Win Loss Ratio and Ranking of Coaches

[samoht]

This fascination with coach's win loss ratios and drawing conclusions as to how the coaches rank is laughable.

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Players make coaches - our players were at their peak and RL wasted his opportunity and left us with recycled players (some who have retired) and minus another 6 good young players potentially.

anyone could have taken our list to a flag - RL didn't and we have his recycled players as a memento.

I rate him a 1/10 !!

[dragit]

anyone could have taken our list to a flag

A slight stretch

I rate him a 1/10 !!

You're a very hard marker, 2 GF's?

I do agree though that the WIN/LOSS ratio is more related to the list rather than the coach, Voss may become a good coach but his ratio will be forever trashed due to his current list and string of losses.

[plugger66]

This fascination with coach's win loss ratios and drawing conclusions as to how the coaches rank is laughable.

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Players make coaches - our players were at their peak and RL wasted his opportunity and left us with recycled players (some who have retired) and minus another 6 good young players potentially.

anyone could have taken our list to a flag - RL didn't and we have his recycled players as a memento.

I rate him a 1/10 !!

I rate this post nil and I am an easy task marker.

[bergholt]

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

might have? but not. he started with the pies in 2000 and made grand finals in 2002 and 2003.

[SaintPav]

This fascination with coach's win loss ratios and drawing conclusions as to how the coaches rank is laughable.

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Players make coaches - our players were at their peak and RL wasted his opportunity and left us with recycled players (some who have retired) and minus another 6 good young players potentially.

anyone could have taken our list to a flag - RL didn't and we have his recycled players as a memento.

I rate him a 1/10 !!

I rate this post nil and I am an easy task marker.

He was a terrible tactician as well becuase he didn't change Zac and Roo around often enough in a game.

[samoht]

anyone could have taken our list to a flag

A slight stretch

I rate him a 1/10 !!

You're a very hard marker, 2 GF's?

I do agree though that the WIN/LOSS ratio is more related to the list rather than the coach, Voss may become a good coach but his ratio will be forever trashed due to his current list and string of losses.

Yes 1/10 -
2 GF appearance (which wasn't such a big deal given our list at its peak) but also it came at a substantial cost to us now - losing Ball, not picking up someone like Burgoyne - opting for recycled battlers instead .. and let's not forget Lovett plus the youth we could have picked instead.

1/10 is a fair overall rating !

Thanks for the recycled memories !

[plugger66]

This fascination with coach's win loss ratios and drawing conclusions as to how the coaches rank is laughable.

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Players make coaches - our players were at their peak and RL wasted his opportunity and left us with recycled players (some who have retired) and minus another 6 good young players potentially.

anyone could have taken our list to a flag - RL didn't and we have his recycled players as a memento.

I rate him a 1/10 !!

I rate this post nil and I am an easy task marker.

He was a terrible tactician too becuase he didn't change Zac and Roo around often enough in a game.

See that to me is an obvious one. A great coach would have been able to use Milney as an attacking BP player and Baker as a goal kicking forward. one out 10 sounds about right. You know it makes sense.

[bergholt]

I do agree though that the WIN/LOSS ratio is more related to the list rather than the coach, Voss may become a good coach but his ratio will be forever trashed due to his current list and string of losses.

nah. mark thompson had seven pretty average years before four massively dominant ones and two flags. his win-loss record is just ahead of allan jeans and much better than anyone currently coaching - except lyon, of course.

[samoht]

Plus our forward pressure was lacking again this year - I put that down to poor coaching.

Collingwood laid 38 Forward 50 tackles in GF2 to our 11... so forward 50 tackling should have been prioritised... but we continued to underperform.


Not good enough RL ! .. 1/10 and thanks again for your recycled players and losing Ball who is playing good consistent football under a better coach.

[SaintPav]

This fascination with coach's win loss ratios and drawing conclusions as to how the coaches rank is laughable.

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Players make coaches - our players were at their peak and RL wasted his opportunity and left us with recycled players (some who have retired) and minus another 6 good young players potentially.

anyone could have taken our list to a flag - RL didn't and we have his recycled players as a memento.

I rate him a 1/10 !!

I rate this post nil and I am an easy task marker.

He was a terrible tactician too becuase he didn't change Zac and Roo around often enough in a game.

See that to me is an obvious one. A great coach would have been able to use Milney as an attacking BP player and Baker as a goal kicking forward. one out 10 sounds about right. You know it makes sense.

That's a top move. Lyon should have thought of that. He should have looked at all the positional changes that say, MM would make in a blink of an eye.

Sticking to a diciplined game plan is overrated. It will only ever win you 2 out of every three games. I hope our new coach is on to that.

[perfectionist]

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Year 1- 32%

Years 1&2 - 41%

Yeasr 1&2&3 - 48% (GF)

Years 1&2&3&4 - 53% (GF)

Now - 63%

So much for that theory.

[degruch]

This fascination with coach's win loss ratios and drawing conclusions as to how the coaches rank is laughable.

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Players make coaches - our players were at their peak and RL wasted his opportunity and left us with recycled players (some who have retired) and minus another 6 good young players potentially.

anyone could have taken our list to a flag - RL didn't and we have his recycled players as a memento.

I rate him a 1/10 !!

I rate this post nil and I am an easy task marker.

He was a terrible tactician too becuase he didn't change Zac and Roo around often enough in a game.

