STOLEN - We have lost two premierships !!!

[Enrico_Misso]

Current life expectancy in Australia is 81.4 years.
(Soon to be) 18 clubs.
Even playing field (if only).
Therefore, the average expected number of premierships in a lifetime = 81.4/18 = 4.5

But if you assume that for the first 8-10 years of your life the benefit of a premiership would be lost on you and for the final few years you are also too demented/frail/incontinent etc, then you probably only have a window to enjoy a premiership win of say 70 years.
So 70/18 = 3.9 premierships.

So that is just FOUR premierships per club in a lifetime.
That of course is the prospect for our young supporters, for older supporters it is EVEN LESS !!!!

And I'm conveniently ignoring the fact that the AFL will do EVERYTHING in it's power to ensure that their new bastard love child clubs get up, and continue to prosper in order to grow their precious new "markets". And whilst they give them favourable treatment it just makes it even harder for us.

So the young followers of Melbourne based clubs will be doing well to see three premierships in their lifetime.

In the old days of 12 teams the equivalent expectation would be
70/12 = 5.8 premierships.

So the push to nationalise by creating (as opposed to relocating) new clubs will cost our kids almost two premierships.
Does that sit comfortably?

[asaint]

No it does not. I drive past the lexus centre on my way to Moorabbin and want to puke. The filfth have soooo much money and keep getting bigger. Arizona? No problem! With the AFL wanting to expand,they don't give a crap about their captive market. And I am captive because I could never walk away from the saints. Seeing them win a premiership means everything to me. How much would a premiership mean to the new gold coast supporters?

[Enrico_Misso]

asaint,
that is why it is really frightening.
It is not an even playing field.

Collingwood get their special fixture deals, and can afford Arizona and the Lickarse Centre etc.

Gold Coast and West Sydney will get prime time scheduling, easy draws, priority draft picks, extra salary cap disguised as marketing etc. etc.
They will be successful because the AFL will ensure they are.
And yes, when they win a premiership their "new" supporters will go out and have a couple of drinks and will have forgotten all about in in a week.

And all of this comes AT OUR EXPENSE.

[bigcarl]

Even playing field.

bwaahaaahaaa

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Let's look at the last decade of premiers:

2000. Essendon. Proven salary-cap cheats.
2001-2003. Brisbane. "Special concessions"
2004. Port Adelaide.
2005. Sydney. "Special concessions"
2006. West Coast. Drug cheats.
2007 Geelong. Father-son beneficiaries.
2008. Hawthorn.
2009. Geelong. See above.
2010. Collingwood. Dream run at MCG, multitude of blockbusters and only 4 trips interstate.

What did St Kilda get? Too many games on punishing Etihad surface (it ruined the Bulldogs), six games interstate, a record numbert of six day breaks, Baker shafted by the MRP, and the second-worst free-kick ratio in the league. Not to mention an unbelievable run of "scandals" in the mainstream media.

I say again. I've thought about this very carefully and the only answer is to CHEAT.

[plugger66]

asaint,
that is why it is really frightening.
It is not an even playing field.

Collingwood get their special fixture deals, and can afford Arizona and the Lickarse Centre etc.

Gold Coast and West Sydney will get prime time scheduling, easy draws, priority draft picks, extra salary cap disguised as marketing etc. etc.
They will be successful because the AFL will ensure they are.
And yes, when they win a premiership their "new" supporters will go out and have a couple of drinks and will have forgotten all about in in a week.

And all of this comes AT OUR EXPENSE.

What are you on about. Have we won 10 flags already because that is what the maths says. No we havent because unlike you most people know premierships arent decided by maths. If you are the best side on GF day you will win the flag whether there is 18 clubs or 4. You need to get a grip and stop looking for stupid reasons why we will win less flags because of 2 extra teams.

[bigcarl]

What are you on about. Have we won 10 flags already because that is what the maths says. No we havent because unlike you most people know premierships arent decided by maths. If you are the best side on GF day you will win the flag whether there is 18 clubs or 4. You need to get a grip and stop looking for stupid reasons why we will win less flags because of 2 extra teams.

