Can we Improve??

[BigMart]

On last year.....judging on their 2011 outputs can the following get better??

1 - Gram.....probably
2 - Siposs....Yes
3 - Steven....Yes
4 - Jones......No
5 - McEvoy....Yes
6 - Dawson....No...if he goes, a loss
7 - Hayes......Yes
8 - Clarke.....Not so sure
9 - Crocker.....yes, but wont effect seniors
10 - Baker...Gone....wont lose a lot from 2011
11 - Montaga....yes, was down in 2011
12 - Riewoldt...Yes, if his career isnt dying and can find touch...look out for another tilt
13 - Schnieder...probably not, was OK in 2011
14 - Geary.....Yes, broken leg in 2011
15 - Gardiner....Gone...so NO, but like Baker wont make a difference
16 - Gamble.....Gone...wnont lose much on 2011 output
17 - Winmar....Yes
18 - Goddard....without doubt
19 - Gilbert......yes, when comparing 2009/10 with 2011
20 - Arimtage....yes, only 23 and more opportunity
21 - Heyne...Gone, lose nothing
22 - Ray....should play better in 2012, see gilbert
23 - Kosi.....Yes, no pre-season in 2011, had to play catch up and struggled initially
24 - Dempster...No
25 - Fisher.......No
26 - Dal Santo....No
27 - Yes and No.....if Zac leaves...he will have a better 2012..if not he is surplus and struggles without a role
28 - Stanley....Yes, would not be difficult
29 - Lynch...Gone, pit as he would have improved, but on last year uotput we dont lose much in the seniors
30 - Peake....No, I would expect him to decline a bit
31 - Simpkin.....Yes, big opportunities await him
32 - McQualter.....Gone...se Baker/Gamble
33 - Gwilt....Not really...he cant improve much on his output whist playing, and he is coming of a knee...but he did miss 7 games, so we dont lose much (net) if he plays half a season
34 - Polo.....No
35 - Cripps...Yes....I would expect Cripps to play more seniors
36 - Walsh....Gone, pity..see Lynch...but he is a bigger loss
37 - Ledger.....Yes, see Cripps
38 - Johnson....Gone....we dont lose much
39 - Smith.......Gone.....we dont lose anything
40 - Eddy........Gone...as above
41 - Cahill.......Gone....as above
42 - Archer....Yes, can improve and needs to for depth
43 - Curran.....Yes, see Crocker
44 - Milne.....No
45 - Ferguson......Yes, and very important he does
46 - Andreoli...Yes, see Crocker

A lot of players have improvement in them, which can add to the senior and reserves team based on last years output...however some will naturally decline..
the three biggest factors on us really improving (outside the coaching change) are
Whether or not Riewoldt and Goddard (our two most influential players) can recapture their best
Whether Lenny (third) can comeback successfully
The amount of improvement of our lesser experienced kids and the impact they can have on the senior team
Siposs (5), Stanley (9), Ledger (2), Cripps (5), Winmar (1), Simpkin (1) Saad (0) and maybe a kid or two from this ND

Our depth is a worry and losing Zac would strain that (KPP) but having said that, we have really only lost players that had NO impact in 2011 (Zac aside, and opinions of him are divided)
Heyne, Smith, Eddy, Cahill, Walsh never played a game...
Johnson, Baker, Gardiner, Walsh, Gamble only a handful...

So in my mind....if the list is healthy in Feb....we should be in better shape for 2012....where we finished 6th...
and thats not taking into account off field rubbish

B: GWILT (SIMPKIN) -- BLAKE -- DEMPSTER

HB: GILBERT -- FISHER -- GRAM

C: GODDARD -- HAYES -- MONTAGNA

HF: SCHNIEDER -- RIEWOLDT -- SIPOSS

F: MILNE -- KOSCHITZKE -- STANLEY

Foll: McEVOY -- DAL SANTO -- JONES

Int: STEVEN -- ARMITAGE -- PEAKE -- LEDGER

RES: RAY, CRIPPS, CLARKE, SAAD, GEARY, WINMAR, ARCHER, ND Picks, Mature age Pick

DEV: CROCKER, ANDREOLI, CURRAN, MILERA, ND Picks, Rookies

[clarky449]

That team you have will never be a premiership team infact i dont even reckon it would be top 8.

