it's the one position that stands out as us having the luxury of a few options but none of them really to this point cementing their name as a certainty when team sheets are written.
MCEVOY - real ruckman? raw and can only get better but has progrssed slower than expected by most this year. is he a forward as rarely even in magoos has a great hitout ratio? how will he go in SEPT.?
KING - strong at hitouts but around the ground will struggle against more agile and quick opposition as age has caught up to him along with injuries
KOSCHITZKE - required down forward for structure but can impose for short bursts in ruck and free himself up. but will he be strong enough at centre bounces while GARDINER can rest
STANLEY - tall and agile and fast but seen as a forward first
so shall we go down the MAGPIES route and have luxury of a second ruckman also as a switch forward like KOSI and have more versatility in our best 22? what do you think?
who is our best SECOND RUCKMAN?
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Stanley and McEvoy will be great ruckmen. Hopefully get one more year out of MG and perfect transitiion into Stanley.bobmurray wrote:Who is our first Ruckman when Gardiner and King go....
is he at our club at the moment...maybe we are loaded with 2nd string ruckmen and will have to go searching for our future ruck star....
Agree...plugger66 wrote:Stanley and McEvoy will be great ruckmen. Hopefully get one more year out of MG and perfect transitiion into Stanley.bobmurray wrote:Who is our first Ruckman when Gardiner and King go....
is he at our club at the moment...maybe we are loaded with 2nd string ruckmen and will have to go searching for our future ruck star....
Still like Kosi rotating through there in bursts, nice to give Gardiner a break at times without losing the ascendency while Ben develops.
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WinnersOnly
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If they rest Gardiner tonight we will see...
If they rest Gardiner tonight we will see who will be our second ruckman going into the finals. IMO Pattison gave us a bit last week and from his Sandringham results he matches KING in tapouts so he we might just find he goes ahead of McEvoy.
I agree with other posters suggesting McEvoy's development has been disappointingly slow. IMO I dont think he has improved his ruck work at all. He cant jump, he allows his opponent to out position him and he is slow and lacks urgency around the ground. At least Pattison looks to haveba bit of life in him and we know he can be aggressive.
If we had someone ready at full forward - KOSI is a natural second ruckman. With 8 games to go before the finals I would like the selectors to give someone else a run at full forward eg Walsh, Stanley or rotate he and Pattison through there. IMO KOSI will win us matches playing on the ball and really lift the team - whcih he wont do at full forward.
I agree with other posters suggesting McEvoy's development has been disappointingly slow. IMO I dont think he has improved his ruck work at all. He cant jump, he allows his opponent to out position him and he is slow and lacks urgency around the ground. At least Pattison looks to haveba bit of life in him and we know he can be aggressive.
If we had someone ready at full forward - KOSI is a natural second ruckman. With 8 games to go before the finals I would like the selectors to give someone else a run at full forward eg Walsh, Stanley or rotate he and Pattison through there. IMO KOSI will win us matches playing on the ball and really lift the team - whcih he wont do at full forward.
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Bernard Shakey
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Spot on p66. Jamar was rookied in 2001 draft and debuted in 2003. Big blokes take a long time to mature and develop. McEvoy will be good for us.plugger66 wrote:Mark Jamar.Saint Bev wrote:I feel it is a weakness as Ben is taking a long time to develop.
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Apart from Kreuzer who himself is a freak and was fast tracked, there are very few younger ruckmen doing better than Ben.
The standout would be Mitch Clark who was drafted in 05. Dominated last year but hasn't been nearly as good this year, could be injured, I don't have a clue.
NickNat is ridiculously overrated and sure he can jump high but thats about it.
Can't really think of any younger ruckmen doing better than Ben at this stage.
Neither he nor Rhys will probably peak for another 4-6 years. Which is a shame cos 2 dominant ruckmen would be pretty handy right now. But don't worry I think our ruck stocks are in a pretty good condition now, and for the future.
The standout would be Mitch Clark who was drafted in 05. Dominated last year but hasn't been nearly as good this year, could be injured, I don't have a clue.
NickNat is ridiculously overrated and sure he can jump high but thats about it.
Can't really think of any younger ruckmen doing better than Ben at this stage.
