2 Changes since Round 1

[SaintWodonga]

We have gone full circle, with all the changes, we have only 2 new ones since the 1st time we played the Cats:

Snides in for mini
Steven in for Lenny

I reckon Ross is going for the stronger bodies, we should have one last time, no reason the Cats can't have the 1st loss on Saturday night!

[SaintWal]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

[jonesy]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

Probably why the kids aren't in there. They haven't earnt there spot. When they do they will stay in,ala J.Steven

[degruch]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

That's stretching the bow a little...Geelong aren't a bunch of kids, so RL's picked a team to match them physically, as well as tactically. You'd rather we pitted half a team of guys with less than 20 games under their belt against what's still essentially a double premiership team? I hope they prove good selections, but I certainly don't think it shows any lack of faith in our developing players.

[Enrico_Misso]

Perhaps Three changes.

I doubt very much that Monty will play.
He can barely walk.

[SaintWal]

Geelong have also stuck by the kids they have injected which has essentially fast tracked them in development. Menzel Vardy and Duncan are not dropped on one or two games if playing poor. Admittedly Geelong are on top so can do what they want.

Some times you have to face facts and players like Gilbert and Gram are not earning their spots. Fair enough Gram was sent back to Sandy but did he really deserve a recall? A two game smack on the wrist is all that it was.

As for J. steven well maybe he is lucky that L. Hayes is not up for selection otherwise the joy of seeing him develop would not happen. The joy is knowing that Steven, Hayes, armo, and Montagna will be there next year.

You have also seen Big Mc become just short of A grade in a short time but with the opportunity that injury has given I am sure he will be A grade sooner rather than later.

By the way, I have no probs with Blake coming back as I see it releasing Dal a bit more.

[Con Gorozidis]

By my reckoning since 2009 Grand Final:

Saints have made 6 changes (4 forced)

Cats have made 7 changes (4 forced)

So quite similar use of personnel really. Obviously they also have a new coach.

Psychologically they are probably fresher than us considering what happened in 2010 . But I would expect a close game.

[True Blue Sainter]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

That's stretching the bow a little...Geelong aren't a bunch of kids, so RL's picked a team to match them physically, as well as tactically. You'd rather we pitted half a team of guys with less than 20 games under their belt against what's still essentially a double premiership team? I hope they prove good selections, but I certainly don't think it shows any lack of faith in our developing players.

True - but they have Menzel, Vardy, Duncan & Taylor Hunt playing. That's a fair bit of youthful enthusiasm and potential there.

We don't really have any kids playing - McEvoy and Steven are in their 4th seasons!!

[saintspremiers]

Re our kids Sippa took about 3 games to get as many possies as Dahlhaus (aka Tiny Tim) got last night for Footscray in his second game!

[plugger66]

Re our kids Sippa took about 3 games to get as many possies as Dahlhaus (aka Tiny Tim) got last night for Footscray in his second game!

In siposs defence, he plays as a marking forward. The other guy is a runner. Need to compare him to another runner like Ledger.

[ThePunter]

Our changes from the 2009 GF are:

Out: King, Hayes, Ball, Gardiner, Koschitzke, McQualter.
In: Steven, McEvoy, Peake, Gwilt, Armitage, Gamble.

There's definitely some youth added there.

Geelong:

Out: Harley, Ablett, Hawkins, Byrnes, Blake, Rooke, Selwood.
In: J Hunt, T Hunt, Menzel, Lonergan, Duncan, Podsiadly, Vardy.

Josh Hunt, Lonergan and Podsiadly aren't exactly young.

Seems like a similar blend of youth and talent coming in for both teams.

[terry smith rules]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

So winning 3 out of the last 4 doesn't allow the team who have won to be rewarded and keep their spots

Stupid comment

[mad saint guy]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

Probably why the kids aren't in there. They haven't earnt there spot. When they do they will stay in,ala J.Steven

You don't think the form of Lynch, Walsh and Johnson in the VFL counts for anything over mediocre performances in both levels?