See that to me is an obvious one. A great coach would have been able to use Milney as an attacking BP player and Baker as a goal kicking forward. one out 10 sounds about right. You know it makes sense.

That's a top move. Lyon should have thought of that. He should have looked at all the positional changes that say, MM would make in a blink of an eye.

Sticking to a diciplined game plan is overrated. It will only ever win you 2 out of every three games. I hope our new coach is on to that.

Zac forward...again.

[samoht]

Okay perfectionist -
I exaggerated to clarify - but if you look at 2000, 2004 and 2005 ,, those 3 years MM's W/L ratio was around 35%.
Don't quote me ,, just going on memory !

MM this so called legendary coach lost 2/3 games !

His cattle was just grazing those years.

[samoht]

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Year 1- 32%

Years 1&2 - 41%

Yeasr 1&2&3 - 48% (GF)

Years 1&2&3&4 - 53% (GF)

Now - 63%

So much for that theory.

By the way ,.,
Are you saying that Collingwood in 2010 and 2011 isn't a more talented outfit or are you saying that MM is fianlly perfecting his coaching ?
Obviously ..
Players make coaches - FULL STOP NO ARGUMENT !

[plugger66]

What would MM's win/loss ratio have been in his first few years at Collingwood after winning the flag with West Coast ?
It might have been 20% or less !

Year 1- 32%

Years 1&2 - 41%

Yeasr 1&2&3 - 48% (GF)

Years 1&2&3&4 - 53% (GF)

Now - 63%

So much for that theory.

By the way ,.,
Are you saying that Collingwood in 2010 and 2011 isn't a more talented outfit or are you saying that MM is fianlly perfecting his coaching ?

Players make coaches - FULL STOP NO ARGUMENT !

When do you think the Saints had the best list man for man in the last 10 years.

[samoht]

We started 2010 (the season) as flag favourites... but RL fell short again.

[plugger66]

We started 2010 (the season) as flag favourites... but RL fell short again.

Not prepared to answer my question?

[samoht]

Well going by our favouritism in 2010 and our great showing in 2009 - I too would have thought around 2009 and 2010.
Collingwood improved their list more via their young players - whereas unfortunately we recruited recycled players thanks to RL.

[plugger66]

Well going by our favouritism in 2010 and our great showing in 2009 - I too would have thought around 2009 and 2010.

So man for man 2009 and 2010 was a better than 2004 and 2005. Well that is clearly a joke.

[samoht]

You are not recognising a mature side that was peaking.. 2004 we were too young but GT worked his miracle.

[dragit]

at the start of 2009 we were miles off favourites, not even saints fans would have picked us to get to the GF, let alone win 19 straight…

AFL Betting Odds Premiership 2009 - Early Bookmakers Markets

1/ Geelong - 3.35
2/ Hawthorn - 3.50
3/ Bulldogs - 14.00
4/ Collingwood - 15.50
5/ St Kilda - 16.00
6/ Carlton - 23.00
7/ Richmond - 34.00
8/ Fremantle - 38.00

[plugger66]

You are not recognising a mature side that was peaking.. 2004 we were too young but GT worked his miracle.

Sorry I also thought we had stars like Harvey, Hamill and G and then even the next grade down we had Jones, Black, Peckett, Penny, Powell, Thompson, Voss and Max. Souns a whole lot better than last year even with how young some were in 2004/5.

[samoht]

But Jones. Gilbert, Gwilt all improved in 2009.
They had great years.

Credit goes to them - not the coach who couldn't get the best out of Ball !

In 2010 our recycled players that RL recruited didn't help us or contribute further to our improvement - whereas Collingwood's youth policy paid off.

RL has to be marked down for this .. we are probably another couple of good young players short now due to RL.

[desertsaint]

look, i never liked lyon and obviously never will.
we knew he was stuffing the list in the near future but we also knew he turned the list that he had into a very competitive unit. very unlucky not to win two flags.
most of us thought it was worth the risk, and it was. for all i dislike him, i accepted that risk.
the sad part is our coach has cut and run when the lean years now appear before us. that suggests he lacks either any will to stay for the long length of time it will take to develop a new core, or that he simply didn't feel capable. or of course that money talks.
we have a shot in 2012, after that we are in real trouble unless we get the right people into the club.

[Scollop]

You are not recognising a mature side that was peaking.. 2004 we were too young but GT worked his miracle.

Sorry I also thought we had stars like Harvey, Hamill and G and then even the next grade down we had Jones, Black, Peckett, Penny, Powell, Thompson, Voss and Max. Souns a whole lot better than last year even with how young some were in 2004/5.

"Harvey, Hamill and G and then even the next grade down we had Jones, Black, Peckett, Penny, Powell, Thompson, Voss and Max." How many of these guys were top 5 or top 10 draft picks?

I think you'll find the '09/'10 class is jam packed - the blokes that made a commitment to each other, and sacraficed the extra $$$ on offer from rival clubs, for the chance to play in a premiership team and bleed for this footy club.

Let me just add that the leadership and character of Roo and Lenny and Bally ( even Dal and BJ and Chips who didn't get an opportunity to be captains under GT) were the perfect blokes to have as role models for all other players at the club during Lyon's tenure. These blokes were peaking and dragging the blokes underneath with them, and it was mainly due to these stars in our team and their efforts that this team achieved the results of '09/'10.