MRP Round 10

[saintbrat]

Jake King, Richmond, has been charged with a level one tripping offence against Stephen Milne, St Kilda, during the first quarter of the Round 10 match between Richmond and St Kilda, played at Etihad Stadium on Friday June 1, 2012.

In summary, due to his poor record, his sanction is increased to a one-match penalty, even with an early plea.

Based on the video evidence available and a medical report from the St Kilda Football Club, the incident was assessed as reckless conduct (two points), low impact (one point) and body contact (one point). This is a total of four activation points, resulting in a classification of a level one offence, drawing 80 demerit points and a reprimand. He has an existing bad record of five matches suspended within the last three years, increasing the penalty by 50 per cent to 120 demerit points and a one-match sanction. He also has 71.85 points carried over from within the last 12 months, increasing the penalty to 191.85 points and a one-match sanction. An early plea reduces the sanction by 25 per cent to 143.89 points and a one-match sanction.
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Other incidents Assessed:
Contact between Richmond's Jake King and St Kilda's Sean Dempster from the second quarter of Friday's match was assessed. The ball was being kicked into the Richmond forward line to player Robbie Nahas when King blocked Dempster from going to the contest. It was the view of the panel that King's actions were not excessive or unreasonable in the circumstances. No further action was taken.

Contact between St Kilda's Stephen Milne and Richmond's Alex Rance from the second quarter of Friday's match was assessed. It was the view of the panel the force used was below that required to constitute a reportable offence. No further action was taken.


http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

[ozrulestrace]

Was that the moment Stephen Milne was tripped in the first quarter right in front of us in aisle 38, which was ignored by the umpire, and they got a goal?
Thanks for nuthing MRP and your umpire mates

[plugger66]

Was that the moment Stephen Milne was tripped in the first quarter right in front of us in aisle 38, which was ignored by the umpire, and they got a goal?
Thanks for nuthing MRP and your umpire mates

How the hell is the MRP fault the umpires missed a free? Even when our player, Milne, gets off and one of theirs gets reported it is there fault.

[perfectionist]

Was that the moment Stephen Milne was tripped in the first quarter right in front of us in aisle 38, which was ignored by the umpire, and they got a goal?

Yep, that's the one.
MRP 1
Umpire 0
Stephen Milne -176

[quidnunc]

I was lucky enough to be down from NSW to see the game and did see that tripping incident. Definetely agee it may have cost us a goal. However, if someone thinks we got a bum deal and comments on it, fair enough as far as I am concerned - no need to bag them for being passionate.

[Eastern]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

[Rosco]

Was that the moment Stephen Milne was tripped in the first quarter right in front of us in aisle 38, which was ignored by the umpire, and they got a goal?
Thanks for nuthing MRP and your umpire mates

How the hell is the MRP fault the umpires missed a free? Even when our player, Milne, gets off and one of theirs gets reported it is there fault.

he did say thanks for "nuthing", and we are getting no benefit from king missing richmond's next game despite the offence being against milney.

would love if they could re-jig the system so the punishment would be missing the next st klda - richmond game but the logistics of that would never allow it.

[plugger66]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

I thought we got a pretty good deal on Friday night. There were errors and the obvious one was Milne. Kosi missed from 10 metres out when he shouldnt have even got a free. That wouldnt even happen at lower levels.

[CURLY]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

I thought we got a pretty good deal on Friday night. There were errors and the obvious one was Milne. Kosi missed from 10 metres out when he shouldnt have even got a free. That wouldnt even happen at lower levels.

What part of Kosi's wasn't a free kick?

[Eastern]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

I thought we got a pretty good deal on Friday night. There were errors and the obvious one was Milne. Kosi missed from 10 metres out when he shouldnt have even got a free. That wouldnt even happen at lower levels.

I still say that the reports on the umpires SHOULD be made public. Protecting them isn't going to improve them. By highlighting the Kosi incident (and I agree with you on that) you seem to be agreeing that there is plenty of room for improvement in the umpiring ranks !!

[Eastern]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

I thought we got a pretty good deal on Friday night. There were errors and the obvious one was Milne. Kosi missed from 10 metres out when he shouldnt have even got a free. That wouldnt even happen at lower levels.

