could we win the flag without riewoldt?

bigcarl · Post: # 939043Post **bigcarl** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:19am

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/p ... 5877235094

From their At The Bar column

MARK ROBINSON: Don't discount the Saints, who have shown what a terrific organisation they are, led by the coach. He lost Lovett, lost Riewoldt, couldn't kick a goal, has Kosi criticism to deal with every week, and his team sits 8-3 - not a bad effort.

DARYL TIMMS: Is it a convincing 8-3?

MARK ROBINSON: You can only beat your opponent every week. With Riewoldt back in four weeks, they are a genuine threat. Without, they are a genuine non-threat.

Personally I agree with Robinson. Our ability to consistently kick winning scores against quality opposition without Riewoldt is the big question mark.

manoffewwords · Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:21am

plugger66 · Post: # 939045Post **plugger66** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:22am

No. He is in the top 3 players in the AFL and probably the most important to any club in the AFL. We can go a fair way without him but unless other clubs are missing their champs then I cant see it.

markp · Post: # 939046Post **markp** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:24am

Nope.

Same goes for BJ and Lenny.

bigred · Post: # 939048Post **bigred** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:28am

No

But maybe.

If we could ninja it.

Wouldn't surprise me if we made it to the show without him.

degruch · Post: # 939050Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:31am

Sure, why not? Anyone can see we have been playing well below or capabilities for almost the entire season, there's a lot of improvement left in our current 8-3 team, no reason why we couldn't continue to win. Didn't we kick 8 goals against North before Roo even got a kick? Not bad for a non-threat.

degruch · Post: # 939051Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:31am

bigred wrote:If we could ninja it.

Hawthorn.

bigred · Post: # 939052Post **bigred** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:35am

degruch wrote:
bigred wrote:If we could ninja it.
Hawthorn.

Exactly.

We cant help it if everyone else falls over.

joffaboy · Post: # 939054Post **joffaboy** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:36am

Almost won it without him last season.

degruch · Post: # 939055Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:36am

bigred wrote:
degruch wrote:
bigred wrote:If we could ninja it.
Hawthorn.
Exactly.

We cant help it if everyone else falls over.

Well, the way Geelong's starting to travel with injuries this year, a Bradbury victory is always on the cards. Besides, if Collingwood's current squad is considered the threat, then so should our current squad.

Dis Believer · Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:38am

joffaboy wrote:Almost won it without him last season.

Yeah but he was still in the structure, the opposition still had to structure around him being there, and he was influentiual in us actually being there.

We can win games without him, but it's the critical 50/50 games against quality opponents where the true value of someone like Roo comes to the fore.

roxanne · Post: # 939058Post **roxanne** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:43am

It's ridiculous to say we almost won it without him last year.
We wouldn't have got there without him! He almost single-handedly dragged us through the finals. Not a snowflakes chance in hell if Nick doesn't come back fit and firing. For the record, I believe he will.

degruch · Post: # 939060Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:45am

roxanne wrote:It's ridiculous to say we almost won it without him last year.
We wouldn't have got there without him! He almost single-handedly dragged us through the finals. Not a snowflakes chance in hell if Nick doesn't come back fit and firing. For the record, I believe he will.

Even if he does come back this season, I doubt he'll be 'fit and firing' before the finals, so this team will need to get us there. Confident?

Thinline · Post: # 939063Post **Thinline** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:49am

We can and will.

You heard it here first.

8 and 3 and improving up forward each outing without him.

Fuc-in' doomsdayers. You bore me.

roxanne · Post: # 939064Post **roxanne** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:50am

We'll definitely make the finals. I think we'll definitely make top four. How far we'd go without Nick is the question. Not very, I fear. However if we can believe the messages coming out of the club, he'll be on the ground sooner rather than later - he won't be 'fit and firing' at the get go but I do believe he
will be ready for the finals. I know he'll do everything possible to make it happen. I'd also like to know what's happening with Jason Gram. He is also very important to our chances.

degruch · Post: # 939067Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:56am

roxanne wrote:I'd also like to know what's happening with Jason Gram. He is also very important to our chances.

