Match ups for

[BigMart]

Obviously our key defense has been highlighted as a problem

We have
Blake 191cm 94kg 31yo and slow....good honest trier, but not good enough now...never really been a key defender anyway
Wilkes 194cm 98kg 26yo and slow with average skills.....good size but really he's a back up fringe player
Fisher 192cm 94kg 29yo gun, not ideally suited to playing as a key defensive stopper, naturally attacking
Simpkin 191cm 90kg 21yo undersized and young, he gives a great contest, courageous but a key defensive post at afl level??
gwilt 188cm 95kg 26yo strong but short. Very good player but cooking back from a knee
Dempster 191cm 88kg 27yo not a key defender at all, plays shorter than 6'
Goddard 190cm 92kg 27yo not a key defender....not a great defender period
Gilbert 194cm 91kg 26yo tallest of our back, but is a lightly framed running back. Body on body is average

All of those players are better suited to either a third tall defender position or utility defender who can take different match ups....none are good on gorillas and all struggle one out

Rally surprised we never made a huge play for Marty warnock?? Or another

So who for

Tippett 200cm Walker 193cm
Brown 194cm
Waite 194cm Kruzer 201cm
Cloke 195cm Dawes 194cm
Hurley 192cm Ryder 197cm
Bradley 198cm pavlich 190
Hawkins 197cm Podsiadly 193cm
Franklin 196cm Hale 200cm Roughead 193cm
Petrie 197cm
Clarke 197cm
Schultz 194cm Butcher 195cm Westoff 199cm
Riewoldt 195cm vickery 201cm
S.Ried 195cm Goodes 194cm
Kennedy 197cm Darling 192cm
Jones 195cm Grant 195cm
Even
Lynch 199cm
Folau 195cm

And that without resting ruckmen like Cox, Hille, Hampson, McIntosh, Jolly, Jamar, West and co wandering fwd

Big ask for our backs this year IMO

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

That does not make pleasant reading and I think you forgot Q Lynch and Nic Nat from WC.

[Old Mate]

We've done ok in the past and the only bloke we're missing is Dawson....and Gwilt from injury. It comes down to our mids winning their share of the contested footy and putting pressure on their opposites so the opposition don't get easy entries into our backline. Time for some midfielders to step...Armo I'm looking at you.

[gringo]

At least Butcher has given himself some time off before we need to thaw out Mick martin from his cryogenic chamber.

[BigMart]

The loss of Dawson does have a bigger impact than just him not in the side

The cascade effect is Sam fisher playing as the #1 defender, so losing run....and Sam is not the greatest one on one defender...Sam Gilbert takes Sam Fisher's spot, he is not as smart, not as effective by foot...then someone takes Gilbert's spot, on Friday it was Dempster/Goddard both suited better in other roles

[Old Mate]

The loss of Dawson does have a bigger impact than just him not in the side

The cascade effect is Sam fisher playing as the #1 defender, so losing run....and Sam is not the greatest one on one defender...Sam Gilbert takes Sam Fisher's spot, he is not as smart, not as effective by foot...then someone takes Gilbert's spot, on Friday it was Dempster/Goddard both suited better in other roles

How was Simpkin? If he plays his role and does it as effectively as Dawson then there isn't a cascade effect.

[BigMart]

I think simpkin is a real goer and can play

But he has just not got the size to play on power Fwds.....he will give up 2 or more inches and 10+ kegs ......

[BackFromUSA]

Answer

=> Kosi takes the resting ruckman / major Gorillas
=> Stanley rucks
=> McEvoy plays Kossies old role to make the forward aerial contest

[gringo]

How far off is jay lever? Does anyone have any steroids?

[SaintPav]

Answer

=> Kosi takes the resting ruckman / major Gorillas
=> Stanley rucks
=> McEvoy plays Kossies old role to make the forward aerial contest

That is being very optimistic IMO.

[BackFromUSA]

why optomistic

Kosi => competitive beast that will defend on slow moving gorillas / ruckmen

Stanley => great leap, athletic, needs space to make his pace a weapon

McEvoy => clunks marks but at worst makes contest for smaller players to swoop

[Spinner]

Answer

=> Kosi takes the resting ruckman / major Gorillas
=> Stanley rucks
=> McEvoy plays Kossies old role to make the forward aerial contest

That is being very optimistic IMO.

But this outlines how important Dawson was...

That strategy is reactive... We have to match up and take kosi where he is to atend the resting ruckman.

