Let's bust two myths right now...

[philtee]

First, Arizona. PFFFFT! If the altitude training there is that good, how come it was the Pies that ran out of legs
in the last qtr of the GF, while the Cats remained frisky despite barely leaving sea level.

Second...the Cats being labelled "the greatest team of all" for winning three flags in five years. PFFFT! That '09 flag
was won by Tom Hawkins' goal that wasn't...he's admitted it. But the fairytale of prolonged Cat success has seduced
too many footy journos in the last few days...they're much happier priniting the legend.

[BigMart]

Arizona training has very little benefit from a high altitude perspective....

Geelong are great...

But behind

Melbourne....late 50's
Collingwood....late 20's
Hawthorn......80's
Brisbane........early 2000's

[noreason41]

First, Arizona. PFFFFT! If the altitude training there is that good, how come it was the Pies that ran out of legs
in the last qtr of the GF, while the Cats remained frisky despite barely leaving sea level.

Second...the Cats being labelled "the greatest team of all" for winning three flags in five years. PFFFT! That '09 flag
was won by Tom Hawkins' goal that wasn't...he's admitted it. But the fairytale of prolonged Cat success has seduced
too many footy journos in the last few days...they're much happier priniting the legend.

Cats have won something like 110/125 games.

They are one of the greatest teams of all time.

[VietNam_Saint]

Tommohawks "goal" was a fair evener on the day ,,

[kosifantutti23]

If Nathan Brown didn't go to Arizona he would not have reinjured his knee and he may have been OK to play instead of Reid.

[matrix]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

[Dr Spaceman]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Correct.

Hawkins shot was in the 2nd quarter. The only real time it can make a difference is when scores are tight at the end of a game.

And people have to understand that if the correct decision had been made, everything that happened after the goal was awarded would have been different. The ball would have been kicked out rather than taken back to the centre and bounced. Every passage of play would have been different to what we witnessed on that day. Even if the end result had've been Geelong by 4 points you can't simply deduct 5 points from their score. The Saints may have won but similarly Geelong may have won by an even bigger margin.

[plugger66]

First, Arizona. PFFFFT! If the altitude training there is that good, how come it was the Pies that ran out of legs
in the last qtr of the GF, while the Cats remained frisky despite barely leaving sea level.

Second...the Cats being labelled "the greatest team of all" for winning three flags in five years. PFFFT! That '09 flag
was won by Tom Hawkins' goal that wasn't...he's admitted it. But the fairytale of prolonged Cat success has seduced
too many footy journos in the last few days...they're much happier priniting the legend.

I am unsure any of those myths are busted. The pies were beaten because their game plan has been worked out not because the trip to Arizona does or does not help. Geelong have probably won more games in 5 years than any other club. If it helps you I will ask mythbusters to do a special show on both teams.

[matrix]

Arizona Highest Point Humphreys Peak.....12,633 ft.

Mount Cook in New Zealand..... 12,316 ft.


never knew why you would fly half way round the world
maybe they have some sports clinic over there in Arizona as well, where as Cook in NZ is prob just a mountain in its lonesome.

[saintspremiers]

Arizona Highest Point Humphreys Peak.....12,633 ft.

Mount Cook in New Zealand..... 12,316 ft.


never knew why you would fly half way round the world
maybe they have some sports clinic over there in Arizona as well, where as Cook in NZ is prob just a mountain in its lonesome.

Prob also because Eddie is a wanker and could then big note himself on MMM's Cold Pie Breakfast show.

[Johnny Member]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Would have made Rooke's shot after the siren a bit more interesting though!

[matrix]

there must be some kind of elite training facility there as well to travel half way around the globe instead of heading to NZ

[matrix]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Would have made Rooke's shot after the siren a bit more interesting though!

maybe
maybe not

would he even have had that shot??

see the Dr's post

[plugger66]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Would have made Rooke's shot after the siren a bit more interesting though!

As people have said after that point, goal anything could have happened but if all scores stayed the same and Geelong got the point instead of the goal Rookes shot would have still meant nothing as they would have won regardless.

[stanthecaddy]

there must be some kind of elite training facility there as well to travel half way around the globe instead of heading to NZ

Correct. It's not just altitude, they go to a university that features Olympic-caliber (in both size and quality) training facilities at altitude. This makes it worth the investment to take players overseas.

[matrix]

cheers.
knew there would be a reason
if i had googled for another 5 mins i prob wouldve found something.




didnt help swan on saturday

[saintbrat]

cheers.
knew there would be a reason
if i had googled for another 5 mins i prob wouldve found something.




didnt help swan on saturday

or Nicks knuckle

winning % over last 6 yr
Cats 78%
Pies 68%
Saints 62%
Hawks 58%
Swans 53%
Eagles 48%

[markp]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Disagree, we were broken by the second to last goal and players knew there were only seconds to go and it was all over... and did anyone even stand on the mark/goal line, or was any pressure on the kick?... also IIRC after the goal that wasn't the ball went back to the centre and they scored another from the centre clearance?

[Johnny Member]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Would have made Rooke's shot after the siren a bit more interesting though!

maybe
maybe not

would he even have had that shot??

see the Dr's post

I agree.

And that's why I don't buy the 'but they won by 2 goals anyway so it doesn't matter'. It's far from being that simple.


I mean f***, a free goal in a Grand Final, when we're well on top and they're only in the game due to us missing goals and them being freakishly accurate - is like deadset gold.
A free goal when only 7 more are kicked for the entire game! Jesus.

I know it's history, and there's really no point in even talking about it - but that goal gifted to Hawkins, and the 'non-free to Milne that ended up being paid to Ablett then him given 50m' were the two most influential umpiring f*** ups in the history of the sport.

Absolutely critical. And both a result of sheer incompetence and mental weakness by the umpires.

[borderbarry]

If that goal had of been paid a behind as it should have been, then that is what Geelong would have won by. 1 point.

[maverick]

the point goal means nothing
we lost by two goals

Disagree, we were broken by the second to last goal and players knew there were only seconds to go and it was all over... and did anyone even stand on the mark/goal line, or was any pressure on the kick?... also IIRC after the goal that wasn't the ball went back to the centre and they scored another from the centre clearance?

Correct weight, the sequence of two goals at that stage got them back into the game, I still believe they were shot until that moment.

Not that I have ever watched it back

[8856brother]

Yes they won by 2 goals. One that Hawkins smashed into the post and then one that was scored about 9 seconds after the centre bouce that resulted from the non goal. The whole situation gave them huge momentum. If the white maggot gets the first decision right, Dal has the ball in the goal square and we are 2 goals better off.
Did it lose us the premiership? Probably not. Did it shift momentum in an enormous way. Of course it did.

[Johnny Member]

Did it lose us the premiership? Probably not. Did it shift momentum in an enormous way. Of course it did.

My take...

Did it lose us the premiership? Probably did. Did it shift momentum in an enormous way. Of course it did. Is there any point me still being dirty about it? No. Am I still dirty about it? Sadly, yes!

[philtee]

My point about Geelong is that the '09 GF victory could have gone either way, and that Geelong were the recipient of the
more obvious and result-affecting lucky breaks...the Hawkins' "goal", the missed Schneider jumper-hold, the goal after the siren when the Saints
players were prostrate on the ground.
Claiming victory from the "rub of the green" is OK - winners are grinners -but that year the Saints were the Cats equal.

[markp]

Meh, it's a cruel game... and that's what you get for investing deep emotion in outcomes you have zero control over.

We lost, it's history... and it just means the greatest flag celebration of all time is still yet to come!