[Kilda]

That team you have will never be a premiership team infact i dont even reckon it would be top 8.

Agreed.

You need to have Milera and/or Saad in the side and as for Blake at FB, well that spells real trouble.

[BigMart]

Please do elaborate....

A very similar team finshed 2nd, 2nd, 6th and I clearly pointed out that two thirds of the team can markedly improve on 2011....and reasons why

including the best three players...

Keep that team (best 28) fit and Healthy....it will finish top 4...without doubt...

Injuries halt any team.....

but your kidding yourself if you dont think that is amongst the best teams in the AFL on paper..... and one of the few team to concern the big three

[BigMart]

Blake is an honest defender, who has beaten several good fwds in the last 4 years......experienced, strong, good leap.... the concern would be over his speed....that can be countered by smart play...

Saad will get his chance....but do remember, he has come from a good season with the northern bullants...not North Melbourne.....and the other played SANFL reserves at times last season....he is a fair way back

Saad and Milera are a long way off Schnieder and Milne.....and have big boots to fill when they go.....definitely wont oust them

[Con Gorozidis]

Blake is an honest defender, who has beaten several good fwds in the last 4 years......experienced, strong, good leap.... the concern would be over his speed....that can be countered by smart play...

Saad will get his chance....but do remember, he has come from a good season with the northern bullants...not North Melbourne.....and the other played SANFL reserves at times last season....he is a fair way back

Saad and Milera are a long way off Schnieder and Milne.....and have big boots to fill when they go.....definitely wont oust them

Blake would have 14 kicked on him if left one out with Buddy/Cloke etc.

[james rose]

Blake is an honest defender, who has beaten several good fwds in the last 4 years......experienced, strong, good leap.... the concern would be over his speed....that can be countered by smart play...

Saad will get his chance....but do remember, he has come from a good season with the northern bullants...not North Melbourne.....and the other played SANFL reserves at times last season....he is a fair way back

Saad and Milera are a long way off Schnieder and Milne.....and have big boots to fill when they go.....definitely wont oust them

Blake would have 14 kicked on him if left one out with Buddy/Cloke etc.

How often is a defender one out these days?

[borderbarry]

The team will improve greatly just by having Number 7 back on the field. That is enough for us to make top 4 never mind anything else.

[St Chris]

On last year.....judging on their 2011 outputs can the following get better??

