For many who want Michael Gardiner to play

[plugger66]

To those who have posted recently you will know that I think only one of MG or Ben can play and I think it should be Ben. My reason is that when they both played Saturday night our forward line just didnt function due to one of the ruckmen having to rest there quite often because of the new interchange rule. It allowed Carlton to control the ball in the backline and set up from there. They had the ball so much that they had 90 possessions more than us at half time as well as having 13 shots to our 7.

The Blues kicked the first goal of the third and then MG was subsituted. It could have been coincidence but all of a sudden we stopped their run out of the backline and even had more possessions than them by the end of the game which didnt look possible at half time.

I know Ray wasnt great when he came on but it did allow us to have a smaller forward line and it also allowed Kosi to go into the ruck for short periods and get into the game which he and Rooy didnt do in the first half. Also having Kosi, Rooy and one of the ruckman in the first hald didnt stop Carlton from getting 2 onto Rooy as i reckon they took the punt and thought our ruckmen wont be much of a danger in the forward line because they are to slow on the lead and players dont really take contested marks now.

Anyway after all my question to those who want both Ruckman to play is why will us as a team do better this week with both ruckman playing when we clearly struggled last week until one went off the ground.

[degruch]

Gardi can still play, and we can still have one ruck. We can also have a ruck sub, but we know the opposition will not, so best to have legs to match Sydney's.

[Old Mate]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

[plugger66]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

[Hurricane]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

Agree 100% with this.

The Swines are a much differant prospect than the Brown Baggers.

Gardi and Mac will tage team in the ruck, Kosi and Roo up foward and JB to take (no)Goodes

BANG BANG

[Old Mate]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

Kosi and Roo up forward with Milne, Schneider and Armo as per normal.

[plugger66]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

Kosi and Roo up forward with Milne, Schneider and Armo as per normal.

But you cant have the ruckman changing off the bench the whole game. That only leaves 2 other spots for all the rotations. Even last week they were only on the bench for short periods.

[degruch]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

Moreso the Blues than the Swans, I would have thought. The Swans rely on pressure at stoppages and clearances around the ground a lot more than the Blues, and have a very dominant in-form ruckman to assist there, who was almost the difference between the two teams last time. We can't go in with the same team, the same plan and expect a different result...Swans are playing with more confidence now than we we last played them.

[plugger66]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

Moreso the Blues than the Swans, I would have thought. The Swans rely on pressure at stoppages and clearances around the ground a lot more than the Blues, and have a very dominant in-form ruckman to assist there, who was almost the difference between the two teams last time. We can't go in with the same team, the same plan and expect a different result...Swans are playing with more confidence now than we we last played them.

I reckon it would be a lot different to last time even if MG didnt play. Zac and Kosi playing. Other players not having gastro. Our home ground under lights in perfect conditions compared to that crap ground away last time. Kosi can ruck this time. We had no one apart from Ben last time.
So I reckon there is a huge difference without trying to make us even slower than we normally are. And Armo will play and if it isnt MG dropped then it could easily be Geary. That makes us slower again.

[Old Mate]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

Kosi and Roo up forward with Milne, Schneider and Armo as per normal.

But you cant have the ruckman changing off the bench the whole game. That only leaves 2 other spots for all the rotations. Even last week they were only on the bench for short periods.

Saints flood back so you rarely see a congested forward line. Sure Mac and Gardy may rest forward (or back) but it doesn't mean we will always have Kosi, Roo and Mac or Gard in the forward 50 at the same time. Whilst Mac or Gard are resting deep forward Roo and / or Kosi will likely play further away from goal.

[degruch]

He should play.

I didn't agree with playing Gardiner and Mac against the Blues however the Swans are a different kettle of fish. They play tall so we can afford to play two ruckman as well as Kosi.

Mummy is a concern therefor Gardiner is a must. Mac to provide relief. Kosi if needed.

That again leaves a very slow forward line and that is where the Swans set up all their run from.

Moreso the Blues than the Swans, I would have thought. The Swans rely on pressure at stoppages and clearances around the ground a lot more than the Blues, and have a very dominant in-form ruckman to assist there, who was almost the difference between the two teams last time. We can't go in with the same team, the same plan and expect a different result...Swans are playing with more confidence now than we we last played them.

I reckon it would be a lot different to last time even if MG didnt play. Zac and Kosi playing. Other players not having gastro. Our home ground under lights in perfect conditions compared to that crap ground away last time. Kosi can ruck this time. We had no one apart from Ben last time.
So I reckon there is a huge difference without trying to make us even slower than we normally are. And Armo will play and if it isnt MG dropped then it could easily be Geary. That makes us slower again.

Very true...see, you do know something.

Yes, Armo will come in, I'd still be surprised to Gardi dropped...who comes out for Armo? Geary would lose us speed, Ray would lose us speed, I'd prefer Blake than Fisher on Goodes, but it may not happen...which leaves Blake and Zac '5th wheels' on the backline. However, we're unlikely to substitute a full back for a ruckman. Curious.