Some of the kids may not be demanding and cementing a spot, but neither are the older players yet they keep getting games. That the situation where the coaches must put the kids in preference over known quantities that aren't up to it. Maybe Gram will get 20 touches (about 8 effective) compared to Ledger's 15 but for the sake of the future he should be in the team. And I can't believe Gamble is getting picked over Lynch, Siposs and Johnson. He is probably the worst St Kilda player I have ever seen live; he gets outbodied, scrambles for a handball to no one and falls over while his opponent runs the ball out uncontested. I'd take Charlie Gardiner over him, and that's saying something.

[Thinline]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

So play the kids but earn a spot.

Don't ever bet on the nose, do you Wal. Each way man aren't you?

[Thinline]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

Probably why the kids aren't in there. They haven't earnt there spot. When they do they will stay in,ala J.Steven

You don't think the form of Lynch, Walsh and Johnson in the VFL counts for anything over mediocre performances in both levels?

Some of the kids may not be demanding and cementing a spot, but neither are the older players yet they keep getting games. That the situation where the coaches must put the kids in preference over known quantities that aren't up to it. Maybe Gram will get 20 touches (about 8 effective) compared to Ledger's 15 but for the sake of the future he should be in the team. And I can't believe Gamble is getting picked over Lynch, Siposs and Johnson. He is probably the worst St Kilda player I have ever seen live; he gets outbodied, scrambles for a handball to no one and falls over while his opponent runs the ball out uncontested. I'd take Charlie Gardiner over him, and that's saying something.

Who are Walsh, Lynch and Johnson going to replace?

Walsh is a key backman - So Fisher? Gilbert? Dawson? Gwilt?

NUP.

Lynch's best footy is played back.

DITTO.

Johnson must be close, but I suspect the thinking is our balance and forward press is better with more nimble med fwds up there.

These guys will get opportunities. You'd reckon Gilbo's one leg into the pair of poor games it'll take to send him to the B's and players do break down.

As for the inclusion of Blake - the young guys are showing potential, but their impact is reserved to moments rather than stretches. You do not put disappearing cameo types in the mix against Geelong. There is nothing to be gained out of that situation, especially if the season is showing glimpses of 'resurrectability'.

Win this we are in the mix with a week off to reset and the Roos to follow.

[saintsRrising]

Our changes from the 2009 GF are:

Out: King, Hayes, Ball, Gardiner, Koschitzke, McQualter.
In: Steven, McEvoy, Peake, Gwilt, Armitage, Gamble.

There's definitely some youth added there.

Geelong:

Out: Harley, Ablett, Hawkins, Byrnes, Blake, Rooke, Selwood.
In: J Hunt, T Hunt, Menzel, Lonergan, Duncan, Podsiadly, Vardy.

Josh Hunt, Lonergan and Podsiadly aren't exactly young.

Seems like a similar blend of youth and talent coming in for both teams.

Exactly.

Look at the Pies this year too. While held up as the example of blooding youth...this year it is older players like Tarrant, Krakouer and Buckley that they have turned too.


I am however disappointed by losing Ledger lost his spot. So Gram will need to be on his game tonight.


However of all the teams in the AFL...the Cats are the ones tat we match up on best....

But to win against them you need hard pressure football for 4 quarters. a few lapses will let them in for a win.

So Lyon has turned to the more experienced players. Cats players are also on the whole big units...so harder bodies will help too.

If we can win it (or even just play well to get our mojo and self-belief back), then with a series of really winnable games coming up our season could be back on track.


However for 20123/2013 we do need some games into the likes of Ledger Sippos, Cripps (now injured....) etc. I am pretty sure that we will see Lyon continue to give them games throughout the year. But right this week Lyon is clearly of the view that we can win against the Cat's....and so he has picked the team that he believes is best able to accomplish that.

