Tony Lockett
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- GrumpyOne
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Tony Lockett
Was watching the Chooseday game v Sydney last night.
I had forgotten that for how massive Plugger was, he was extroardinarily fast on a lead. And what a huge advantage that his strength was in a pack.
Whilst he was no doubt the reason why we won that match, I wondered if our reliance on him at full-forward was counter-productive to our success?
His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
We made it to a GF very soon after he left us, and Sydney did not win the premiership with him in the side.
In retrospect, whilst it devastated a lot of us at the time, his departure was good for our future development. There is a parallel to the present time, when Roo's forced absence made other players stand up and win games.
I had forgotten that for how massive Plugger was, he was extroardinarily fast on a lead. And what a huge advantage that his strength was in a pack.
Whilst he was no doubt the reason why we won that match, I wondered if our reliance on him at full-forward was counter-productive to our success?
His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
We made it to a GF very soon after he left us, and Sydney did not win the premiership with him in the side.
In retrospect, whilst it devastated a lot of us at the time, his departure was good for our future development. There is a parallel to the present time, when Roo's forced absence made other players stand up and win games.
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- degruch
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Re: Tony Lockett
The season before he left, when his back injuries began to really flare up, the fact that he kick 80% of our score really started to show. In his absense we were lucky to kick 6 goals. Buckets stood up occasionally (with his kicking improving as a result), but without Plugger on the park we were going nowhere and would lose more often than not. I remember thinking, as much as it would hurt, we'd be better off without him.GrumpyOne wrote:Whilst he was no doubt the reason why we won that match, I wondered if our reliance on him at full-forward was counter-productive to our success?
His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
We made it to a GF very soon after he left us, and Sydney did not win the premiership with him in the side.
In retrospect, whilst it devastated a lot of us at the time, his departure was good for our future development. There is a parallel to the present time, when Roo's forced absence made other players stand up and win games.
So, when he left, I was neither surprised, nor devastated...it didn't take long for us to regroup and the results were nearly the ultimate rebound. Plugger's subsequent behaviour towards the club left a bad taste in many supporters' mouths (plus the fact he went from a club doing it tough to the AFL's love-child), so to not fawn over how marvellous he was for us is hardly niaivity or treason. The club stuck with him through injury and suspension, he kicked us bags of goals, so neither party owed the other anything IMO. In the end we survived without him and he went on to be the greatest goalkicker of all time. Neither party got a premiership.
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Re: Tony Lockett
We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quickly.GrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
Meanwhile Dunstall at Hawthorn had guys like Buckenara putting it on his chest every time.
the current team has 10 or 12 topliners ... back then we had four or five.
But your parallel with Riewoldt is a point well made.
Last edited by bigcarl on Wed 14 Jul 2010 12:07pm, edited 1 time in total.
- GrumpyOne
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Re: Tony Lockett
I think Plugger was unjustly painted as a traitor by some for going north.degruch wrote: Plugger's subsequent behaviour towards the club left a bad taste in many supporters' mouths (plus the fact he went from a club doing it tough to the AFL's love-child), so to not fawn over how marvellous he was for us is hardly niaivity or treason.
I was at the next table at Kelly's pub when his manager laid out the options to him at the end of that year. The Saints were cutting his money and not giving him a long contract, and he and Stan Alves were not friends. Plugger wanted to go to Collingwood and Richmond in that order, but Hession, his manager, explained that Sydney had first call, and would take him at that call. Plugger was never a bloke to conceal his feelings, and he definately did not want to go to Sydney, but he had financial obligations and could not stand out of footy for a season.
It was not a quiet discussion, and anyone present at the pub that night knew exactly what was going on.
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- degruch
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Re: Tony Lockett
Well, I had to quell the feeling he was a 'traitor' too, simply because I hated Sydney so much...imagine if he'd gone to Collingwood!GrumpyOne wrote:I think Plugger was unjustly painted as a traitor by some for going north.degruch wrote: Plugger's subsequent behaviour towards the club left a bad taste in many supporters' mouths (plus the fact he went from a club doing it tough to the AFL's love-child), so to not fawn over how marvellous he was for us is hardly niaivity or treason.
I was at the next table at Kelly's pub when his manager laid out the options to him at the end of that year. The Saints were cutting his money and not giving him a long contract, and he and Stan Alves were not friends. Plugger wanted to go to Collingwood and Richmond in that order, but Hession, his manager, explained that Sydney had first call, and would take him at that call. Plugger was never a bloke to conceal his feelings, and he definately did not want to go to Sydney, but he had financial obligations and could not stand out of footy for a season.
