Get the Sub right!

[older saint]

I really think this season we really have mucked up the sub.
To me it has becomne clear you need a runner as the sub who can accumulate possessions and be a link man for a quarter and a half or so ( barring injury).

Clarke was never going to do that.
We had Blake in another game - again not going to provide that.
McQualter and Jones were also subs - again not the type of player that can change a game or accumulate posessions as a fresh player.

Peake against Geelong did it - 10 possessions. Yes he butchers the ball but he provided run and linking ability.

Look at Peake, Cripps, Steven, players who canrun, get to a contest and make a difference in a short period of time, not role players !

[3rd generation saint]

Have to agree, I just nominated Jack to be next week's sub.
For me, the sub has to be someone who can make an impact in a short period of time.

[GrumpyOne]

Spot on Guys.

[NoMore]

Raph is a player who works into games. Expecting him to have an impact as the sub was unrealistic. All Raph's good games have been good coz of the second half. Wasn't really sure y we subbed at all last night. Was Cripps injured

[Solar]

very good call. Was the worst decision of the night. Of all players to put as a sub. BTW cripps had a sore knee and thus was subbed off. Perhaps this was a set thing because the kid could not run out the game.

[NoMore]

Thanks for that. Will he be ok for next week. Not that he was great but looks like a good user of the ball. Plus with Armo we are starting to see the benefit of continuity for young players.

But Raph as Sub was another RL blunder to add to a growing list which is worrying. We seem to be heading down the 2007 path again where he chops and changes every week

[SainterK]

I think the sub came down to everyone else being required for a purpose in the best 21.

Raph didn't have one, so he got the green vest.

Not so much tactical, than a lack of a role.

Still think Winmar would of been sub had he not missed so much footy being emergency.

[3rd generation saint]

Actually I predicited that either Cripps or Siposs would be subbed off last night.
Cripps got a knock to his knee and went off, which was a pity because he was starting to get into the game a bit.

[bigred]

I reckon you are wasting Jack as a sub.

[GrumpyOne]

I reckon you are wasting Jack as a sub.

Maybe we don't know Jack.

[saintspremiers]

Raph and BJ need to both hold hands and go to the head doctor.

Then we can start talking subs/strategies with these boys.

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm a fan of Raph, always have been, and agree he does usually take time to work himself into a game.

So yes, the decision to use him as a sub does seem strange.

But people are saying we need to change things around, bring in kids, try something different etc. If we're in the experimental mode why not give him a crack and see how he goes? From all reports he played very well at Sandy the week before. 

Some things will work and some won't. No doubt this one didn't this week.

However in a side that's lacking some skills the sub issue is always gonna be a hot topic. Anyone who is a gun needs to be in the 21. So by default, anyone who's the sub is going to have question marks against their name, whether it be Raph, Peake, Mini....

Let's face it, if a sub comes on and blows a game apart, 99.9% of fans will want them to start the following week. And then we'll have to come up with another sub. 

It's a tricky selection and without an obvious choice will continue to test us, and many other teams, throughout 2011.

[defacto]

i thought smith would be a great sub. he always starts games in a blast.

[dcstkfc]

Raph is a player who works into games. Expecting him to have an impact as the sub was unrealistic. All Raph's good games have been good coz of the second half. Wasn't really sure y we subbed at all last night. Was Cripps injured

+1

I'm also struggling to fathom how a player can have 1 possession and 3 clangers.

[plugger66]

Raph is a player who works into games. Expecting him to have an impact as the sub was unrealistic. All Raph's good games have been good coz of the second half. Wasn't really sure y we subbed at all last night. Was Cripps injured

+1

I'm also struggling to fathom how a player can have 1 possession and 3 clangers.

Dropped mark and 2 frees against.

[dcstkfc]

Raph is a player who works into games. Expecting him to have an impact as the sub was unrealistic. All Raph's good games have been good coz of the second half. Wasn't really sure y we subbed at all last night. Was Cripps injured

+1

I'm also struggling to fathom how a player can have 1 possession and 3 clangers.

Dropped mark and 2 frees against.

Long-time Raph backer, but he's reached the end of his tether. Never going to be consistent enough.

