The Bagging Ross Lyon Thread...

[saintsRrising]

Ok...no doubt win, lose or draw some will come out AFTER the game to state what they will have known to have been obvious, but did not post pre-match.

However it is worth reflecting that Lyon despite our win/loss record of these last two seasons has still copped an amazing amount of stick (IMO) this year...and in particular in the faith that Lyon has shown in a number of players that were not deemed worthy...

Zac...HUGE flak this year.....but Lyon maintained the faith in a guy that was ill last summer. Zac's last month has been solid and his game against an in-form BBBH excellent.

What does he see in Eddy? Why does he keep playing him? Eddy's last 4 games has answered that.

Gardiner Has been beautifully managed this year to peak in the finals.....A Norm Smith is not beyond him.

Dumpster some label him But Dempster has stepped up to the plate after Baker's year was cruelled by overly harsh suspension. Dempster's two shut-down roles have been superb in the finals.


Kosi...might not be what he was....but he is our best second big foward option......and make no mistake having him on the park means that Roo is freer to do what he does for the opposition know that Kosi, if not well held, can kick a bag.

Peake ...why did we get this hack? Well Peakey after having been "Lyonised" has been turned into an aggressive outside player rather than a soft one. Has clicked into Saints Footy now and knows when and where to run...

Milne, does not play well interstate or in big games. Well this year he has achieved both...all playing as a FP a position which few players can play well in and in the history of the game few, if any, FPs have played as well as Milney has over such a long period.
In 2010 Milne'y game has been tweeked and reinvented. He now again faces his biggest challenge in playing in another GF. Harry O..his nemesis will no doubt seek to take him again..but this time I think we will see Milney getting off the leash more with midfield bursts rather than staying at home in the FP which suits the taller Harry O.

Which all adds up to Lyon knowing a lot more about football than any of us.


Now some want to highlight Lyon's mistakes in the trade for Lovett (though a fit Lovett would have been pretty handy in a GF against a team that will attempt to press us) and Ball leaving (though the actually trading was more likely to have been Drain.....and IMO we are better off with Peake than Ball anyway) but really what should be occurring is that we should be celebrating what Lyon has done well.

While we have not won the flag this weekend yet, and may or may not do so......Lyon with his vision and coaching ability has been able to create and mould a team good another to get into two successive Grand Finals.

What I do know is that Lyon will do his best to try and ensure victory on Saturday.....and that he has been doing so all year, and before.

He is not swayed by anything that happens in one week, or even in several weeks...but rather has the vision to work with his players towards what needs to be achieved.




Now I like many have my doubts about some things (like Mini worries me at present)....but what I have absolutely no doubt in is that Lyon is a superb coach.

We are in good hands.

This Saturday we are against an opponent in white-hot form. Lyon will give us the best possible chance of overcoming them.

[saintspremiers]

what he said.

Where are you BigMart??

[Superboot]

Great OP.

Ross has seriously won me over. I think we are in very safe hands.

And I know he'll make the correct decision regarding Bakes, whatever it might be.

[gringo]

Even Thommo was fawning over him last night. Hard to criticise after this season. Very unlucky not to be coach of the year for what he was able to achieve in great adversity. He is likely to be our best since Jeans when he finishes up, probably already is.

[Saints43]

Even Thommo was fawning over him last night.

He always has, hasn't he. He tried to employ him. He said he was a great appointment after he got the arse. Rated his first season as a 5/10. Stated that RL was doing a better job than he ever could.

I don't think he has ever bagged him? May be wrong...

[markp]

Let's make this about GT.

[Stillwaiting]

Great post SR

[Saints43]

Ok...no doubt win, lose or draw some will come out AFTER the game to state what they will have known to have been obvious, but did not post pre-match.

To be fair, in relation to Saturdays match, people can't critique what hasn't happened yet.

And it looks like RL has addressed many of the (perceived) issues from last year - in particular player management - this season.

As mentioned above MG looks to be hitting form for Saturday rather than slowly fading towards the day. As did SK.

RL has rested every midfielder at least once in the six weeks leading up to the finals. They have managed their efforts more carefully than going 100% all season.

And considering all the potential derailments we have encountered this season he has done superbly to keep them focused on what matters for St Kilda.