It was not a quiet discussion, and anyone present at the pub that night knew exactly what was going on.
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
The most relevant point about the Sydney move, it was (and still is) removed from the kind of scrutiny that led Mick Thomas to write "Monday's Experts"...that song was supposedly inspired by Plugger. For a quiet guy who hated the media attention, the move was almost tailor made.
- B W and R all over
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The other thing that isn't really common knowledge but was a huge factor was that Plugger had been severely ripped off by his previous manager and had barely a cracker to his name.
He was about to turn 29 and with his history of injuries probably realised he'd only have a limited amount of time and that he was unlikely to make much money outside of footy considering his hatred of the spotlight.
Urban legend has it that he was in tears in Alves' office, saying he didn't want to leave but simply had no choice.
You have to consider that the Swans had AFL backing and could offer him the world, whereas we were so broke we were about to launch the Save Our Saints fundraising mission.
He was about to turn 29 and with his history of injuries probably realised he'd only have a limited amount of time and that he was unlikely to make much money outside of footy considering his hatred of the spotlight.
Urban legend has it that he was in tears in Alves' office, saying he didn't want to leave but simply had no choice.
You have to consider that the Swans had AFL backing and could offer him the world, whereas we were so broke we were about to launch the Save Our Saints fundraising mission.
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Re: Tony Lockett
And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
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Re: Tony Lockett
Grant was a good hbf, true, and yes, McAdam had his moments of brilliance.Superboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
But we did have some complete spuds. I won't name names. They know who they are.
Also, we weren't as professionally run as a club or as well coached and drilled as we are today.
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Re: Tony Lockett
Absolutely agree!bigcarl wrote:Grant was a good hbf, true, and yes, McAdam had his moments of brilliance.Superboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
But we did have some complete spuds. I won't name names. They know who they are.
Also, we weren't as professionally run as a club or as well coached and drilled as we are today.
- saintbrat
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Must be Plugger week
just read this story in Inside football online
[quote]RHYS: You dumped Jacko and another full forward Mark Scott by the middle of 1983. You gave a kid named Lockett a go. Not a bad move.
JEWELL: Plugger was a reluctant recruit. He didn’t care whether he stayed at Ballarat or played for us. He and Rod Owen were at a training camp down at Anglesea and all the prospective players from the area were there. I went to Lockett and Rod Owen and said that they could be League players next year. I remember Lockett saying “Why would I want to play with those big heads?â€
just read this story in Inside football online
[quote]RHYS: You dumped Jacko and another full forward Mark Scott by the middle of 1983. You gave a kid named Lockett a go. Not a bad move.
JEWELL: Plugger was a reluctant recruit. He didn’t care whether he stayed at Ballarat or played for us. He and Rod Owen were at a training camp down at Anglesea and all the prospective players from the area were there. I went to Lockett and Rod Owen and said that they could be League players next year. I remember Lockett saying “Why would I want to play with those big heads?â€
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Re: Tony Lockett
depth hahSuperboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
Peter Everitt, Shane Wakelin, Jamie Shanahan, Tim Pekin, Justin Peckett, O'Brian, Craig Davenport, Mickey Dywer, LAZAAAAR
and you have all forgotten Danny Frawley.
It was a good side, the problem was StKilda had the BEST social club/disco.
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Re: Tony Lockett
That is just another myth. Well and truely shut by then.sunsaint wrote:depth hahSuperboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
Peter Everitt, Shane Wakelin, Jamie Shanahan, Tim Pekin, Justin Peckett, O'Brian, Craig Davenport, Mickey Dywer, LAZAAAAR
and you have all forgotten Danny Frawley.
It was a good side, the problem was StKilda had the BEST social club/disco.
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[quote]Lockett didn’t set the house on fire at first, but we played a practice match against Collingwood at Horsham and Owen kicked seven goals up til half time. Stewie came down and said “Get him off the ground. Hide him!â€
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i remember when the club gave jacko the heave ho...said it wouldn't matter they had a ready made fullforward in the ressies...and they did too......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: Tony Lockett
I'm talking about a slightly earlier era and wonder whether we might have overrated a few of them at the time.plugger66 wrote:sunsaint wrote:depth hahSuperboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
Peter Everitt, Shane Wakelin, Jamie Shanahan, Tim Pekin, Justin Peckett, O'Brian, Craig Davenport, Mickey Dywer, LAZAAAAR
and you have all forgotten Danny Frawley.