What part of Kosi's wasn't a free kick?

I probably should have been holding the ball BEFORE the high contact !!

[plugger66]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

I thought we got a pretty good deal on Friday night. There were errors and the obvious one was Milne. Kosi missed from 10 metres out when he shouldnt have even got a free. That wouldnt even happen at lower levels.

I still say that the reports on the umpires SHOULD be made public. Protecting them isn't going to improve them. By highlighting the Kosi incident (and I agree with you on that) you seem to be agreeing that there is plenty of room for improvement in the umpiring ranks !!

Do we get player reports? Of course not. And how boring would it be. And I beleive umpires will always make mistakes. They average 13-15% a game and it hasnt gone up over the last few years. With the game getting more difficult to umpire that suggests improvement.

[perfectionist]

We constantly hear from certain apologists that, just as players make mistakes, umpires also make mistakes. And that's true. Although, from my experience watching football at the VFL/AFL level, umpires make far fewer mistakes than players. Which is just as well, otherwise there would be an umpiring mistake every minute. Of course, from the perspective of that ignorant proportion of the supporting public, umpires make a mistake every time an opposition player goes near the ball. You know the type, the person who yells "ball" as soon as an opposition player is tackled irrespective of whether and when he disposes of it. They are part of the moron brigade which inhibit this earth. Nothing much you can do about them - in a civilised society anyway.

However, one thing which particularly annoys me, is the suggestion that umpiring is as difficult as playing. It's not. I umpired over 300 games and never received one bump, shirtfront, elbow or tackle. In fact, I never received one injury at all in my career (bit lucky there). Of course, as a football tragic, umpiring was simply a consolation prize for not being good enough to play the game. But it was good, until I got sick of the abuse from supporters. Funnily enough, I got very little abuse from players, basically because they were too concerned with playing and I would attempt to explain every decision I gave.

So why do we still have some poor umpires? I suspect it is based around the question, "why would anyone want to do it?" In all modesty, I can still look from the stands and call almost every free or non free. It would be easier if I was a little closer, although being too close can be a problem. It shouldn't matter these days with three umps.

I saw Stephen Milne tripped just as the umpire did, and I was on level 3. I know it because I saw his face - the umps - even from level 3. He chose to ignore it. He should re evaluate his position. I can't defend his position.

[Moods]

I still shake my head that the controlling umpire didn't pay a free kick and/or report King on the night. It's HOWLERS like this and the NON FREE to Nick Riewoldt that really get up my nose. Its time the highly paid prima donna umpires at this level are exposed for such POOR decisions. Yes, I fully understand that this couldn't hapen at lower levels but AFL is a multi million dollar industry and the consequences of umpire incompetence can be very costly. An apology from the AFL is NOT ENOUGH !!

I thought we got a pretty good deal on Friday night. There were errors and the obvious one was Milne. Kosi missed from 10 metres out when he shouldnt have even got a free. That wouldnt even happen at lower levels.

What part of Kosi's wasn't a free kick?

I thought that Kos dragged the ball in, and from where I was sitting the contact to him didn't look high. I was seated Aisle 44 in the fwd pocket near where it happened. However I have yet to see the replay. TV gives you the best view of such matters

[kosifantutti]

Do we get player reports? Of course not. And how boring would it be. And I beleive umpires will always make mistakes. They average 13-15% a game and it hasnt gone up over the last few years. With the game getting more difficult to umpire that suggests improvement.

You're quoting some stat where the umpires assess their own performance? Well that's reliable.

[plugger66]

Do we get player reports? Of course not. And how boring would it be. And I beleive umpires will always make mistakes. They average 13-15% a game and it hasnt gone up over the last few years. With the game getting more difficult to umpire that suggests improvement.

You're quoting some stat where the umpires assess their own performance? Well that's reliable.

Well can you give me other stats to quote? Anyway they have always done it so whether it is 13% or 30% it hasnt gone up. And do you agree the game looks harder to umpire because of the amount of players around the ball.

[kosifantutti]

Do we get player reports? Of course not. And how boring would it be. And I beleive umpires will always make mistakes. They average 13-15% a game and it hasnt gone up over the last few years. With the game getting more difficult to umpire that suggests improvement.

