Ruckmen - what we have learnt form the drafts
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- Con Gorozidis
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Ruckmen - what we have learnt form the drafts
Well it seems our coaching staff have serious faith in Kosi and Stanley to play in the ruck during 2012.
The focus on medium fwds - shows a combo of where they think the game is heading and what they think of our current list.
So Kosi will be definitely playing Ruck - and they obviously all think Stanley is AFL standard.
The focus on medium fwds - shows a combo of where they think the game is heading and what they think of our current list.
So Kosi will be definitely playing Ruck - and they obviously all think Stanley is AFL standard.
- Con Gorozidis
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i genuinely dont understand what you mean here?dragit wrote:I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?
Didnt I say that they DO think Stanley is AFL standard?
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Tue 13 Dec 2011 4:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Junction Oval
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We have gone down the path of going for skilful, versatile players. Looking at Geelong and Collingwood, positions 16-22 have often been filled by the likes of Sidebottom, Beams, Blair, Krakouer (COLL) or Byrnes, Stokes, Menzel, Varcoe (GEEL).
Small-medium goal-kickers who can rotate through the forward line rather than just play one role and can be dangerous in their own right. It's about finding an upgrade on Gram, Armitage, Gamble, Ray, Peake. Not necessarily easy, but that is the direction it would seem.
Small-medium goal-kickers who can rotate through the forward line rather than just play one role and can be dangerous in their own right. It's about finding an upgrade on Gram, Armitage, Gamble, Ray, Peake. Not necessarily easy, but that is the direction it would seem.
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
well.....and it's early days ....the players drafted in the main are good sized, speedy, can take a mark with some of them being regarded by their former coaches as being exceptional to very good kicks.....makes a change from the past few years....
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.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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I'm sure we talked up Heyne. And Smith. And Cahill. And Willy Jay. And Hutchings.stinger wrote:well.....and it's early days ....the players drafted in the main are good sized, speedy, can take a mark with some of them being regarded by their former coaches as being exceptional to very good kicks.....makes a change from the past few years....![]()
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
- mad saint guy
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I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
- Junction Oval
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It is a bit of a concern. But we should remember that the game has changed significantly in two years. Each team really only needs 1.5 ruckmen in their 22 now because of the sub rule.mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
Takes me back to when we had Capuano & we elected to sack him because the shorter Matt Maguire & Jason Blake actually had more influence than him.
No point picking talls for the sake of it. If they have no ability - you've just got a tall, useless lug on your list.
I'd rather have more capable players....later on if you have too many similar sized capable players - you trade for a decent tall or different type come that time of year.
No point picking talls for the sake of it. If they have no ability - you've just got a tall, useless lug on your list.
I'd rather have more capable players....later on if you have too many similar sized capable players - you trade for a decent tall or different type come that time of year.
- borderbarry
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- Con Gorozidis
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i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
- dragit
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I wasn't having a go, just saying that he wouldn't remain on the list if they didn't think he was going to be AFL level… make or break for him this year probably.Con Gorozidis wrote:i genuinely dont understand what you mean here?dragit wrote:I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?
Didnt I say that they DO think Stanley is AFL standard?
FWIW - I reckon there would have been an absolute outcry if we'd picked up pattison again, what have we got - McEvoy, Kosi, Stanley, Blake & Lever who could play there?
Is Blake really 189? If so there are 14 other blokes taller than him on our list…
We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
no...heyne yes.....the rest were all long shots to make it.....did hutchings get picked up this year..???...had a few good games in the west according to loris...never given a sniff even by a former coach who shall remain nameless....dcstkfc wrote:I'm sure we talked up Heyne. And Smith. And Cahill. And Willy Jay. And Hutchings.stinger wrote:well.....and it's early days ....the players drafted in the main are good sized, speedy, can take a mark with some of them being regarded by their former coaches as being exceptional to very good kicks.....makes a change from the past few years....![]()
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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yeah, pattison as well as mccauly.Junction Oval wrote:We definitely need the forwards that they have picked up, but a back-up ruckman would have been nice insurance.
It is interesting that Hawthorn thought it appropriate to pick up ex Saint/Tiger, Pattison.
however they did have roughy rucking last year (before he went down)...
- Con Gorozidis
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yep agree.dragit wrote:I wasn't having a go, just saying that he wouldn't remain on the list if they didn't think he was going to be AFL level… make or break for him this year probably.Con Gorozidis wrote:i genuinely dont understand what you mean here?dragit wrote:I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?
Didnt I say that they DO think Stanley is AFL standard?
FWIW - I reckon there would have been an absolute outcry if we'd picked up pattison again, what have we got - McEvoy, Kosi, Stanley, Blake & Lever who could play there?
Is Blake really 189? If so there are 14 other blokes taller than him on our list…
cant believe blake is 189cm. thats like lenny height.
- Spinner
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plugger66 wrote:We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.
Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.
Wilkes to play forward.
Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.
Correct weight.Spinner wrote:plugger66 wrote:We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.
Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.
Wilkes to play forward.
Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.
It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?
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If McEvoy and Kossie are injured and we have no big body to at least contest then we will get slaughtered.savatage wrote:Correct weight.Spinner wrote:plugger66 wrote:We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.
Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.
Wilkes to play forward.
Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.
It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?
Stanley and Blake - if I was an opposing ruckman I would be giggling.
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- Spinner
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savatage wrote:Correct weight.Spinner wrote:plugger66 wrote:We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.
Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.
Wilkes to play forward.
Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.
It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?
How many ruckmen get drafted in the top ten every year. How many develop into decent ruckmen.... How many take 6-8 years to begin to win their position.
Ruck is a tough position and IMO the most influential on the ground. Dominate, and you significantly improve any midfield - Get destroyed and you significantly limit any midfield.
McIntosh, Gardiner, Fraser, Ryder... All have taken years to begin winning their position. All top tens.
Angwin, Patterson, Brooks all first rounders and all duds.
My strategy would be, get the first rounder you would draft a kid ruckman with, and couple that with whatever - And trade for an established proven, dominent ruckman.
Its price effective.
Pattison is an undersized ruckman - Daniel Archer would be just as effective - so I can't see a major difference if that occurs.Gershwin wrote:If McEvoy and Kossie are injured and we have no big body to at least contest then we will get slaughtered.savatage wrote:Correct weight.Spinner wrote:plugger66 wrote:We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.
Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.
Wilkes to play forward.
Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.
It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?
Stanley and Blake - if I was an opposing ruckman I would be giggling.
Well yeah & with the amount of smalls we have - we may have a surplus that we can broker a deal with for a decent tall in the future anyway.Spinner wrote:savatage wrote:Correct weight.Spinner wrote:plugger66 wrote:We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.Con Gorozidis wrote:i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)mad saint guy wrote:I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.
We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.
Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.
Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.
Wilkes to play forward.
Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.
It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?
How many ruckmen get drafted in the top ten every year. How many develop into decent ruckmen.... How many take 6-8 years to begin to win their position.
Ruck is a tough position and IMO the most influential on the ground. Dominate, and you significantly improve any midfield - Get destroyed and you significantly limit any midfield.
McIntosh, Gardiner, Fraser, Ryder... All have taken years to begin winning their position. All top tens.
Angwin, Patterson, Brooks all first rounders and all duds.
My strategy would be, get the first rounder you would draft a kid ruckman with, and couple that with whatever - And trade for an established proven, dominent ruckman.
Its price effective.