This year I wouldn't expect to see a change in the plan in the last 30 minutes either. Perhaps last year came as a bit of a shock to the coaches and players. There is nothing new to them this year.

And in a lot of cases it will be boys (in great form and full of confidence...) against men.

I am backing experience.

[Saints43]

Let's make this about GT.

Sorry champ, was still typing my response to the OP.

[SainterK]

GT has never really bagged 'Rossy Lyon' to be fair, only really questioned him in relation to the whole LB situation.

I don't think anyone can predict what moves he will get right and wrong, but I will be annoyed if some people criticise the selected 22 should we lose, after the fact.

[Saints43]

I don't think anyone can predict what moves he will get right and wrong, but I will be annoyed if some people criticise the selected 22 should we lose, after the fact.

Well the 22 for a GF has is selected over the whole year rather than tomorrow.

Not bringing in Baker for the Geelong or Footscray matches selects Dempster.

Selection is hard to criticise as we only see the players for a maximum two hours a week. As far as I know Baker could have come in against Geelong as it was not a knock out match or against Footscray as they were managing more unfit players than us. But, I don't know how fit Baker is. I don't know if RL sees a match up for him in the next match.

If we have an injury to a small mid or defender in the last training session would RL call Baker up?

[SainterK]

I don't think anyone can predict what moves he will get right and wrong, but I will be annoyed if some people criticise the selected 22 should we lose, after the fact.

Well the 22 for a GF has is selected over the whole year rather than tomorrow.

Not bringing in Baker for the Geelong or Footscray matches selects Dempster.

Selection is hard to criticise as we only see the players for a maximum two hours a week. As far as I know Baker could have come in against Geelong as it was not a knock out match or against Footscray as they were managing more unfit players than us. But, I don't know how fit Baker is. I don't know if RL sees a match up for him in the next match.

If we have an injury to a small mid or defender in the last training session would RL call Baker up?

It was reported that Bakes confessed to Ross at the last minute before the Geelong match, that his toe was giving him problems. I guess it's entirely possible that he was in our plans for the last 3 weeks, prior to this discussion.

If it's true, it doesn't surprise me that Baker put the team before himself, he is a class act.

[Russman]

Peake is now playing the role very well, that Lovett was supposed to play.

[rodgerfox]

What a load of shiit.


If we win on Saturday, then Ross Lyon is a hero and a champion coach.

If we lose, then he's nothing more than all the other coaches out there that have failed.


Last year people excused the loss under the nonsense of 'Geelong had a better list so we were really well coached to get as far as we did'.

This year, that excuse doesn't hold up (not that it did last year anyway).


We have a better 'list' than Collingwood. We have a fit list. We have an experienced list. We also have a list with the 'hurt' of a loss last year.


This thread is shiit. If we lose on Saturday, then Ross Lyon is as accountable as anybody.

[MCG-Unit]

To be fair, in relation to Saturdays match, people can't critique what hasn't happened yet..........

This

[cowboy18]

Lyon should go regardless of the win on Saturday.

1. Failed to play the kids.
2. Didn't teach them to man up.
3. Doesn't force them to go down the guts.



is that what we're after?

[SainterK]

To be fair, in relation to Saturdays match, people can't critique what hasn't happened yet..........

This

I also agree.

I just don't want to see 'we got it wrong at the selection table' threads the weeks following should we lose, when everyone has the benefit of hindsight after the event.

I'm curious if people would be prepared to say so beforehand.

[rodgerfox]

To be fair, in relation to Saturdays match, people can't critique what hasn't happened yet..........

This

I also agree.

I just don't want to see 'we got it wrong at the selection table' threads the weeks following should we lose, when everyone has the benefit of hindsight after the event.

I'm curious if people would be prepared to say so beforehand.

Coaches and selectors are paid serious money to get selection right.

It makes or breaks clubs' premiership chances.


To go down the path of 'the average supporter shouldn't complain about selection if they can't do better themselves' is just absolute apologetic, and naive garbage.

Coaches have to be accountable for their decisions. If they get it wrong, then they cop the heat. And rightly so.

Regardless if the armchair experts couldn't do better themselves.


Fair dinkum, what garbage.

[SainterK]

[duckduckduckgoose]

What do you think our chances are this Saturday Roger?

I for one feel very comfortable with RL at the helm.

My only concern is for the Pies smalls kicking plenty of goals.