Neither he nor Rhys will probably peak for another 4-6 years. Which is a shame cos 2 dominant ruckmen would be pretty handy right now. But don't worry I think our ruck stocks are in a pretty good condition now, and for the future.
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Goose is king
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On ability alone I think Gardiner and King are our best rucks. Kosi plays more of a forward but is also up there.
McEvoy is being selected ahead of King based on rucking potential I think; King is clearly better in the hitouts, but McEvoy offers more in the forward line.
McEvoy is being selected ahead of King based on rucking potential I think; King is clearly better in the hitouts, but McEvoy offers more in the forward line.
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bigcarl
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Re: If they rest Gardiner tonight we will see...
On his finals performances last year you have a point. His main value as a forward seems to be in bringing the ball to ground for the little guys and providing a contested marking contest.WinnersOnly wrote:IMO KOSI will win us matches playing on the ball and really lift the team - whcih he wont do at full forward.
In his favor he kicked 48 goals last season. Against him, he's been averaging about a goal a game this season and failed to impact in the 2009 finals.
It's a tough one. The best option would be Goddard, but he's so valuable around the ground I wouldn't expect to see it.
Stanley is very promising, but hasn't shown a lot in terms of goals on the board so far. Same goes for Walsh and Pattison and Gwilt.
Milne was our main go to man in Roo's absence, but has something to prove in terms of finals.
Riewoldt dragged us through the finals almost single handedly last season, kicking bags against Collingwood and the Bulldogs.
Someone else must stand up. Steven looks a likely type as a medium forward. His three goals in three minutes against Geelong sealed the deal for me.
One suggestion is that Roo plays deeper as a true FF and Kosi goes to CHF. This would give other players the option of going over his head for goal if he is being double or triple teamed.
And the smalls and mids could feed off Kosi's crumbs from contested marks at chf.
We have a bit of time to experiment to have something that works in September.
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mad saint guy
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Second best ruckman and best second ruckman are two very different things.
Gardiner is our best number one ruckman followed by King. Those two are the only ones who can really give us an edge in the ruck contests, however King doesn't do enough around the ground to warrant a spot if he isn't contesting the majority of the hitouts. Kosi is needed up forward and can't be relied on to be the regular second ruckman, which leaves McEvoy and Pattison competing for the second ruck spot (Stanley won't be put under the physical pressure of rucking this early unless absolutely necessary). Pattison may have an edge in mobility, experience and possibly ruckwork, but McEvoy has much better skills, contested marking and has much more improvement left in him.
Our current ruck stocks IMO are
Number one ruckman
1 - Gardiner
2 - King
Number two ruckman
1 - McEvoy
2 - Pattison
3 - Stanley
Kosi to have occasional bursts in the ruck, Gaertner and McGrath the absolute emergencies in case of a freak accident in the clubrooms involving an axe flying through the air at 198cm high, decapitating the rest of our ruckmen.
Gardiner is our best number one ruckman followed by King. Those two are the only ones who can really give us an edge in the ruck contests, however King doesn't do enough around the ground to warrant a spot if he isn't contesting the majority of the hitouts. Kosi is needed up forward and can't be relied on to be the regular second ruckman, which leaves McEvoy and Pattison competing for the second ruck spot (Stanley won't be put under the physical pressure of rucking this early unless absolutely necessary). Pattison may have an edge in mobility, experience and possibly ruckwork, but McEvoy has much better skills, contested marking and has much more improvement left in him.
Our current ruck stocks IMO are
Number one ruckman
1 - Gardiner
2 - King
Number two ruckman
1 - McEvoy
2 - Pattison
3 - Stanley
Kosi to have occasional bursts in the ruck, Gaertner and McGrath the absolute emergencies in case of a freak accident in the clubrooms involving an axe flying through the air at 198cm high, decapitating the rest of our ruckmen.
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saintsRrising
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Saint Bev wrote:I feel it is a weakness as Ben is taking a long time to develop.
Disagree as Ben is taking the normal amount of time to develop.
Take Sandliands...dominating now, but wasa gumby early on...
With ruckman mass is important to them...and this in part is why they bloom later.
The other big reason is that ruckwork isa real art and takes many years to master.
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