How hard do we mark him on here....public enemy #1 these days....
Its got to the point now, that in many eyes he cannot do a thing right....its like the raph clarke rubbish....whilst its OK to acknowledge their mistakes, it should be balanced with acknowledgement of good games......which some cantget their head around...
He has deserved some critisism this season, but he gets more than that...He gets blamed for being a squib (ridiculous) whilst he aint lenny hayes, I see little evidence of him not taking his turn....although his tackling can be lacking at times
Really, his numbers are pretty similar.....he is getting ot over 20 times, as usual his disposal can be poor....he does carry the footy and kick at speed a bit....hehas probably been a bit more accountable of late...
For an example
He played on nicoski sat....who has been in ripping form, did well on him and gathered 31 himself....
He got media votes
Yet only one or two out of twenty or more considered hi in our best 5 when it came to giving saintsational votes.....
Gram
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Dr Spaceman
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Beno88
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Gram put in an improved performance last night and played his role as well as anyone. He did much more good than bad, but like Clarke in the past, Gram's errors/poor decisions are often glaring and critical. His kicking and contested football has been his recent downfall, the former improved last night but latter needs work. His run and carry is important to our structure and there's nothing stopping him turning it around like Peake has. Last night was a step in the right direction and he was far from our bottom five, but as far our best go he was well behind Montagna, Dal Santo, Peake, Clarke, Dempster, Dawson, Milne & Gilbert.
He has been getting plenty of the ball in recent weeks however his disposal has been poor and his intensity down. He's not imune to criticism. But he was good last night. Shut down a dangerous player, gathered plenty of the ball and most importantly, played with intensity and used it well. He's a very important player for us when he's up and about.
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Teflon
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Perspective -thank you.Beno88 wrote:Gram put in an improved performance last night and played his role as well as anyone. He did much more good than bad, but like Clarke in the past, Gram's errors/poor decisions are often glaring and critical. His kicking and contested football has been his recent downfall, the former improved last night but latter needs work. His run and carry is important to our structure and there's nothing stopping him turning it around like Peake has. Last night was a step in the right direction and he was far from our bottom five, but as far our best go he was well behind Montagna, Dal Santo, Peake, Clarke, Dempster, Dawson, Milne & Gilbert.
Its all well and good to run round screaming "Gram played well...Gram played well.." but reality is he has been ordinary for some time and massive question marks remain over his foot skills under pressure and his ability to apply some sort of body pressure.
Last night was definately a step in the right direction - and not just for Gram, I thought Gilberts disposal (and disposal of the team across the board) was very good.
Now to maintain it.
“Yeah….nah””
Votes are always subjective....there is never an exact best 5, its a perception, so you really can never say with certainty that he was behind tne following, without an IMO.....although it maybe well correct
Point was, with him sometimes the votes are too subjective.....personal feelings about him as a player cloud peoples judgements on hos games
I want to go and compare his seasons now...because his real critisism seems to have grown in late 2010-2011...
Point was, with him sometimes the votes are too subjective.....personal feelings about him as a player cloud peoples judgements on hos games
I want to go and compare his seasons now...because his real critisism seems to have grown in late 2010-2011...
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busso mick
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I am a big student of body language and last night he was looking very positive which reflected in his game. A times this year he has looked totally disinterested and his perfomance has been poor. Maybe this trial has been weighing heavily on his mind, but you can't argue with over 30 disposals and a solid game.
He certainly has the talent and as Beno88 mentioned there is a fairly obvious example close by in Brett Peake to see what a little application can produce. I have been critical of his output this year but last night it was a very good effort and hopefully a springboard for the rest of this season. If he can maintain his effort along with Peake we look a whole lot better as a team with our running at the opposition.
He certainly has the talent and as Beno88 mentioned there is a fairly obvious example close by in Brett Peake to see what a little application can produce. I have been critical of his output this year but last night it was a very good effort and hopefully a springboard for the rest of this season. If he can maintain his effort along with Peake we look a whole lot better as a team with our running at the opposition.
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Moccha
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Re: Gram
Nicoski is crap!BigMart wrote:How hard do we mark him on here....public enemy #1 these days....
Its got to the point now, that in many eyes he cannot do a thing right....its like the raph clarke rubbish....whilst its OK to acknowledge their mistakes, it should be balanced with acknowledgement of good games......which some cantget their head around...
