Operation Gws

[lloyd21]

Hope Pelchen /Elshaug/Bains target Gws in end of next year they can't hope to keep all these players
contracted going forward ..particularly with salary cap

Devon Smith

Toby Greene

Will Hoskin Elliott

Matthew Buntine

Tomas Bugg

Adam Treloar

Adam Tomlinson

Jeremy Cameron

Dylan Shiel


They will lose at least one of these to financial $$ & coming home factor hope we get one

[St Ick]

A lot of those kids if not all of them signed contracts at the end of last year to tie them to the club til end of 14 or 15.

I do agree there will be opportunities to get some of them, especially a kpp and midfielder like Tyson who hasnt shown as much and wont now after doing a knee, however they would come at a great cost and does anyone really think SOS will just do us a favour and give us someone like Greene?

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Dom Tyson is probably the one we would be most keen on, especially if Lenny happens to retire and is the one that it would seem is the most desperate to come home, after Richmond tried to get him in the trade period just recently (on the back of him apparently being super-keen to come back to Melbourne and having previously been mad keen on them).

If he does walk out on them next year, like Caddy did Gold Coast this year, then the Melbourne team that wants him the most and who has the lowest draft pick will probably get him. A pick between 4 and 8 would probably do the job. Maybe even as high as 10, if he doesn't do much next season. Will Hoskin Elliott is another one that has apparently not extended his contract, despite being given the opportunity to do so. He is very skinny though, so might not be as much of a priority as someone like Tyson for us, given that we already have quite a few outside skinny types that look promising (Milera, Markworth, Dunell, Webster, not to mention Gilbert). Probably wouldn't knock him back if he became available though and I think we'll be very keen to make the most of our relationship with SOS at every opportunity.

[lloyd21]

Think you will find Dom Tyson will be at Richmond next year wants out already.


Gws can't sign them all on long term as they need to delist 4 players every year.

Uncontracted players will go where the $ are.
Stkilda will be able to offer more $ as they will have a low salary cap next year ...Hayes probably gone Kosi gone Riewoldt cheap Goddard gone
Stkfc will have more than 21 players under the age of 21 by end of new year.

Good Platform ...

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Richmond may want him and he is apparently massively keen to get to them, but will they have a draft pick high enough to offer GWS for him? Given that they, as you said, won't want to add to their list, due to having to reduce its numbers, they won't want multiple picks, or a pick and a "GOP" for him, so the team that offers GWS the highest pick for him will probably get him.

He would obviously have to agree to the trade, but if he risks going into the draft, that same team (or any other) could pick him up ahead of Richmond there anyway. Lets not forget how keen Caddy was to get to Essendon last year, yet 12 months on they weren't even one of the teams that he nominated as an option for Gold Coast to trade him to, so a lot can change in 12 months. Richmond would probably have to finish 10th or lower to get him I reckon.

[bergholt]

Gws can't sign them all on long term as they need to delist 4 players every year.

I know nothing about their list, but you've only named about 10 guys above. Surely there are another 35 or so who could be in line for delisting?

[lloyd21]

They won't delist any of the above ..they are all guns

But when you add the players they have picked up then Patton who is the next "Lockett" the question is going to be how can they keep them all is what I am getting at.

[MCG-Unit]

GWS' salary cap is a bottomless pit - bet they will never be investigated. If it's only money, GWS will contract whoever they want.
If it's go-home factor or other reasons, that may be different.

[plugger66]

GWS' salary cap is a bottomless pit - bet they will never be investigated. If it's only money, GWS will contract whoever they want.
If it's go-home factor or other reasons, that may be different.

Not sure about that otherwise they would have got Tippett.

[MCG-Unit]

GWS' salary cap is a bottomless pit - bet they will never be investigated. If it's only money, GWS will contract whoever they want.
If it's go-home factor or other reasons, that may be different.

Not sure about that otherwise they would have got Tippett.

You may be right. I thought it was more they didn't want to pay Tippett's Draft terms, seeing he is missing half a season.
Also they would have a lot of other contracts coming up in the next couple of years.

GWS have Cameron and a couple of other tall forwards, and Giles, Brogan plus a young guy called Phillips to do the ruck. They could have taken Brodie Grundy at 12 or 14 who can do the fwd/ruck role. I reckon Sheedy was just stirring.

Many guys seem to end up drafted to where they prefer (and where they're wanted), Kavanagh to Ess last year, Jacobs to NM, Simpson to the Docker and Tippett to Swans this year.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Yeah I think they could have gotten him if they'd wanted to, but with the fact he was only going to play for half of next year, plus the fact he is possibly one more concussion away from being in real strife and also the little matter that it is questionable if he is worth that much money anyway, they passed.