Small defenders is the only area I think RL has neglected, hopefully we don't get exposed.

Having said that, blinkers off and I'm still tipping the Saints by 4-5 goals.

[BigMart]

Who is the total KNOB who bought me into this....I wish I could be farked going back through posts and find the numerous occasions I have said Ross Lyon is an astute coach with an enormous amount of tactical knowledge and command respect with brutal honesty and appraisal and straight forward attitude....he is easily our best coach since Jeans....

GT, Alves and Sheldon also quite successful

of course all coaches make mistakes and would be the first to admit so, but its the succeses vs the mistakes that measure them. NO coach has a 100% record.

I have been very critical of list management WRT poor trading/Draft selections....and there is obvious evidence that suggests at times they have been guilty of missing the boat in those areas....but frankly finals in 04, 05, 06, 08, 09, 10 does suggest the core from 1998-2003 drafts (Hayes, Baker, Blake, Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball, X, Dal, Goose, Joey, Goddard, Raph, Fisher) has held us in good shape. Add to that two #1 pre-season picks (Voss, Powell) and some trading successes and we have a VG side.....there could alsways have been thing better.....every club has that, and they would be disappointed with outcomes also...Ross aint perfect...

But he is for the LAST time

A Farken good AFL coach - possibly the best going around

I, on the other hand am a passionate and critical supporter.....nothing else

[sunsaint]

To be fair, in relation to Saturdays match, people can't critique what hasn't happened yet..........

This

I also agree.

I just don't want to see 'we got it wrong at the selection table' threads the weeks following should we lose, when everyone has the benefit of hindsight after the event.

I'm curious if people would be prepared to say so beforehand.

agree, especially when RL admitted he woudl have done things differently this time last year.
You cant "predict -hindsight- critique"
At this point the one thing that we can question in hindsight is player selection if that player IS NOT 100% right to go.
Many have said that Gram has not been 100% for a while(Richmond game?), but he has been selected. With NDS' back who knows, these sort of things can flare the first body on body impact. Are Kosi's ribs right?
As coach, Mick Malthouse will face exactly the same criticism if they lose and Ball/Didak goes down. And no one here will let him forget it, or cut him any slack.

[Legendary]

Who is the total KNOB who bought me into this....I wish I could be farked going back through posts and find the numerous occasions I have said Ross Lyon is an astute coach with an enormous amount of tactical knowledge and command respect with brutal honesty and appraisal and straight forward attitude....he is easily our best coach since Jeans....

GT, Alves and Sheldon also quite successful

of course all coaches make mistakes and would be the first to admit so, but its the succeses vs the mistakes that measure them. NO coach has a 100% record.

I have been very critical of list management WRT poor trading/Draft selections....and there is obvious evidence that suggests at times they have been guilty of missing the boat in those areas....but frankly finals in 04, 05, 06, 08, 09, 10 does suggest the core from 1998-2003 drafts (Hayes, Baker, Blake, Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball, X, Dal, Goose, Joey, Goddard, Raph, Fisher) has held us in good shape. Add to that two #1 pre-season picks (Voss, Powell) and some trading successes and we have a VG side.....there could alsways have been thing better.....every club has that, and they would be disappointed with outcomes also...Ross aint perfect...

But he is for the LAST time

A Farken good AFL coach - possibly the best going around

I, on the other hand am a passionate and critical supporter.....nothing else

QFT.

I remember BigMart saying on a number of occasions that he thinks Lyon is a gun coach.


No-one is perfect ... everyone deserves criticism of some sort, and I think BigMart has raised valid concerns with list management (even if I disagree with some of them).

Bit unfair to slag off a poster with such a generalisation.

[SaintPav]

Lyon should go regardless of the win on Saturday.

1. Failed to play the kids.
2. Didn't teach them to man up.
3. Doesn't force them to go down the guts.



is that what we're after?

Have you seen the film Back to the Future? It was made around 1984 and I think that is where you, your game plan and your avatar are stuck.

[joffaboy]

Lyon should go regardless of the win on Saturday.

1. Failed to play the kids.
2. Didn't teach them to man up.
3. Doesn't force them to go down the guts.



is that what we're after?

Have you seen the film Back to the Future? It was made around 1984 and I think that is where you, your game plan and your avatar are stuck.

Sounds like you have an irony deficiency n00b