He is right, Plugger. Do the sums.

[plugger66]

What are you on about. Have we won 10 flags already because that is what the maths says. No we havent because unlike you most people know premierships arent decided by maths. If you are the best side on GF day you will win the flag whether there is 18 clubs or 4. You need to get a grip and stop looking for stupid reasons why we will win less flags because of 2 extra teams.

He is right, Plugger. Do the sums.

So how many flags have we won so far in 114 years?

[bigcarl]

What are you on about. Have we won 10 flags already because that is what the maths says. No we havent because unlike you most people know premierships arent decided by maths. If you are the best side on GF day you will win the flag whether there is 18 clubs or 4. You need to get a grip and stop looking for stupid reasons why we will win less flags because of 2 extra teams.

He is right, Plugger. Do the sums.

So how many flags have we won so far in 114 years?

Look who is getting behind Demetriou's quest for world domination.

[plugger66]

What are you on about. Have we won 10 flags already because that is what the maths says. No we havent because unlike you most people know premierships arent decided by maths. If you are the best side on GF day you will win the flag whether there is 18 clubs or 4. You need to get a grip and stop looking for stupid reasons why we will win less flags because of 2 extra teams.

He is right, Plugger. Do the sums.

So how many flags have we won so far in 114 years?

Look who is getting behind Demetriou's quest for world domination.

Obviously you dont know the answer. it is one so you must agree then that 114 sides play AFL. Just do the maths Bigcarl.

[oakleighboy]

What has Kosi stolen ?

A big fat pay check for doing absolutely nothing for years.

[BringBackMadDog]

What has Kosi stolen ?

A big fat pay check for doing absolutely nothing for years.

Oh for ffs will you please p1ss off you Internet hero

[Enrico_Misso]

The fact we have only won one premiership in 114 seasons illustrates the point that it is NOT an even playing field.

But going forward,
- not only is it still not an even playing field,
- but there are now 17 instead of 11 other competitors
- and we will continue to be one of the "unfavoured" ones.

[plugger66]

The fact we have only won one premiership in 114 seasons illustrates the point that it is NOT an even playing field.

But going forward,
- not only is it still not an even playing field,
- but there are now 17 instead of 11 other competitors
- and we will continue to be one of the "unfavoured" ones.

So Geelong were a favoured one. Not at all. They were the best side so they won 2 flags. Stop looking for excuses before it even happens.

[Enrico_Misso]

The fact we have only won one premiership in 114 seasons illustrates the point that it is NOT an even playing field.

But going forward,
- not only is it still not an even playing field,
- but there are now 17 instead of 11 other competitors
- and we will continue to be one of the "unfavoured" ones.

So Geelong were a favoured one. Not at all. They were the best side so they won 2 flags. Stop looking for excuses before it even happens.

As usual you've missed the point

What makes you think in the next 114 years
- that we will recruit better than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better coaches than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better administrators than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us a better draw than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us any concessions over the other 17 clubs?

As fans we would hope that we might do better than average.
But there is no reason why we will.

So all clubs, particularly Melbourne based ones like us, should prepare for limited success.

[plugger66]

The fact we have only won one premiership in 114 seasons illustrates the point that it is NOT an even playing field.

But going forward,
- not only is it still not an even playing field,
- but there are now 17 instead of 11 other competitors
- and we will continue to be one of the "unfavoured" ones.

So Geelong were a favoured one. Not at all. They were the best side so they won 2 flags. Stop looking for excuses before it even happens.

As usual you've missed the point

What makes you think in the next 114 years
- that we will recruit better than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better coaches than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better administrators than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us a better draw than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us any concessions over the other 17 clubs?

As fans we would hope that we might do better than average.
But there is no reason why we will.

So all clubs, particularly Melbourne based ones like us, should prepare for limited success.

You have missed the point. You are using maths to determine flags when it is actually ability that wins you flags. You have asked all those questions but in 114 years with between 4 and 16 clubs we have failed in all those questions apart from one year. Maths doesnt decide how many flags you win otherwise Geelong have won one to many recently and Brisbane two to many. If we are the best side GF day it doesnt matter if there are 4 clubs or 20 clubs.