[prwilkinson]

I thought our use of the ball changed the game more than Gardi being subbed. Everytime we moved forward in the first half we just kicked the ball straight back to them without any real lowering of the eyes or kicks to advantage.

I thought Gardiner's game itself was fine. He'll play against Sydney, we'll work over Mummy BIG time.... But yeah... it is tough to carry so many talls these days.

[SaintPav]

I have to agree with Plugger on this. Ross is taing a big risk if he decides to go this way and it could leave us exposed. If Mumford smashes Gardey, we will be in big trouble.

[Old Mate]

I thought our use of the ball changed the game more than Gardi being subbed. Everytime we moved forward in the first half we just kicked the ball straight back to them without any real lowering of the eyes or kicks to advantage.

I thought Gardiner's game itself was fine. He'll play against Sydney, we'll work over Mummy BIG time.... But yeah... it is tough to carry so many talls these days.

To me our back line is out of whack. We have 2 tall forwards in Roo and kosi, 2 rucks in Mac and Gardiner and 4 tall backs in Gilbert, Fisher, Blake and Dawson. Gilbert and Fisher can play on mediums or in different positions however it still doesn't look right. IMO if we are to drop a tall it should be either Blake or Dawson. Unlikely though.

[degruch]

I have to agree with Plugger on this. Ross is taing a big risk if he decides to go this way and it could leave us exposed. If Mumford smashes Gardey, we will be in big trouble.

We can try dominating the clearances via the ruck, or we try shut them down...either way we're carrying risk. At least we can eliminate the shitty playing surface and gastro this time!

[maverick]

Fair enough, the first half we launched big bombs from half back and gave our forwards no chance, they flooded back and killed us on the counter attack.

Was this the structure or the execution?

As harsh as it would be, Gardiner is a better ruckman than McEvoy and will lift our clearances as a result. We won them 34-31 on the night, what were they in the first half, anyone know?

Will he last the game, that is the big question for me.

[SainterK]

If Gardiner gets a run over Ben this week Maverick, you'd think Blake retains his spot just in case?

I am quite surprised by this thread, that plugger didn't agree with two dedicated ruckmen, it's not like his expressed this sentiment already.

[plugger66]

If Gardiner gets a run over Ben this week Maverick, you'd think Blake retains his spot just in case?

I am quite surprised by this thread, that plugger didn't agree with two dedicated ruckmen, it's not like his expressed this sentiment already.

Luckily you have said Rooy shouldnt be Captain just once on this site. I actually wanted to know what others thought and why they wanted 2 ruckmen.

[maverick]

If Gardiner gets a run over Ben this week Maverick, you'd think Blake retains his spot just in case?

I am quite surprised by this thread, that plugger didn't agree with two dedicated ruckmen, it's not like his expressed this sentiment already.

I think Blake definitely retains his spot, I reckon he has Gwilt's defensive spot. Blake can play 3rd man up, run transition, provide chop out and at a pinch play on Goodes and even as a forward defensive if necessary. Unfortunately he can't kick like Gwilt...

As good as Ben will be, Gardy is the one that will get us through a heavy stoppage game. He has presence, he hits hard and hurts people, legally.

We talk about missing Lenny with regards to stoppages, I think we miss Gardy more myself.

[Devilhead]

Blah Blah Blah - Gardi will play and the Saints will win

[Sobraz]

Davis v. Magpies
Shaw v. Swans
Yarren v. Blues

Were all pretty much bog against us in the last month.
All running, linking, ball carrying half backs.

Clearly we can't afford to continue this trend, as it can cut a team to pieces.
For that reason, MG & Ben can't play in the same side.
I like them both, and was impressed by MG's game, and am a massive wrap for Mac, but it cannot work..

We have Kosi this time around to help with Mumford (who isn't a jumping ruck so kos should hold his own, and try to hurt him pushing forward)..

I'd even be inclined to drop Blake (as good as he's been) or Zac for another smaller, more offensive type.. Perhaps Gamble (as much as I don't rate him, he can make one of the running half backs a little more accountable.


As such, my changes would be:
Out: Gardi, Blake
In: Armo, Gamble

[Spinner]

Gardiner should not play.

Body not fit enough. Need to go with confidence in McEvoy as we have all year.



It seems peoples solution to a dominate opposition ruckman... Is to just play more ruckmen.


Dont think its that easy.

[jays]

go gardi

[St Lenny]

Don't agree at all. It didn't work because Ben had an off night. We played Zac on the forward line and that worked. Ben has improved vastly this season no doubt, but he is not so flash up against the really big name ruckmen. Where as Gardi on the other hand is fantastic, but can the knee hold up? Leaves us no option but to play both of them.

[kosifantutti23]

The Blues kicked the first goal of the third and then MG was subsituted. It could have been coincidence but all of a sudden we stopped their run out of the backline and even had more possessions than them by the end of the game which didnt look possible at half time.

According to the AFL match centre

Carlton 424
St Kilda 352

Are you just making stuff up?