If Kosi was firing, Gram would be our major concern, IMO. Not much use having Roo there if the supply is cut off. We've only just started improving our delivery forward, thanks to a few guys stepping up...that's been the best thing about this whole scenario, seeing guys begin to rise to the task.

People like Robbo don't sit and review St Kilda's list and it's potential for improvement, they generally comment on what they see...so writing us off without Roo represents the kind of indepth analysis most opposition supporters would apply to us (i.e. not much).

Legendary · Post: # 939071Post **Legendary** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:59am

We're still a Preliminary finalist without him.

As we all know, anything can happen in a Prelim. Form, fitness, personnel go out the window, it comes down to who is better on the day.

Riewoldt gives us the class and match winning ability that wins you games like Prelim finals.

We could still win one without him, but it would be a lot harder.

markp · Post: # 939072Post **markp** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:59am

Thinline wrote:We can and will.

You heard it here first.

So Roo's not coming back?

Saintsfan · Post: # 939076Post **Saintsfan** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:01am

We will have to enjoy our customary Preliminary Final heartbreak if Riewoldt does not return.

It's okay though, I'm kind of getting used to it.

samoht · Post: # 939079Post **samoht** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:03am

There's a few games to go - who knows how other teams shape up come the finals and what injuries they sustain.

It comes down to luck at the end - Geelong for instance won't win it without Chapman and Ablett.

Even when Roo comes back Kosi still needs to hold his marks - just 5 inside 50 marks each game will do... and we need everyone else to be fit.

Beekay · Post: # 939084Post **Beekay** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:09am

It would require Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna & Gram to produce their very best each week of the finals.... and kick long goals every quarter of every game.

Can't see that happening.

I believe we could make a fist of any game we played.

We need Riewoldt... not only for fire power and structure, but for leadership and the installation of confidence he can give to players like Kosi, McQualter... hopefully Peake.

samoht · Post: # 939087Post **samoht** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:15am

Just digressing to emphasise how much luck comes into play ..

Geelong would be 10 goal worse off without Chapman and Ablett... they'd kick 5 less goals and have 5 more goals kicked against them.

Collingwood could probably cope better if they lost 2 of their best players... as a lot of their good players seem to disappear come the finals anyway.

This year ..
we can't afford Kosi and Milne to disappear come our finals and just leave it up to Roo... everyone needs to contribute.

bigcarl · Post: # 939088Post **bigcarl** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:22am

i actually think we could still win it without him, but not without a dangerous key forward.

if he were not to come back, i'd have goddard to ff in an instant. how we'd cover him around the ground, god only knows, but we'd need to find a way.

perhaps raph could produce a miracle in the midfield

samoht · Post: # 939092Post **samoht** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:34am

Bigcarl .. the Goddard discussion is better elsewhere however

I'm convinced Goddard is better utilised as a midfielder who pushes forward - i.e. like he is presently.

That way he's still winning his 30 midfield possessions , setting up goals as only he can with his long accurate passes and also kicking a few himself when he overpowers his midfield opponent when he occasionally pushes forward.

Goddard is probably worth 7 team goals to us directly and indirectly each week by playing this role. .. there's 4 more goals kicked directly and indirectly from his passes and occasional forays forward plus there's 3 goals less kicked against us due to his midfield presence.

Whereas ..there's a risk that a good defender may keep Goddard out of the game... in a game of %s that would be a risk.

bigcarl · Post: # 939098Post **bigcarl** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:47am

samoht wrote:Bigcarl .. the Goddard discussion is better elsewhere .

on the contrary. this is exactly the place for it.

we are missing one of the best key forwards in the competition and logically one would think we need to replace quality with quality to be a flag threat.

we were fourth in total scoring last season. so far this season we are ninth.

kosi has taken 9 marks inside 50 this season and kicked nine goals in 8 matches.

stanley is a promising kid with two goals to his name.

milne's one of my favourites, but i'm not sure we could bank on him to kick us a winning score in big finals.

the mids can contribute goals, but can they do it regularly enough?

ross has made it pretty clear that he thinks we cannot afford to send bj forward, so i'm not expecting it to happen. he may well be right.

it's just my own personal solution.

i can't continue this discussion atm because i'm at work, but will look forward to getting back to it at some stage this evening.