[Enrico_Misso]

The fact we have only won one premiership in 114 seasons illustrates the point that it is NOT an even playing field.

But going forward,
- not only is it still not an even playing field,
- but there are now 17 instead of 11 other competitors
- and we will continue to be one of the "unfavoured" ones.

So Geelong were a favoured one. Not at all. They were the best side so they won 2 flags. Stop looking for excuses before it even happens.

As usual you've missed the point

What makes you think in the next 114 years
- that we will recruit better than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better coaches than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better administrators than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us a better draw than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us any concessions over the other 17 clubs?

As fans we would hope that we might do better than average.
But there is no reason why we will.

So all clubs, particularly Melbourne based ones like us, should prepare for limited success.

You have missed the point. You are using maths to determine flags when it is actually ability that wins you flags. You have asked all those questions but in 114 years with between 4 and 16 clubs we have failed in all those questions apart from one year. Maths doesnt decide how many flags you win otherwise Geelong have won one to many recently and Brisbane two to many. If we are the best side GF day it doesnt matter if there are 4 clubs or 20 clubs.

Ability does win flags.
So why do you assume that StKilda has and will maintain an edge over the other 17 clubs?
We won't be a top 4 side forever.
Why can't you see that?


Let me try to really dumb it down for you.

If you've got 72 chicken nuggets.
And 12 kids to feed.

They each should get 6 nuggets.
Maybe a couple cheat and steal or trick to get more than their share.

Then 6 more kids turn up.
So now on average they will only get 4 nuggets each.
(That's 72/18 = 4 if I've lost you).

Sure there will still be ones that trick their way to more.
And some that are favourite children that the chef will try and look after.

But the general principle is
- that there are now more kids,
- we aren't a favoured child.
Why would you expect us to get more nuggets?

[plugger66]

The fact we have only won one premiership in 114 seasons illustrates the point that it is NOT an even playing field.

But going forward,
- not only is it still not an even playing field,
- but there are now 17 instead of 11 other competitors
- and we will continue to be one of the "unfavoured" ones.

So Geelong were a favoured one. Not at all. They were the best side so they won 2 flags. Stop looking for excuses before it even happens.

As usual you've missed the point

What makes you think in the next 114 years
- that we will recruit better than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better coaches than the other 17 clubs?
- that we will attract better administrators than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us a better draw than the other 17 clubs?
- that the AFL will give us any concessions over the other 17 clubs?

As fans we would hope that we might do better than average.
But there is no reason why we will.

So all clubs, particularly Melbourne based ones like us, should prepare for limited success.

You have missed the point. You are using maths to determine flags when it is actually ability that wins you flags. You have asked all those questions but in 114 years with between 4 and 16 clubs we have failed in all those questions apart from one year. Maths doesnt decide how many flags you win otherwise Geelong have won one to many recently and Brisbane two to many. If we are the best side GF day it doesnt matter if there are 4 clubs or 20 clubs.

Ability does win flags.
So why do you assume that StKilda has and will maintain an edge over the other 17 clubs?
We won't be a top 4 side forever.
Why can't you see that?


Let me try to really dumb it down for you.

If you've got 72 chicken nuggets.
And 12 kids to feed.

They each should get 6 nuggets.
Maybe a couple cheat and steal or trick to get more than their share.

Then 6 more kids turn up.
So now on average they will only get 4 nuggets each.
(That's 72/18 = 4 if I've lost you).

Sure there will still be ones that trick their way to more.
And some that are favourite children that the chef will try and look after.

But the general principle is
- that there are now more kids,
- we aren't a favoured child.
Why would you expect us to get more nuggets?

You dont get it. What you have presented is maths. We actually play footy and not maths. of course we will be no good in future and we will not win the flag whether there is 4 sides or 18. We will them come good again and can win it whether there is 4 sides or 18. If it is done by maths i would be very happy as we will win a flag in the next 18 years and considering we have won one in 114 years that would be great. However it isnt done by maths so if we are the best side in 5 years time on GF day and there are 17 other sides we will still win the flag.

