where we were heading and appointed Chris Pelchen & Ahmet Baines to help get us out of the mess we found ourselves in. It appears that neither of these appointments sat well with Lyon. I'm not sure when Peake got the flick, whether it was before or when Pelchen & Baines were appointed.

Let's just say that Lyon AND Peake left our list in a pretty poor state and that it will take time for Pelchen, Baines and Tony Elshau to restore the balance !!

All very true.

Luckily for us Lyon and Peake are both gone, but the board/prez that created the mess remain. Yes, they have redeemed themselves somewhat in recent years but is it time for a new Prez??

[HardSaint]

We may have relucantly accepted it but its important the wider community are made aware of what the scumbag left us with.

Whether this is true or not (as there are more variables at play) but I reckon her point that " a coach can be measured be state of the team he leaves compared to how he found it" is a pretty damning indictment on our Rossy.
GT was many things, but he left the list in good health and spirits, ready for the next step

Regarding LB, I must admit that I feel stung, seeing him loved and lauded over at the filth - seeing him the week before in interview really drove it home

[Eastern]

The National Recruiting Manager through the Ross Lyon era was a bloke named JOHN PEAKE. He came to us from Geelong when John Beverige started to wind down. I don't think we were as well resourced back then as we are now and LIST MANAGEMENT may have been a shared responsibility between LYON & PEAKE. I think the Board woke up (albeit, a bit late) to where we were heading and appointed Chris Pelchen & Ahmet Baines to help get us out of the mess we found ourselves in. It appears that neither of these appointments sat well with Lyon. I'm not sure when Peake got the flick, whether it was before or when Pelchen & Baines were appointed.

Let's just say that Lyon AND Peake left our list in a pretty poor state and that it will take time for Pelchen, Baines and Tony Elshau to restore the balance !!

All very true.

Luckily for us Lyon and Peake are both gone, but the board/prez that created the mess remain. Yes, they have redeemed themselves somewhat in recent years but is it time for a new Prez??

YES, and it will happen at the next AGM (I think). Greg Westaway is standing down. I think the CEO of Coles, Ian McLoed (I think) could be our next Prez !!

[plugger66]

We may have relucantly accepted it but its important the wider community are made aware of what the scumbag left us with.

Whether this is true or not (as there are more variables at play) but I reckon her point that " a coach can be measured be state of the team he leaves compared to how he found it" is a pretty damning indictment on our Rossy.
GT was many things, but he left the list in good health and spirits, ready for the next step

Regarding LB, I must admit that I feel stung, seeing him loved and lauded over at the filth - seeing him the week before in interview really drove it home

Under that theory Matthews wasnt a good coach then. And unsure how Gt could have stuffed up the list but having said that he had a much better list than RL had. Neither were blessed with the money for footy departments like some other clubs.

[SainterK]

Do you still believe he left cause it was "untenable" plugger66, or the fact he must of had a fair idea of what he could do with the freo list has changed your mind?

I reckon he wanted to go, and looked for an out.

Because he went against everything he preached in leaving.

[plugger66]

Do you still believe he left cause it was "untenable" plugger66, or the fact he must of had a fair idea of what he could do with the freo list has changed your mind?

I reckon he wanted to go, and looked for an out.

Because he went against everything he preached in leaving.

I cant remember ever saying he left because its untenable. What I find amazing is some seem happy he went because he stuffed up the club but in the same breath are pissed off he left. I think you will find that when there were rumours he was leaving I said i couldnt give a stuff.

I honestly think both parties were happy with the end result and i have never ever been annoyed at a players or coaches leaving. Disappointed or devistated but not annoyed with the people leaving. have been upset with the club sometimes though. i also have no doubt many now blaming RL for how we are must have had their heads in the sand if they couldnt see it was going to happen. i also think some are that upset with him leaving they are rewriting history on how their thoughts were about RL back in 2009 and 10. Just go back and read some old posts and sit back and laugh.

[stinger]

We are all harsh with the luxury of hindsight.
Whilst most of what is being said is probably true, he did take us to 2 consecutive Grand Finals.

might have won the drawn game with ball playing for us...instead of agin us.....

[stinger]

We are all harsh with the luxury of hindsight.
Whilst most of what is being said is probably true, he did take us to 2 consecutive Grand Finals.
Allan Jeans was the only other coach to have achieved that with a club that shoots itself in the foot more often than not.
I for one enjoyed the ride.

Interestingly Yabby shipped one of our best 5 players of all time (IMHO), dual Brownlow medallist Ian Stewart, off to Richmond for a 'star' player Billy Barrot who stayed about 3 minutes before being shipped off to Carlton.
Stewart also went on to win a premiership and another Brownlow medal with Richmond as well as making their team of the century.

In hindsight I reckon Stewart would have been handy to have in the team in the 1971 losing grand final.

None of us are privy to the conversations that took place between Ball and Lyon but it does suit some agendas to portray what happened in a specific way.
Again IMHO the biggest failure of that period was the recruiting of Lovett, not the loss of Ball.
But even that can be viewed as 'understandable' if you buy into the notion that we found ourselves agonizingly short in 2009 and believed we needed an injection of midfield pace to rectify that problem.