[mad saint guy]

Peake would be my sub of choice if we were in a final. Otherwise Steven, Smith, Cripps and maybe Winmar should get the gig.

[Bernard Shakey]

I reckon you are wasting Jack as a sub.

What did he do that deserved a full game last night? He is perfect for the sub role, come on when everyone else is stuffed and have an impact. He doesn't have much of a tank.

[sunsaint]

glad older saint raised this OP
very strange decision to have Raph as sub
the more time the guy gets to think about his footy, the worse he is, & giving him 2-3 quarters on the pine does his head in.
we just dont seem to be getting the best out of our list ATM

[Eastern]

So, do we need a specialist sub? What sort of player should it be? Impact player? YES. Player who can play both ends and possibly in the middle? YES. Who do we have that can fulfil this role?

Peake? Done it before

Lynch? Does he have the tank? Has been playing both ends at VFL

Ledger? Might be a way off and could go straight past this spot

Dempster? In the starting line up atm

Farren? For a game after he gets over his groin virus

Who else? !!

[saintspremiers]

I like the idea of a young player being the sub.

youguns don't have the endurance for a full game IMO.

I'd go for Crippa or Sippa as the sub this week.

They'd fire up like mad if they only had a quarter and bit to play.

[gringo]

I think it is bit of bet hedging, bring in a utility that can cover forward back mid. Kosi can injure himself walking down the race, so you go with the confident game breaker or the guy who can cover for any injuries. Looks clever if you sustain an injury to Fisher or Gwilt, dour and boring if you lose by 3 points.

[bigcarl]

I reckon you are wasting Jack as a sub.

He looks like an in and under mid to me. Very strong player.

[Bernard Shakey]

I reckon you are wasting Jack as a sub.

He looks like an in and under mid to me. Very strong player.

What did he do last night? 8 possies, 3 contested. 6 tackles was good.
Good stats for a sub, but he wasn't. I think it would suit him at the moment.

[To the top]

The first thing you do is pick your best and best balanced 21.

To have a sub who is then deployed to a half back flank is self defeating including because the prime asset of the sub is freshness - so you would inject that freshness to a more running, attacking position. Not having to chase a guernsey around the back half. I would have injected Clarke into the mid-field and said "use your freshness to have an impact".

It may be that a younger player who will have difficulty running out a game (or a season) is the ideal.

No sense in having a key position or ruckman as a sub because they would have to replace like players and are therefore too specific.

It is unfair to sieze on a couple of incidents but indicative of where we are under pressure was Baker being cornered as to disposal and squeezing a left foot dribbler into the goal square and Blake being hit in space and (commendably) trying to run late in the game to find that his legs were not quick enough, having to dispose under pressure and kicking to the chest of a Carlton defender.

Both resulted in goals to Carlton.

Then there was McQualter dropping marks, unable to use space and scragging a Carlton player for some unknown reason - both cost goals and there were 2 others he gave away.

Milne started well, and IF we could afford to play him no more than 20 metres from goal it would be magnificent - but when up the ground he has no effect and his disposal is suspect.

Except for a couple of occasions Carlton looked far more dangerous with the ball than us, committing our defenders to chasing guernseys then standing marks as they spread and hit leading targets.

McEvoy and Blake being smashed in the ruck did not help.

Armitage and Gilbert put their heads over the ball - and Jones had an impact in defence - and some improved foot skills when looking straight ahead.

Koschitzke showed his importance - and the benefit it is for us to get the ball in in a hurry and to his advantage. Plus he competed in the ruck so we need match conditioning into him in a hurry.

Dempster. Just do not know. 191cm who plays small and has no impact with the ball. Can we afford him? In the centre square to negate when we are being smashed in the ruck and need someone to read and get their hands on the pill?

Our elites continue to struggle under the burden of some others.

The kids competed. And did some useful things.

From the VFL game, I do not know about Simpkin and Walsh.

Winmar ditto.

Ledger showed a bit and Lynch got plenty of it.

I would really like to see Cahill back ASAP.

And Johnson given another go - even at full back.

The competition is such that we can not over-load with youngsters so there will be some rotating - and this is where the sub rule comes in.