[3rd generation saint]

Here's some maths for you plugger 66, since the 16 team competition, if it we're an even playing field over a 22 week season, than each side should play all the other sides 5 times over a 5 year period.
That would mean that one year there would only be 1 derby, 1 showdown, the filth would play Essendon and Carlscum once, and heaven knows the Filth may have to travel to WA twice in a season and play a few more interstate games.
That's if it was a fair dinkum, level playing field and a fair dinkum fixture. It is the only major sporting fixture in the world that is deliberately rigged so that cetain teams play each other the maximum amount of times. You don't see the NFL making sure the New York Giants play the New York Jets, in fact I can't even remember a season if that game has ever happened. The Yankees and The Mets have 1 series a year against each other. Yes we have only won 1 premiership, and that was our own fault in the past because there wasn't the corporate greed in the AFL 100, 50, even 25 years ago.
But now, I really do believe the game is compromised with corruption, there are secret deals, like how Luke Ball just managed to stay in the draft until it was Collingwood's turn to pick him.
If there ever was a real investigation into the workings of this game, Mr Demetriou may flee back to his country of heritage and go into hiding because he'd be facing serious jail time.

[StSteven]

Add it up any way you like, select the facts that suit your argument, leave out those that don't (like our draft picks) BUT the result is we blew two opportunities. Our fault, our need to fix it....and bleeding quickly.

I am already worried I may not see a flag in my lifetime. Last two years I thought I would.

[plugger66]

Here's some maths for you plugger 66, since the 16 team competition, if it we're an even playing field over a 22 week season, than each side should play all the other sides 5 times over a 5 year period.
That would mean that one year there would only be 1 derby, 1 showdown, the filth would play Essendon and Carlscum once, and heaven knows the Filth may have to travel to WA twice in a season and play a few more interstate games.
That's if it was a fair dinkum, level playing field and a fair dinkum fixture. It is the only major sporting fixture in the world that is deliberately rigged so that cetain teams play each other the maximum amount of times. You don't see the NFL making sure the New York Giants play the New York Jets, in fact I can't even remember a season if that game has ever happened. The Yankees and The Mets have 1 series a year against each other. Yes we have only won 1 premiership, and that was our own fault in the past because there wasn't the corporate greed in the AFL 100, 50, even 25 years ago.
But now, I really do believe the game is compromised with corruption, there are secret deals, like how Luke Ball just managed to stay in the draft until it was Collingwood's turn to pick him.
If there ever was a real investigation into the workings of this game, Mr Demetriou may flee back to his country of heritage and go into hiding because he'd be facing serious jail time.

That is a all made up rubbish and has nothing to do with whether there is 4 sides or 18. Corruption my arse. just another supporter upset we couldnt win a flag. Where was the corruption on GF day. we werent good enough and that has nothing to do with who we play once or twice. Yes the draw isnt level but what it is is good for the 16 sides now and the 18 in future.

I suppose the game is that corrupt that about 6 stadiums have been rebulit at hardly any cost to the AFL. Stop looking for excuses. By theway the draw has been pretty much the same since we have had 16 sides and that is well before AD was in charge. maybe they are all out to get us. Dont get a sore neck looking behind you all day.

[3rd generation saint]

Nothing to do with the Grand Final result Plugger, all to do with the fairness of the competiton, and with 18 teams we will have a 24 week season and the same figure applies, each team should play each other 5 times over 3 years.
But no, we have to all those games, plus the inevitable 2 games year between Brisbane and Gold Coast plus Sydney and GWS.
As I said, you don't see the Premier League making sure there are more derby's between great rivals, though they do get two a year because each team palys each other twice, and the FA Cup is still a luck of the draw of the competition, not who will draw in the biggest crowd and make the most money.
Our fixture isn't based on fairness or eveness of the competition, IT IS BASED ON GREED FOR MONEY, and when there is greed for money there is the C word to insure there is more of it. Just look at any major corporation, there wouldn't be one of them that has not had it's share of shady deals.
Yes we have nice shiny new stadiums, and they did cost us, we we're getting screwed at Etihad, and probably still are to a point. We don't get an Anzac Day blockbuster, apparently the tradition began in 1994.
Your right we lost the last two Grand Finals, partially due to our mistakes and some friggin bad luck, but the fact remains that our club gets no where the arm chair ride certain other clubs do when comes to the draw each year.
The old VFL under a very honourable man Sir Kenneth Luke decided that the only fair draw you could have with a twelve team competition was to have a season of 22 rounds so that everybody played each other twice.
It was up to the clubs to recruit as best they can to be successful and our lack of success was only our fault.