They have something like $1million or more extra in their salary cap than all the other teams (except Gold Coast) for the next year or two and then on top of that they have the same housing allowance that Sydney have (about $900K), so they effectively have something like $2million+ more to throw around than say we do. They also apparently front-ended the initial contracts of the likes of Scully, Ward and co. so that a huge chunk of them were paid up-front this year, which means that they would have a huge amount of space available to them from next year on, helped even more by Folau pulling the pin (even though the AFL paid a chunk of his salary).

[plugger66]

Yeah I think they could have gotten him if they'd wanted to, but with the fact he was only going to play for half of next year, plus the fact he is possibly one more concussion away from being in real strife and also the little matter that it is questionable if he is worth that much money anyway, they passed.

They have something like $1million or more extra in their salary cap than all the other teams (except Gold Coast) for the next year or two and then on top of that they have the same housing allowance that Sydney have (about $900K), so they effectively have something like $2million+ more to throw around than say we do. They also apparently front-ended the initial contracts of the likes of Scully, Ward and co. so that a huge chunk of them were paid up-front this year, which means that they would have a huge amount of space available to them from next year on, helped even more by Folau pulling the pin (even though the AFL paid a chunk of his salary).

So why didnt they get Tippett then? You have given us reason why they should not have taken him but then the next paragraph you said money wont be an issue. My guess is it will be an issue otherwise you would take the best players available.

[St Ick]

I agree Plugger they went cold as soon as he nominated terms. My guess is Tippett had a backended contract, and GWS werent interested in it due to the issues they'll have trying to pay good money to a bunch of first round picks in a few years.

As was said, Caddy was desperate to go to the Dons and this year due to circumstances they were never linked. Just because Dom was linked to Tyson a lot can happen in 12 months. I do recall reading the Lenny mentored him in his final U18 year also. So there is a connection already. It would mean yet another first round pick traded away do we really want to do that?

[quidnunc]

Why bother!

[st_Trav_ofWA]

personally i wouldnt bother at this stage ... all of those players mentiones will have their value pumped up so efectivly a Toby Greene (who honestly i dont really rate that highly , i mean he gets the ball a lot but he doesnt do much with it) would be costing you a first rounder and a player or a first and second round pick ... honestly i would rather go to the draft ourselves ... it would be fun to show interest in the players forcing GWS to pay overs to keep them though

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

So why didnt they get Tippett then? You have given us reason why they should not have taken him but then the next paragraph you said money wont be an issue. My guess is it will be an issue otherwise you would take the best players available.

You'd have to ask them, but apparently they came out and said that they didn't think it was money well spent to be paying someone that much money who was only going to be playing for half of one of those years, so maybe they just did the maths and didn't think he was worth that much money over the course of his contract, just like how we apparently didn't think BJ was worth as much money as he wanted, even though he was also the "best available player" who we had enough money to afford if we were prepared to pay him that much. We now have a chunk of salary cap space free after passing on Goddard and likewise GWS have a chunk of salary cap space free after passing on Tippett. Giving Tippett $1million for 4 years would have taken up a big chunk of their salary cap and not left them with as much room to move on others and maybe they did the maths and thought they could get more value for money in another way.

One such way is by possibly drafting Thomas Boyd with pick 1 in next year's draft (if they finish bottom, which they almost certainly will). Apparently they are red hot on him and he is 198cm already and was monstering forward lines in the U18's and the national championships this year, despite being underage and ineligible to be drafted this year, so maybe they weighed Tippett up with the similar Boyd and decided that they would rather get Boyd next year for a fraction of the cost, with the strong possibility that he will be better than Tippett in the long run anyway, rather than spend $4 million on Tippett, who comes with a bit of baggage, including a history of concussions, which surely make him a significant risk. Of course Boyd is also a "risk", but as far as junior "risks" goes, he is about as much of a "certainty" to succeed in the AFL as anyone at that age and has apparently been dominating a fair bit more than Johnathan Patton (who they drafted at no.1 last year) was at the same age, so knowing that he is likely to be available next year would have made it a lot easier to pass on Tippett, I imagine.

[plugger66]

So why didnt they get Tippett then? You have given us reason why they should not have taken him but then the next paragraph you said money wont be an issue. My guess is it will be an issue otherwise you would take the best players available.

You'd have to ask them, but apparently they came out and said that they didn't think it was money well spent to be paying someone that much money who was only going to be playing for half of one of those years, so maybe they just did the maths and didn't think he was worth that much money over the course of his contract, just like how we apparently didn't think BJ was worth as much money as he wanted, even though he was also the "best available player" who we had enough money to afford if we were prepared to pay him that much. We now have a chunk of salary cap space free after passing on Goddard and likewise GWS have a chunk of salary cap space free after passing on Tippett. Giving Tippett $1million for 4 years would have taken up a big chunk of their salary cap and not left them with as much room to move on others and maybe they did the maths and thought they could get more value for money in another way.