It was a good side, the problem was StKilda had the BEST social club/disco.
You're right about Frawley, though. A very good full back.
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Re: Tony Lockett
Bingham, Bourke, A Carr, Hollow, A Harvey, Frost, S Jones, Shaw, Stooper, Taylor...bigcarl wrote:Grant was a good hbf, true, and yes, McAdam had his moments of brilliance.Superboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
But we did have some complete spuds. I won't name names. They know who they are.
Also, we weren't as professionally run as a club or as well coached and drilled as we are today.
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Re: Tony Lockett
Schillaci wrote:Bingham, Bourke, A Carr, Hollow, A Harvey, Frost, S Jones, Shaw, Stooper, Taylor...bigcarl wrote:Grant was a good hbf, true, and yes, McAdam had his moments of brilliance.Superboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
But we did have some complete spuds. I won't name names. They know who they are.
Also, we weren't as professionally run as a club or as well coached and drilled as we are today.
... and you could go on.
in lockett's early years ... 1983-86 ... very few from that team would crack a game today.
barker, of course, burns ... maybe joffa or eel. sarau? great player then but too short to ruck since they changed the centre bounce rules.
grant, frawley and owen were just kids.
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Re: Tony Lockett
but if you go down that path you would have to include lockett into that group.bigcarl wrote:
in lockett's early years ... 1983-86 ... very few from that team would crack a game today.
Didnt chase, no discipline, disliked training he relied on his natural talent,
and
lets face it he would never have passed the draft camp skin fold test.
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Re: Tony Lockett
Agreed that very few would be up to it.bigcarl wrote:Schillaci wrote:Bingham, Bourke, A Carr, Hollow, A Harvey, Frost, S Jones, Shaw, Stooper, Taylor...bigcarl wrote:Grant was a good hbf, true, and yes, McAdam had his moments of brilliance.Superboot wrote:And Grant and McAdam!bigcarl wrote:We weren't great in the depth department. After Plugger, Harvs, Winmar, Loewe and Burke it fell away pretty quicklyGrumpyOne wrote:His presence virtually demanded that the ball be kicked to him at every opportunity, with a possible result that we did not develop too many other pathways to goal.
But we did have some complete spuds. I won't name names. They know who they are.
Also, we weren't as professionally run as a club or as well coached and drilled as we are today.
... and you could go on.
in lockett's early years ... 1983-86 ... very few from that team would crack a game today.
barker, of course, burns ... maybe joffa or eel. sarau? great player then but too short to ruck since they changed the centre bounce rules.
grant, frawley and owen were just kids.
They were tough years but we endured...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...we will always have the red , white and black in our veins and hopefully this year's premiership (fingers and toes crossed) will be all the more sweeter for us die hard fans.
Re: Tony Lockett
Well luckily for the footy world they didnt have that stuff then. Also not many forwards did all that stuff back then. Dont compare todays footy to then.sunsaint wrote:but if you go down that path you would have to include lockett into that group.bigcarl wrote:
in lockett's early years ... 1983-86 ... very few from that team would crack a game today.
Didnt chase, no discipline, disliked training he relied on his natural talent,
and
lets face it he would never have passed the draft camp skin fold test.
...no...still think i'm right and that you...as usual...are wrong....plugger66 wrote:I think Travis Clokes uncle, Peter Cameron umpired his last game. Stinger are you going to apologise?stinger wrote:i remember when the club gave jacko the heave ho...said it wouldn't matter they had a ready made fullforward in the ressies...and they did too......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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no matter what happened or what is said ...it is a damn shame and blight on the game that such a champion would leave his club.
as it is for any other champ to leave their club.
It was soul destroying for so many supporters at a club who had suffered so much loss over the years.
I will never be able to accept it.
Damn Shame.
PS: how he could show his contempt for Sydney and it's supporters one minute and then in such a short time show his affection for them is just too much too cop for me. Lockett can get stuffed...I was one his biggest fans. It changed the way I look at the game.
as it is for any other champ to leave their club.
It was soul destroying for so many supporters at a club who had suffered so much loss over the years.
I will never be able to accept it.
Damn Shame.
PS: how he could show his contempt for Sydney and it's supporters one minute and then in such a short time show his affection for them is just too much too cop for me. Lockett can get stuffed...I was one his biggest fans. It changed the way I look at the game.
Last edited by The Fireman on Wed 14 Jul 2010 10:46pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tony Lockett
let's face it. he'd be a champ in any era.sunsaint wrote:lets face it he would never have passed the draft camp skin fold test.