Before we were not reactive and could play our own game.

[bobmurray]

I think simpkin is a real goer and can play

But he has just not got the size to play on power Fwds.....he will give up 2 or more inches and 10+ kegs ......

I know how Simpkin feels....I've had to give up at least 2 inches all my life...

[SainterK]

You're all forgetting someone.

Anyhow.

Once the season clicks in, it's about the teammates buying in, the defence working hard for one another.

Type Dawson into AFLPHOTOS and you get mostly this kind of thing (click on the links and a photo should come up)

http://bit.ly/nQhCck

http://bit.ly/r1h8zK

http://bit.ly/rfv6kA

http://bit.ly/j7SrUz

http://bit.ly/i0NJrd

http://bit.ly/aP8lNI

http://bit.ly/aGTOzc

Our defence wasn't ever so much about the who, it was about the we.

[bobmurray]

You're all forgetting someone.

Anyhow.

Once the season clicks in, it's about the teammates buying in, the defence working hard for one another.

Type Dawson into AFLPHOTOS and you get mostly this kind of thing (click on the links and a photo should come up)

http://bit.ly/nQhCck

http://bit.ly/r1h8zK

http://bit.ly/rfv6kA

http://bit.ly/j7SrUz

http://bit.ly/i0NJrd

http://bit.ly/aP8lNI

http://bit.ly/aGTOzc

Our defence wasn't ever so much about the who, it was about the we.

it's still about the we......

We are not up to it in comparison to the top teams

[vacuous space]

Smaller key defenders aren't exactly new. Leo Barry, Craig Bolton, Ben Rutten, Darren Glass, Matthew Scarlett or, of course, Maxy Hudghton. They're all smaller than any of the giant FFs or resting ruckmen. Even Campbell Brown played some key defence for the Hawks. That's because most of the marks inside fifty are on the lead, not contested. Teams that bomb the ball get killed. The defender just has to bring the ball to ground, or lock up the forward so a rolling defender can float across. A lot harder to do on the lead.

Simpkin is a key defender. If he's not big enough to play, we should delist him. For what the position is today, I think he's big enough and should do just fine there. He obviously needs help with the monsters. Everyone does. There isn't an AA key defender in the last five years that didn't get help from teammates zoning off. Even Lake had Hargrave. If size won games, using rucks up forward would have been far more effective in recent years. 10-20cm is nothing when guys are dropping into the hole, creating packs and making life miserable for anybody in the forward fifty. That's what key defenders do. Simpkin will be fine as long as he has Fisher, Gilbert and Goddard in front of him.

(That goes for others too, but my feeling right now is Simpkin is the guy.)

[crippa2sipa]

Once the season clicks in, it's about the teammates buying in, the defence working hard for one another.

Type Dawson into AFLPHOTOS and you get mostly this kind of thing (click on the links and a photo should come up)

[groupie1]

I think simpkin is a real goer and can play

But he has just not got the size to play on power Fwds.....he will give up 2 or more inches and 10+ kegs ......

I don't disagree with you but we said the same thing about Max Hudghton, who saw out Shanahan, Gehrig, Penny, and not quite Dawson.

Simpkin reminds me a lot of Hudghton. There was a piece of play in his NAB Cup game where he dropped a mark, but then adeptly used his body to protect the ball on the ground, gather it and send it away nicely. Hudghton spent a career playing on blokes taller, bigger and stronger than him; yet he was rarely beaten and Lance Franklin regarded him as possibly the most difficult opponent. Good skills and a brain can overcome size disadvantage. Simpkin to me has been THE standout for us from the NAB Cup. He did a couple nice things and showed that he has the technical skills to hold down FB for a decade. I'd play him.

[groupie1]

Smaller key defenders aren't exactly new. Leo Barry, Craig Bolton, Ben Rutten, Darren Glass, Matthew Scarlett or, of course, Maxy Hudghton. They're all smaller than any of the giant FFs or resting ruckmen. Even Campbell Brown played some key defence for the Hawks. That's because most of the marks inside fifty are on the lead, not contested. Teams that bomb the ball get killed. The defender just has to bring the ball to ground, or lock up the forward so a rolling defender can float across. A lot harder to do on the lead.