One such way is by possibly drafting Thomas Boyd with pick 1 in next year's draft (if they finish bottom, which they almost certainly will). Apparently they are red hot on him and he is 198cm already and was monstering forward lines in the U18's and the national championships this year, despite being underage and ineligible to be drafted this year, so maybe they weighed Tippett up with the similar Boyd and decided that they would rather get Boyd next year for a fraction of the cost, with the strong possibility that he will be better than Tippett in the long run anyway, rather than spend $4 million on Tippett, who comes with a bit of baggage, including a history of concussions, which surely make him a significant risk. Of course Boyd is also a "risk", but as far as junior "risks" goes, he is about as much of a "certainty" to succeed in the AFL as anyone at that age and has apparently been dominating a fair bit more than Johnathan Patton (who they drafted at no.1 last year) was at the same age, so knowing that he is likely to be available next year would have made it a lot easier to pass on Tippett, I imagine.

Tippets contract was only 2 years. And I doubt very much we had the money for BJ.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

So there is a connection already. It would mean yet another first round pick traded away do we really want to do that?

If Tyson was available next year and he was given a clean bill of health and had shown that he was still playing the sort of footy that he was playing which saw him taken at no. 3 in the draft in the first place (and has the character we are looking for these days), I wouldn't hesitate to give up our first pick next year for him, if it was a pick around the 7-12 range (as long as there was no-one else we wanted even more, in either the draft or a trade). I would take it and run like I'd stolen it!

He looks like exactly what we'll need for when Lenny retires and he would come with the added bonus of having two preseasons and a bunch of games under his belt and being likely to be ready to come in and make a solid contribution immediately. He has the similar sized big body to Lenny (a fair bit bigger than the likes of Steven, Ledger and Curren) has a thumping, high quality left foot on him and accumulates more of the ball than say Armo or Jack tend to for us. He is a genuine, high class, top 5 draft pick who has already shown that he can mix it with the big boys in the AFL, finishing off his season this year with a 24 possie game against us in R22 and then a 26 possie game against North in the last round.

Hopefully we'll finish too high next year to have a draft pick high enough to be able to get him, but he has pretty much the exact attributes that we will most likely be looking for when we go into free agency/trade period and the drafts next year, so I wouldn't have any problem at all with giving up a draft pick for him. In fact if it meant getting the job done, I'd possibly be willing to give up more than that for him, because we may be needing some more "high-end"/"elite" talent in our midfield going forward and he would almost certainly provide that. I'm pretty happy with the depth of our "kids" now, but just believe we need to add someone "elite" to the mix and this could be one of the best ways to do that without completely bottoming out ourselves.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Tippets contract was only 2 years. And I doubt very much we had the money for BJ.

That's the first I've heard of Tippett only signing for two years, as all the talk leading in was that he wanted a 4 year deal and the article in the Australian the day after he was drafted said that they believed he has signed for 4 years, but I see the HS article on the day of says he was only going to sign for two, so that seems to have slipped under the radar a bit. (Although to be fair I had gotten sick of all the Tippett talk by then, so I had tuned out to a fair degree and stopped following it).

Didn't we (Watters I think it was) say that we had enough money to both sign up BJ and also have money spare to go after someone like Mitch Brown in the trade period? If what he said was true, I imagine we would have had enough money spare in the cap to have offered BJ more (prior to the free agency period- I don't mean matching Essendon's offer) if we really wanted to keep him. It just would have meant that we didn't have the money spare to go after anyone like Brown.

[3rd generation saint]

let's not forget their number one draft pick, both he and family massive Saint supporters, surely we could use that as an incentive to come to the club he and his family really loves.

[MCG-Unit]

let's not forget their number one draft pick, both he and family massive Saint supporters, surely we could use that as an incentive to come to the club he and his family really loves.

Who's that Patton?

Edit: Whitfield was a Hawthorn supporter

[8856brother]

let's not forget their number one draft pick, both he and family massive Saint supporters, surely we could use that as an incentive to come to the club he and his family really loves.

Who's that Whitfield or Patton?

I think the general was, or maybe still is a Saints fan.

[MCG-Unit]

let's not forget their number one draft pick, both he and family massive Saint supporters, surely we could use that as an incentive to come to the club he and his family really loves.

Who's that Whitfield or Patton?

I think the general was, or maybe still is a Saints fan.

Thanks beat me to it - I had just looked up Whitfield being a bigtime Hawker fan - so it must be Patton

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Can you imagine what we'd have to give up to get Patton?!

A top 3 pick would be a minimum requirement to get him, I would imagine and even that might not quite be enough. His family (and him) were heavily into us before he was drafted though, I believe.

He is another one who apparently hasn't re-signed or extended his contract, but that may just be to let him get some games under the belt to increase his asking price when he does.

[plugger66]

No idea what being a Saints fan means. Im sure when BJ was drafted by us that people thought if he ever did leave us it would be for Carlton.