[plugger66]

Nothing to do with the Grand Final result Plugger, all to do with the fairness of the competiton, and with 18 teams we will have a 24 week season and the same figure applies, each team should play each other 5 times over 3 years.
But no, we have to all those games, plus the inevitable 2 games year between Brisbane and Gold Coast plus Sydney and GWS.
As I said, you don't see the Premier League making sure there are more derby's between great rivals, though they do get two a year because each team palys each other twice, and the FA Cup is still a luck of the draw of the competition, not who will draw in the biggest crowd and make the most money.
Our fixture isn't based on fairness or eveness of the competition, IT IS BASED ON GREED FOR MONEY, and when there is greed for money there is the C word to insure there is more of it. Just look at any major corporation, there wouldn't be one of them that has not had it's share of shady deals.
Yes we have nice shiny new stadiums, and they did cost us, we we're getting screwed at Etihad, and probably still are to a point. We don't get an Anzac Day blockbuster, apparently the tradition began in 1994.
Your right we lost the last two Grand Finals, partially due to our mistakes and some friggin bad luck, but the fact remains that our club gets no where the arm chair ride certain other clubs do when comes to the draw each year.
The old VFL under a very honourable man Sir Kenneth Luke decided that the only fair draw you could have with a twelve team competition was to have a season of 22 rounds so that everybody played each other twice.
It was up to the clubs to recruit as best they can to be successful and our lack of success was only our fault.

Luke may have been an honourable man but he was running a bankrupt competition. The greed for money is why we still havent lost a side for 17 years. Sorry but there is no point in having 2 sides from the same state if they dont play each other twice. You can whinging and think everyone is against us but i would rather worry about our club. At least we can control that. Anyway this has nothing to do with maths and 18 sides.

[3rd generation saint]

It's got nothing to do with us!!!!, it;s got everything to do with every team in the competition.
My draw may see us get an absolute shocker one year, but that's the luck of the draw!!!!!
Oh and I'm sure West Coast, Adelaide etc would survive if they only played each other once.
In my opinion, GWS is a disaster waiting to happen, the AFL in it's blindness for money has just made what will become one of the greatest corporate blunders 21st century.
They could have put a team in Tassie, that virtually guaranteed of 30 to 40,000 members, had major corporate backing and would attract 15 to 35,000 people a week to a game and would be profitable from day 1.
No we haven't lost a team since 1996 (14 years).
But we may lose one due to GWS.

[plugger66]

It's got nothing to do with us!!!!, it;s got everything to do with every team in the competition.
My draw may see us get an absolute shocker one year, but that's the luck of the draw!!!!!
Oh and I'm sure West Coast, Adelaide etc would survive if they only played each other once.
In my opinion, GWS is a disaster waiting to happen, the AFL in it's blindness for money has just made what will become one of the greatest corporate blunders 21st century.
They could have put a team in Tassie, that virtually guaranteed of 30 to 40,000 members, had major corporate backing and would attract 15 to 35,000 people a week to a game and would be profitable from day 1.
No we haven't lost a team since 1996 (14 years).
But we may lose one due to GWS.

Well that is just guess work. I would rather work with facts and also hope that all sides survive. maybe you just would kile to say i toild you so. I bet you said it when South moved and then we got Brisbane as well.

Maybe the AFL should just forget about maki9ng money and then a few sides can go broke an d fold. That would be better because if it wasnt us we would have more chance of winning a flag because they are decided by maths apparently. Pity those sides that will probably fold have been in the AFL/VFL for over 80 years.