1 - Gram - maybe, greater effort will bring improvement and consistency
2 - Siposs - yes, stronger body, bigger tank, expect 10 games + in the seniors
3 - Steven - maybe, made huge strides in '11, will become a super player if that improvement comes again
4 - Jones - No, 1 dimensional "project player" will struggle for games if Dempster continues '11 form
5 - McEvoy - yes, must improve ruckwork in the centre square, and have "Goldstein" like impact on entirety of matches
6 -
7 - Hayes - No, we know what to expect and what we will get from the aging champ, hope 2012 isnt his last year but might be.
8 - Clarke - maybe, like Gram, consistency through effort will mean improvement
9 - Crocker - yes, tank and body improvement will lead to opportunities if his ball-use is what it's cracked up to be.
10 -
11 - Montagna - No, 28 now, probably peaked in running role, smart ball use will become important as his body starts to slow in next few years
12 - Riewoldt - maybe, if injury/s sustained linger, or if trends in gameplans continue to conspire against him, then he needs to reinvent himself where we can utilise his strengths
13 - Schnieder - No, the perennial "move me into midfield" player needs to give up on that dream, oand concentrate on kicking goals
14 - Geary - No, has always and will always be a GOP, poor skills are made up for with plenty of ticker. Hopefully will sit outside our best 22, but we know he will give great contest when required to play
15 -
16 -
17 - Winmar - Yes, need a mans body though, hopefully his taste in '11 will propel him onto bigger and better things/weights
18 - Goddard - No, football world needs to stop expecting the finals form from 2010 every week from BJ. Contract issues will dog his year.
19 - Gilbert - Yes, needs a good start to the year, from there the momentum should keep his confidence up.
20 - Armitage - maybe, needs to play through the middle though, will come under pressure from younger guys who use the footy better.
21 -
22 - Ray - maybe, was only OK in '11, good enough player to play 22 games though, needs to have more impact over 100 minutes
23 - Kosi - maybe, will benefit greatly from better ball movement and faster transition, but has been worked out by the opposition. One guy who will be looking forward to pre-season, after last years disastrous first half of the year.
24 - Dempster - maybe, became the best stopper in the side in '11, but needs to be more effective going the other way. Skill level will see him sit above CJ if he can recapture his stopping form. May return to the back 6 if Dawson's absense cannot be filled by Simpkin etc.
25 - Fisher - Yes, had a super year, nut improvement will come if the midfield experiment is expanded this season, will require huge pre-season to become a regular in the middle.
26 - Dal Santo - No, excelled in Hayes's absence, incredible season considering how the off-season shenanigans impacted others, no reason 2012 wont be the same, but cant see how it could be better. Happy to be proven wrong.
27 - Blake - No, ultimate team man, can play a range of roles. but hopefully will not be required for 22 games next term.
28 - Stanley - Yes, needs to because he is probably the one guy on the list who has the word "potential" hanging over his head the most. Need to take more contested marks and show greater effort, but the world is now his oyster under the new regime. Time will tell if he's going to make pearls or not.
29 -
30 - Peake - No, played best year of his career in '11, must try to match that to extend his career, with pacey kids with better skills coming soon.
31 - Simpkin - Yes, emphatically. Club would be happy with the former rookie. Good competitor, reasonable athlete, will improve with experience at highest level. Heir apparent to the full back throne, but will have to earn the spot over summer.
32 -
33 - Gwilt - maybe, should be back after a couple of months in 2012 season, will find his rangy foot skills and good distribution in time, knee injury only did ACL, so shouldn't be restricted on return.
34 - Polo - No, another GOP with definite restrictions, but will continue to play solid footy at Sandy and put pressure on inside mids in the senior side
35 - Cripps - Yes, highly touted by previous regime, will need to prove himself again, but will develop over summer. Will still be a boy in 2012 season, his time as a regular senior player will come in the future.
36 -
37 - Ledger - Yes, better body for AFL that some of 2010's draftee's, after impressive first season will press for senior selection early on. Must get hamstrings right though.
38 -
39 -
40 -
41 -
42 - Archer - Yes, direct opposite of Stanley, not naturally gifted, but a real workhorse. Rewarded for last summer with debut against Tigers, but not spotted again, needs to maintain workrate this season, and things may just come together.
43 - Curran - Yes, project mid, who originally seemed to be making up numbers on rookie list, but looked to work extremely hard for his spot. Will work his trade in Sandy senior team again in 2012
44 - Milne - No, as time winds down on one of the Saints best forwards ever, he needs to now impart his knowledge around goals to his protege, Saad.
45 - Ferguson - Yes, still too raw to be considered a walk up start for Dawson's spot in the back six, needs to play week after week in VFL. Has talent, but lock down key backman is not where his future lies, he will become next rebounding backman in the Fisher/Gwilt/Gilbert mould
46 - Andreoli - Yes, will probably be retained, but needs to push himself into the senior side at Sandy regularly to keep a spot in 2013. Wont come into senior calculations this season.

I'd expect our best senior side to look something like:

B: Dempster, Simpkin, Gilbert
HB: Gwilt, Fisher, Goddard
C: Montagna, Hayes, Peake
HF: Siposs, Reiwoldt, Schneider
F: Milne, Kosi, Saad
Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Armitage
Int: Ray, Clarke, Gram, Steven
Emerg: Ledger, Cripps, Jones, Blake

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I actually could see Gram slipping further ... His name was tossed around a lot in trade week so that might have a negative impact on him

[SaintPav]

That team you have will never be a premiership team infact i dont even reckon it would be top 8.

I just love your positivity. Love it.

[BigMart]

Goddard and Montagna were all australians in 2009/2010...

Firstly
Goddard did a little better than have a good 2010 finals series....he has been outstanding since 2008.....his form dipped in 2011.....he will go to even greater heights in 2012 IMO and be one of the most influential players in the AFL....he is simply too good not to

Montagna is 28, not 38.....his output decreased in 2011 because tags went to him and BJ not Dal santo/Hayes....

His running will be the same....why would it be any different???

Both of there form dipped.....no reason why they cannot return to form...

[BigMart]

Geary had a broken leg last year and missed three months......surely his output will be better in 2012....

[gringo]

I'm actually going to say that polo might be a bolter next season. Second year in should know his team mates and earned his place in the team. I can see him doing a Dempster next year.