He has deserved some critisism this season, but he gets more than that...He gets blamed for being a squib (ridiculous) whilst he aint lenny hayes, I see little evidence of him not taking his turn....although his tackling can be lacking at times
Really, his numbers are pretty similar.....he is getting ot over 20 times, as usual his disposal can be poor....he does carry the footy and kick at speed a bit....hehas probably been a bit more accountable of late...
For an example
He played on nicoski sat....who has been in ripping form, did well on him and gathered 31 himself....
He got media votes
Yet only one or two out of twenty or more considered hi in our best 5 when it came to giving saintsational votes.....
Another opportunity awaits!
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iwantmeseats
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Well I wouldnt call him a "squib" , as you put it, but I have seen him in recent weeks kind of pull out of a contested situation more than once. Or maybe not go quite as hard as he could, might be a better way of putting it.
His kicking is WAY sub standard AFL level and needs to improve. However, he aint the only one on the list with that problem.
His kicking is WAY sub standard AFL level and needs to improve. However, he aint the only one on the list with that problem.
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saintsRrising
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Like many THIS season Gram was not in good form. It was no accident that we were losing so many games earlier this year.
Gram like many has now improved in recent times.
Raph played a great game this week...but can he back it up? Consistently good football is his issue.
Biggest underachiever at the Saints this year relative to their ability is Roo.
Back on Gram...I suspect his body was not quite right. He now looks to be running freer, and kicking longer.
While some may bemoan his defensive game as a backman....what they are forgetting is that in Football 2011 that if you do not have run and drive out of your backline that you are dead.
Simply put you have to take more risk now with your backline. If you don't then opposition teams will forward press and then the percentages are against you.
Lyon knows this...and this is why he is also persevering with Raph. If we cannot get attack and drive from our backline then we have no hope. Our 2009 gameplan has been outmoded.
We cannot leave it just to BJ and Sam to be the ones to set up play as it is too easy to shat down just two options.
Gram like many has now improved in recent times.
Raph played a great game this week...but can he back it up? Consistently good football is his issue.
Biggest underachiever at the Saints this year relative to their ability is Roo.
Back on Gram...I suspect his body was not quite right. He now looks to be running freer, and kicking longer.
While some may bemoan his defensive game as a backman....what they are forgetting is that in Football 2011 that if you do not have run and drive out of your backline that you are dead.
Simply put you have to take more risk now with your backline. If you don't then opposition teams will forward press and then the percentages are against you.
Lyon knows this...and this is why he is also persevering with Raph. If we cannot get attack and drive from our backline then we have no hope. Our 2009 gameplan has been outmoded.
We cannot leave it just to BJ and Sam to be the ones to set up play as it is too easy to shat down just two options.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
I'd argue that our 2009 game plan did include both Raph and Grammy breaking the lines and taking it on. Perhaps there is just more of a need to emphasise it in the press. It's interesting to watch an 09 game when we were at our peak that there was plenty of run, our forward press was working a great deal better.Our 2009 gameplan has been outmoded.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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InkerSaint
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The radio comment back in round 2 about players wallowing in pity was badly judged. He was hardly setting the example.
Gram has been a serial villain in a year where the Saints have been crying for players to stand up. He also hasn't been the Lone Ranger. The missing ingredient for all of them was confidence.
All credit to him, and the whole team for Saturday's effort... not one passenger. Together they honoured a legend of our club in the style he deserved.
Gram has been a serial villain in a year where the Saints have been crying for players to stand up. He also hasn't been the Lone Ranger. The missing ingredient for all of them was confidence.
All credit to him, and the whole team for Saturday's effort... not one passenger. Together they honoured a legend of our club in the style he deserved.
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
Yup - his disposal on the weekend was top class and it was one of his better games.InkerSaint wrote:The radio comment back in round 2 about players wallowing in pity was badly judged. He was hardly setting the example.
Gram has been a serial villain in a year where the Saints have been crying for players to stand up. He also hasn't been the Lone Ranger. The missing ingredient for all of them was confidence.
All credit to him, and the whole team for Saturday's effort... not one passenger. Together they honoured a legend of our club in the style he deserved.
As you say all credit to him, and a couple of other maligned players like Dempster, Kosi, and Raph, who all put in.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Yes it was revenge of the whipping boys on sat night. The good thing about footy is there is always next week and any player can come back bite the doubters - that's what you gotta love.As you say all credit to him, and a couple of other maligned players like Dempster, Kosi, and Raph, who all put in.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.