You're quoting some stat where the umpires assess their own performance? Well that's reliable.

Well can you give me other stats to quote? Anyway they have always done it so whether it is 13% or 30% it hasnt gone up. And do you agree the game looks harder to umpire because of the amount of players around the ball.

I'm 21.3% better looking than I was five years ago and you must agree that most people get uglier as they get older so it is quite a remarkable statistic.

[plugger66]

]You're quoting some stat where the umpires assess their own performance? Well that's reliable.

Well can you give me other stats to quote? Anyway they have always done it so whether it is 13% or 30% it hasnt gone up. And do you agree the game looks harder to umpire because of the amount of players around the ball.

I'm 21.3% better looking than I was five years ago and you must agree that most people get uglier as they get older so it is quite a remarkable statistic.

I am the same and my looks were judged by umpires.

[Mr Magic]

I think the analogy with players also making mistakes is wrong on the following basis

When a player makes a mistake invariably the coach sends the runner out to tell him what he did wrong and what he's expected to fix.
If the mistake is so bad the player invariably gets 'dragged' to face the ire of the coach over the telephone.

Unfortunately the same doesn't occur with the umpres when they make a mistake.

The mistakes made by players can (and are) addressed immediately. Not so with the umpires.

The non-free paid to Milne in that incident was a complete howler.
I too was in aisle 38 on Lvl 2 and the umpire was in perfect position to see it.
BUT he didn't deem it an infringment of the tripping rule?

So when do you think he was informed that his 'knowledge' of that particular rule was incorrect?
Qtr time?
Half time?
3/4 time?
After the game?
After the review?
After the MRP decision?
Ever?

He continued on for at least that quarter umpiring on the assumtion that his 'view' on tripping was correct.
Maybe we should all consider ourselves lucky that he didn't have more adjudications on that rule to stuff up?

[plugger66]

I think the analogy with players also making mistakes is wrong on the following basis

When a player makes a mistake invariably the coach sends the runner out to tell him what he did wrong and what he's expected to fix.
If the mistake is so bad the player invariably gets 'dragged' to face the ire of the coach over the telephone.

Unfortunately the same doesn't occur with the umpres when they make a mistake.

The mistakes made by players can (and are) addressed immediately. Not so with the umpires.

The non-free paid to Milne in that incident was a complete howler.
I too was in aisle 38 on Lvl 2 and the umpire was in perfect position to see it.
BUT he didn't deem it an infringment of the tripping rule?

So when do you think he was informed that his 'knowledge' of that particular rule was incorrect?
Qtr time?
Half time?
3/4 time?
After the game?
After the review?
After the MRP decision?
Ever?

He continued on for at least that quarter umpiring on the assumtion that his 'view' on tripping was correct.
Maybe we should all consider ourselves lucky that he didn't have more adjudications on that rule to stuff up?

They speak to the umpires at the end of every quarter. Whether they talk about mistakes who knows. They may but they do after the game. i have heard them say they revue the game at least 2 times per umpire. I am unsure what else they could do. Anyway the umpire probably knew he made a mistake nearly straight after he didnt pay the Milne kick. He cant go back though. Im still more owrried about things we can control like Kosi missing from 10 metres out or stupid decision making. And i bet a runner didnt go out to Kosi after he missed and neither he should.

[Mr Magic]

I think the analogy with players also making mistakes is wrong on the following basis

When a player makes a mistake invariably the coach sends the runner out to tell him what he did wrong and what he's expected to fix.
If the mistake is so bad the player invariably gets 'dragged' to face the ire of the coach over the telephone.

Unfortunately the same doesn't occur with the umpres when they make a mistake.

The mistakes made by players can (and are) addressed immediately. Not so with the umpires.

The non-free paid to Milne in that incident was a complete howler.
I too was in aisle 38 on Lvl 2 and the umpire was in perfect position to see it.
BUT he didn't deem it an infringment of the tripping rule?

So when do you think he was informed that his 'knowledge' of that particular rule was incorrect?
Qtr time?
Half time?
3/4 time?
After the game?
After the review?
After the MRP decision?
Ever?