[whiskers3614]

The fact that people are naming Saad as the "great white hope" and that the "get Fev" threads continue tells me that we are in a very deep hole list-wise(thanks to you know who).Whilst always hoping for the best we should perhaps lower our expectations somewhat and let the guys surprise us.

[saintly]

what will improve the players especially the younger players is the academny. just think about a dedicated team of coaches teaching and developing the kids by hthem being part of the VFL team and being part of the saints.

[saintly]

what will improve the players especially the younger players is the academy. Just think about a dedicated team of coaches teaching and developing the kids by hthem being part of the VFL team and being part of the saints.

[Dr Spaceman]

what will improve the players especially the younger players is the academny. just think about a dedicated team of coaches teaching and developing the kids by hthem being part of the VFL team and being part of the saints.

Plus the realistic prospect of senior games if they show they're up to it.

No longer will young Saints players have to feel like Shield cricketers without the letters N.S.W. contained somewhere in their bios.

[hungry for a premiership]

Another highly significant factor that will see us improve in 2012 is our draw.


We had an absolute horror draw in the first half of the year, then it eased up a bit, then got hard again at the end.

Next season, we've got a fantastic first 5 games (never, ever underestimate the power of a good start,) and really we've only got one little hard patch towards the end of the season. This will be hugely significant.

On top of that we've got Lenny back, and yes, him alone, just his presence, will increase our power by around 10%.

Add to that a team with a core of A-grade champs who are in their prime, have shed the demons of the past and are playing with renewed vigor under a coach who actually lets them enjoy their footy and is regenerating with youth.

AND also, the ORACLE has informed me that BRENDON GODDARD WILL WIN THE BROWNLOW IN 2012.

[saintly]

what will improve the players especially the younger players is the academny. just think about a dedicated team of coaches teaching and developing the kids by hthem being part of the VFL team and being part of the saints.

Plus the realistic prospect of senior games if they show they're up to it.

No longer will young Saints players have to feel like Shield cricketers without the letters N.S.W. contained somewhere in their bios.

until watters and his band of merry men came along, i was very much on th egloomy side .

but with Watters, new assitant coaches, academy, th epromise that if players work hard they will be given opportunies in the seniors i am felling more confident. not the confidence of winning 17 games in a row. but the confidence of being competitive in the face of a new team, new structure, new coaches, and new ideas.

[To the top]

If we are relying on Geary we are in BIG, BIG trouble.

[savatage]

Our much better integration with Sandringham will also benefit both clubs!

[bobmurray]

B: GWILT (SIMPKIN) -- BLAKE -- DEMPSTER

HB: GILBERT -- FISHER -- GRAM

C: GODDARD -- HAYES -- MONTAGNA

HF: SCHNIEDER -- RIEWOLDT -- SIPOSS

F: MILNE -- KOSCHITZKE -- STANLEY

Foll: McEVOY -- DAL SANTO -- JONES

Int: STEVEN -- ARMITAGE -- PEAKE -- LEDGER

RES: RAY, CRIPPS, CLARKE, SAAD, GEARY, WINMAR, ARCHER, ND Picks, Mature age Pick

DEV: CROCKER, ANDREOLI, CURRAN, MILERA, ND Picks, Rookies

Too much like the teams that haven't been good enough...i hope the 2012 is a bit different to that one, unless we are happy to miss out again....

[BigMart]

Why throw the baby out with the bath water...

The team was not good enough by a few goals in 2009/2010....last year it was out by 6-8 goals for well known reason....therefore it needs to reboot and tweek....not re-invent....do that and we are back with Rich/Nth/Melb

Look what Geelong and Hawthorn have done in 2011.....they did NOT panic with there team.....they tweeked them....added some extra dimensions....

Collingwood were 8 goals better than Geelong in 2010.....with Ablett

was it Mitch Duncan/Trent West/Allen Christianson.......NO

It was the opportunities and faith given by Scott to the players above combined with persistance with Varcoe, Hawkins, Mackie, Lonergan....and not trying to invent a new finals side...but improve a current finals side

Mooney and Millburn would have played in the GF at the expense of Hawkins and Duncan (to their detriment) if Ross was coaching them

[borderbarry]

I would not be surprised if Archer doesnt end up in the best 22. Just cant work out his best position though.