4 quarters of pressure and unrelenting grind.


Question is though whether all our players can rediscover their 100% commitment to night. Let's hope so.


PS: 2012 Saints

Sippos Stanley Milne
Schneider Roo Steven
Ray Hayes Joey
Gilbert Fisher Goddard
Demspter Zac Gwilt

Ben CJ Ledger

Cripps Dal Steven Armo........Peake, Gram (still in the mix)

* Expanded midfield for more rotations.
* Cripps and al can run off HB too when required.
* Hopefully with another preseason an weight training Stanley will be ready to play in the seniors as the tall forward and rotating ruck...and Sippos in the third forward role.

[older saint]

Must remember with younger players the physical toll is significant and anything more than 3 weeks in a row requires exceptional strength/size for an 18-19 year old.

Would have prefrred Lunch for Gamble as Gamble will never be a regular while Lynch could and was only dropped after injury.

[Junction Oval]

I have a feeling that Ledger will get a run in place of Joey - very difficult to see Joey coming up this week.

It's clear that Ross has picked an experienced team against an equally experienced, big bodied team. We need to win this one, so I am ok with that.

Guy McKenna (G/Coast) was saying on radio the other day, that he was having to rest his younger players, because of the constant battering that they get at AFL level. Likely to be similar at the Saints.

[Con Gorozidis]

I have a feeling that Ledger will get a run in place of Joey - very difficult to see Joey coming up this week.

It's clear that Ross has picked an experienced team against an equally experienced, big bodied team. We need to win this one, so I am ok with that.

Guy McKenna (G/Coast) was saying on radio the other day, that he was having to rest his younger players, because of the constant battering that they get at AFL level. Likely to be similar at the Saints.

Dunno. Since Lyon has been coach there have been very few late changes. He seems to pick the final side on Thursdays .
But of course it happens from time to time if player is very sore .

[gringo]

Gamble hasn't been a revelation at the saints but needs to be given a go. He did play badly last week at while he isn't quick he seems instinctive. He was amazing in the NAB cup remember. And he is getting a game because he played well in the Zebs.

[mad saint guy]

Gamble hasn't been a revelation at the saints but needs to be given a go. He did play badly last week at while he isn't quick he seems instinctive. He was amazing in the NAB cup remember. And he is getting a game because he played well in the Zebs.

He had an excellent mini-game against a pathetic Brisbane side in the first week of the NAB cup but has been hopeless since then. He can take a flashy grab or run onto a certain goal every now and then but he has absolutely no physical strength, isn't quik it skilled and goes to ground far too easily. An Johnson has been much better at Sandy.

[Sainternist]

Perhaps Three changes.

I doubt very much that Monty will play.
He can barely walk.

Good call.

I'm Skeptical about seeing Joey out there tonight. We may find Tom Ledger will remain in the side. Or was he not listed as an emergency?

[saint58]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

I tend to agree with you the players like ledger (has pace did well and kicks goals) the future of the club.

We dont have a young key forward apparently? well Archer,Walsh both are playing well at sandy have big bodys and will not benifit from not playing tonight.

With rooy they could learn a lot about how to play as a forward and be up to speed by next season.Wouldnt it be great if we had a nother key forward to kick to who will compete and not be pushed off the ball like kosi.

The alterative is not to play them and then realise into next season that we are lacking a Key forward and its to late then we have to thing to the future.

I mentioned these 2 but there is allso stanley,johnson,lynch and sippos i dont wont a nother season like this one and before we know it its 3 years before these guys get enought experience to be dangerious.

[SaintWal]

I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.

So play the kids but earn a spot.

Don't ever bet on the nose, do you Wal. Each way man aren't you?

It is not both ways. And tonight would clearly prove a point. Gram is not in good enough form to take the spot of any of the kids. If he was playing good footy at Sandy then bring him in but otherwise put some invaluable game time into the kids until players like Gram force their way in through good form rather than reputation.