He continued on for at least that quarter umpiring on the assumtion that his 'view' on tripping was correct.
Maybe we should all consider ourselves lucky that he didn't have more adjudications on that rule to stuff up?

They speak to the umpires at the end of every quarter. Whether they talk about mistakes who knows. They may but they do after the game. i have heard them say they revue the game at least 2 times per umpire. I am unsure what else they could do. Anyway the umpire probably knew he made a mistake nearly straight after he didnt pay the Milne kick. He cant go back though. Im still more owrried about things we can control like Kosi missing from 10 metres out or stupid decision making. And i bet a runner didnt go out to Kosi after he missed and neither he should.

But what if he didn't think he'd made a mistake?
Neither you nor I know if he did/didn't.
All we know for sure is thaqt he made a howler of a decision and that the very first time he MAY have been made aware of it is at qtr time.

Why?
Why shouldn't umpires be told immediately that they've made a mistake?
Surely waiting for an end of quarter break or until after the game is not satisfactory.
If the umpire is wrong in his understanding of a rule then the quicker he knows about it the quicker he will stop making wrong decisions.

If you're going to use the 'players make mistakes' argument then surely you must also agree that umpires should have the ability to be 'told' that they've made an error?
The question then is who should tell them?
The players atren't allowed to
The coaches aren't allowed to.

Who is/should?

[Mr Magic]

And of course it would never happen becasue there is no way the AFL/Umpires would allow the crowd to see, during the game, that an umpire made a mistake/
Can you imagine the derision the crowd would feel if an umpire was 'told' that his decisoin was 'wrong'?

It's good enough for players to face that but not the umpires, for the good of the game no doubt.

It appears that the 'thinking' is to make players 'uncertain' about how the rule should operate rather than admit that the umpires are human and make mistakes.
It may diminish their standing in the eyes of the players

Rather than ensure correct decisions are made it would appear the AFL/Umpires would prefer that the umpires authority not be questioned.

But then again why should we expect it to be any different.
Afterall we have a FIXture designed to m,aximize revenue as its prime objective rather than be 'fair'.
Why then shouldn't we have an adjudication system designed to uphold umpires authority rahter than adjudicate corectly.

On another issue, can somebody please tell me why the field umpire waited until he was back in the centre with the footy before deciding to ask the video review to check on Saad's goal?
Surely he's already given all-clear and the goal umpire had called a goal?
What was the process that allowed this field umpire to call fro the review so late?

[perfectionist]

...What was the process that allowed this field umpire to call fro the review so late?

Who knows? The current video review system is hopeless. The first problem is that it leaves the people who actaully came to the game in the dark. The umpire's mic can be heard by the TV audience (if it is turned up) but not by the crowd at the game. That should be the number one priority. Second, as we all know too well, the system should be used to check whether the ball has hit the post. Third, the system should not be used to check whether the ball is touched, be it off the boot or on the line. This is because the technology is simply not good enough to pick up what the eye can see. This is the same for potential "grassed" catches in cricket. Just as umpires should deliberate on those, the umpires should deliberate on ''touched" balls. Discussion between umpires (goal, boundary and field) almost always produces the best result. The video only serves to blur rather than clarify.

And on the issue of changing a goal umpire's decision, it can be changed (by the goal umpire crossing the flags) at any time up until the ball is actually bounced or kicked in.

[Life Long Saint]

Do we get player reports? Of course not.

Clearly we do! Any Fantasy Footy coach will tell you that!
Number of disposals, kicking efficiency, tackles, 1%ers, pressure acts, clangers, dream team points....all measure performance of a player. These are just raw stats and we can draw our own conclusions on performance based on those. But you can bet that players with low possession counts and low disposal efficiency won't be playing senior footy for much longer if those numbers don't improve.

It's not a tough task to assess umpires on a few simple stats.
- Free kicks paid.
- Free kicks missed.
- Unwarranted free kicks paid.
- Percentage of correct decisions.
- Scores resulting from missed or unwarranted free kicks.
This can be broken down by umpire and then by team.

Clear KPI's to be measured against. Non-performing umpires would be sent back to the minor leagues to get better.

[Thinline]

As an aside...Kelly hip to the head and Glass no attempt to tackle and shoulder charge to head. Both walk???

WTF?????

Staggering...