Unfortunately history will show that Lovett never played a game for us and Ball ultimately won his premiership medal the following season playing for the Club he insisted on being traded to.

No question that Lyon coached us for the present with scant regard for the future.
But was that not his job?
Wasn't he brought in to 'finish the job' after GT brought us as far as he could (according to the Board)?
So one could argue that Lyon actually did what he was supposed to do (without actually winning a flag) and then left when he foresaw his role had changed - from finishing the job to redeveloping the list.

you're trying to repaint history there mate.....or show judas in a much better light than he deserves...the creep left for the money and the glory ...simple as that......

jeans, a copper.. couldn't stand having stewart...a flasher ...around the club.....and we got conned by the tigers....we would also have won the 97 grannie if the afl hadn't bent us over and helped the swine steal plugger from us.......hall would have also been an attribute in all our final series in the early 2000s........shame...but that is our cross to bear....

[markp]

We are all harsh with the luxury of hindsight.
Whilst most of what is being said is probably true, he did take us to 2 consecutive Grand Finals.
Allan Jeans was the only other coach to have achieved that with a club that shoots itself in the foot more often than not.
I for one enjoyed the ride.

Interestingly Yabby shipped one of our best 5 players of all time (IMHO), dual Brownlow medallist Ian Stewart, off to Richmond for a 'star' player Billy Barrot who stayed about 3 minutes before being shipped off to Carlton.
Stewart also went on to win a premiership and another Brownlow medal with Richmond as well as making their team of the century.

In hindsight I reckon Stewart would have been handy to have in the team in the 1971 losing grand final.

None of us are privy to the conversations that took place between Ball and Lyon but it does suit some agendas to portray what happened in a specific way.
Again IMHO the biggest failure of that period was the recruiting of Lovett, not the loss of Ball.
But even that can be viewed as 'understandable' if you buy into the notion that we found ourselves agonizingly short in 2009 and believed we needed an injection of midfield pace to rectify that problem.

Unfortunately history will show that Lovett never played a game for us and Ball ultimately won his premiership medal the following season playing for the Club he insisted on being traded to.

No question that Lyon coached us for the present with scant regard for the future.
But was that not his job?
Wasn't he brought in to 'finish the job' after GT brought us as far as he could (according to the Board)?
So one could argue that Lyon actually did what he was supposed to do (without actually winning a flag) and then left when he foresaw his role had changed - from finishing the job to redeveloping the list.

100% correct. The funny thing also is it seems the bad drafts were RL's fault and the good ones are the recruiters. The only bad pick we ever lost under RL for the trades, many which were a waste was Lovett, and as you say it was probably worth the gamble. The only real good player we lost was Ball and he couldnt do what RL wanted. have a look at his form in the last year if anyone needs proof. We got Schneider and Dempster for pick 20 something. Looks a great deal in hindsight and makes up for the Lovett deal. which other top draft pick did we lose. people need to stop blaming RL for pathetic drafting. That isnt his fault.

And more to the point when you have won one flag in 110 years when he was appointed I would take the try and win a flag attitude back then and stuff what happens afterwards. it was worth the punt. Brisbane were left with a stuffed list whan Matthews left but they won flags. We didnt and nearly always never do. Funny that no one on here ever said RL was a bad coach and will stuff up the club back in 2009 and 2010 but they do now. If anyone couldnt see what was happening then they werent looking closely enough at the list back then.

Agree, agree, agree.

For all we know the plan was always to bottom out and rebuild immediately after that era... for all we know SW is now tanking perfectly, according to his brief.

I don't think we're in dire shape or too far away from being a decent side again anyway... pick 3 will/should help!

It's not ross lyon's fault we're not geelong. They are truly freakish.

But those were great days for us... RL squeezed just about every last drop and got us so close.

Of course there were missteps, but hindsight heroism is for flogs.

If SW proves as good or can go just an inch further than RL then we'll have been blessed.

[SainterK]

Do you still believe he left cause it was "untenable" plugger66, or the fact he must of had a fair idea of what he could do with the freo list has changed your mind?

I reckon he wanted to go, and looked for an out.

Because he went against everything he preached in leaving.

I cant remember ever saying he left because its untenable. What I find amazing is some seem happy he went because he stuffed up the club but in the same breath are pissed off he left. I think you will find that when there were rumours he was leaving I said i couldnt give a stuff.

I honestly think both parties were happy with the end result and i have never ever been annoyed at a players or coaches leaving. Disappointed or devistated but not annoyed with the people leaving. have been upset with the club sometimes though. i also have no doubt many now blaming RL for how we are must have had their heads in the sand if they couldnt see it was going to happen. i also think some are that upset with him leaving they are rewriting history on how their thoughts were about RL back in 2009 and 10. Just go back and read some old posts and sit back and laugh.

I didn't say you said that...I was more asking if you believed his reasons.

I'm saying he said that is why he left.

I think it isn't why he left.

That was more my point.