Simpkin is a key defender. If he's not big enough to play, we should delist him. For what the position is today, I think he's big enough and should do just fine there. He obviously needs help with the monsters. Everyone does. There isn't an AA key defender in the last five years that didn't get help from teammates zoning off. Even Lake had Hargrave. If size won games, using rucks up forward would have been far more effective in recent years. 10-20cm is nothing when guys are dropping into the hole, creating packs and making life miserable for anybody in the forward fifty. That's what key defenders do. Simpkin will be fine as long as he has Fisher, Gilbert and Goddard in front of him.

(That goes for others too, but my feeling right now is Simpkin is the guy.)

great post. I shouldda read it before i posted.

[Con Gorozidis]

The loss of Dawson does have a bigger impact than just him not in the side

The cascade effect is Sam fisher playing as the #1 defender, so losing run....and Sam is not the greatest one on one defender...Sam Gilbert takes Sam Fisher's spot, he is not as smart, not as effective by foot...then someone takes Gilbert's spot, on Friday it was Dempster/Goddard both suited better in other roles

How was Simpkin? If he plays his role and does it as effectively as Dawson then there isn't a cascade effect.

i rate simpkin highly and believe he will make a good player. but he needs 5kg of strength and muscle added which is a year away.

were in all sorts v the tall guys this year. we need just try and win the midfield battles.

[groupie1]

Really. I think a backline of Simpkin, Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt from mid year, Blake and Wilkes as back-up looks perfectly capable.

[plugger66]

why optomistic

Kosi => competitive beast that will defend on slow moving gorillas / ruckmen

Stanley => great leap, athletic, needs space to make his pace a weapon

McEvoy => clunks marks but at worst makes contest for smaller players to swoop

By doing that you are puting 3 players in worse positions than they play already. Kosi cannot play back. Stanley couldnt ruck for most of the game and Ben isnt really a marking forward. We need to just work something out with our backmen we currently have.

[BigMart]

Not sure you have looked closely at

Ben Rutten 192cm 100kg
Darren Glass 192cm 98 kg
Matthew Scarlett 193cm 96kg

Craig Bolton and Leo Barry were good defenders at Sydney, but we're helped by Sydney's slow game style....the original Ross Lyon game plan. Having said that, we secured three close wins against Sydney where nick Riewoldt was the difference.

Dale Morris is similar, a great defender.....but the amount of times I have seen Nick towell him up and cause the dogs a nightmare.....Morris was perfect for Miley, but had to stand rooey.

Hawthorns weak defense was highlighted by Brown playing as a key back.....often costing them games in 2009/2010 after croad was finished.

Hudghton was a special case....a freak defender due to his PACE and determination. Max stood Nietz, Richo, Tredrea, Lloyd with varying results...often good, but they did get him a few times, because he gave away so much size...and if the ball was coming in well, he was stuffed.
Max was ideally suited to the Leading Fwds like Fev, who struggled to get a kick on him...and when we had bigger defenders like wakelin, shanahan, penny, Gehrig, Dawson.....they were preferred

[BigMart]

Not sure you have looked closely at

Ben Rutten 192cm 100kg
Darren Glass 192cm 98 kg
Matthew Scarlett 193cm 96kg

Craig Bolton and Leo Barry were good defenders at Sydney, but we're helped by Sydney's slow game style....the original Ross Lyon game plan. Having said that, we secured three close wins against Sydney where nick Riewoldt was the difference.

Dale Morris is similar, a great defender.....but the amount of times I have seen Nick towell him up and cause the dogs a nightmare.....Morris was perfect for Miley, but had to stand rooey.

Hawthorns weak defense was highlighted by Brown playing as a key back.....often costing them games in 2009/2010 after croad was finished.

Hudghton was a special case....a freak defender due to his PACE and determination. Max stood Nietz, Richo, Tredrea, Lloyd with varying results...often good, but they did get him a few times, because he gave away so much size...and if the ball was coming in well, he was stuffed.
Max was ideally suited to the Leading Fwds like Fev, who struggled to get a kick on him...and when we had bigger defenders like wakelin, shanahan, penny, Gehrig, Dawson.....they were preferred

[joffaboy]

Really. I think a backline of Simpkin, Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt from mid year, Blake and Wilkes as back-up looks perfectly capable.

Dont think so. It was worrying against WCE how their big men made our defence look like pygmies.

Apparently Dawes and Cloke did the same.

Our defence was structured for the Lyon game plan. Without the squeez e, and with the ball coming in quickly to big men v Simkin, Blake etc, we are vunerable and will struggle.

Not optimistic about our defence holding up.