which / when was this free kick

saintbrat · Post: # 939036Post **saintbrat** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 9:33am

In a review of weekend umpiring, Gieschen confirmed frees involving St Kilda's Adam Schneider, Brisbane Lion Simon Black, Collingwood's Leon Davis, Western Bulldog Adam Cooney and Essendon's Courtenay Dempsey should not have been paid.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/o ... 5877201667

plugger66 · Post: # 939038Post **plugger66** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 9:42am

When Lenny kicked the ball and it was definately going through the goals and for some strange reason Schneider tried to mark it and dropped it and was paid a free for in the back that certainly didnt look like was there and has now been confirmed.

Finna · Post: # 939041Post **Finna** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:02am

plugger66 wrote:When Lenny kicked the ball and it was definately going through the goals and for some strange reason Schneider tried to mark it and dropped it and was paid a free for in the back that certainly didnt look like was there and has now been confirmed.

Agree wasn't a free kick but still nice to see schneider get one whether it was there or not

degruch · Post: # 939047Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 10:26am

This is further to my comments yesterday, that JG needs to be more open in his communication re: umpiring performances and what they plan to do about it. What is the follow up procedure from these reviews?

To start with, I hope Simon Black gets his money refunded, because his abuse was obviously correct.

If, as everyone knows, Scott McLaren and Razor Ray are the worst umpires in the league, what are they still doing there? Or has the entire football watching public got it wrong? They are certainly the most experienced, does practice not make perfect?

The truth is, they come from the old 'never wrong' brigade and should have been either pensioned off by now.

stinger · Post: # 939074Post **stinger** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:00am

degruch wrote:This is further to my comments yesterday, that JG needs to be more open in his communication re: umpiring performances and what they plan to do about it. What is the follow up procedure from these reviews?

To start with, I hope Simon Black gets his money refunded, because his abuse was obviously correct.

If, as everyone knows, Scott McLaren and Razor Ray are the worst umpires in the league, what are they still doing there? Or has the entire football watching public got it wrong? They are certainly the most experienced, does practice not make perfect?

The truth is, they come from the old 'never wrong' brigade and should have been either pensioned off by now.

abuse is abuse.....fine is warranted....provocation is not an excuse or a defence.....

rodgerfox · Post: # 939075Post **rodgerfox** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:00am

They need to take the approach of 'shiit happens'.

This pretend meticulous approach to umpiring is just a joke.

To come out and 'officially' declare decisions incorrect, means they are telling us that over 8 matches of footy, over 800 minutes of football, that the brilliant umpiring fraternity in all their perfectness - only got 4 things wrong.

What a f***ing load a shiit.

If Geischen just said "yeah, of course we made mistakes. It happens, we try hard to get it right but the reality is we don't.", then I reckon most supporters would just shrug it off and not really care.

It's this overinflated self-generated sense of importance and perfectness that give people the irrits.

The reality is, they are the least important people in the game. What ever happened to the saying "you know they've done a good job when you don't notice them"?
They seem to want to 'outsmart' the players in almost every contest with ridiculous technicalities.

Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.

degruch · Post: # 939077Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:01am

stinger wrote:
degruch wrote:This is further to my comments yesterday, that JG needs to be more open in his communication re: umpiring performances and what they plan to do about it. What is the follow up procedure from these reviews?

To start with, I hope Simon Black gets his money refunded, because his abuse was obviously correct.

If, as everyone knows, Scott McLaren and Razor Ray are the worst umpires in the league, what are they still doing there? Or has the entire football watching public got it wrong? They are certainly the most experienced, does practice not make perfect?

The truth is, they come from the old 'never wrong' brigade and should have been either pensioned off by now.

abuse is abuse.....fine is warranted....provocation is not an excuse or a defence.....

F@$k off.

rodgerfox · Post: # 939078Post **rodgerfox** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:02am

degruch wrote:
If, as everyone knows, Scott McLaren and Razor Ray are the worst umpires in the league, what are they still doing there? Or has the entire football watching public got it wrong? They are certainly the most experienced, does practice not make perfect?

Mcburney is up there with Mclaren.

Massive egos who seem to feel left out if they're not blowing their whistles at every single contest.

Vozzo also can be added to that group.

The fact that I know their names is a problem in itself. We shouldn't even notice their existence in the game.

degruch · Post: # 939080Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:04am

rodgerfox wrote:Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.

Couldn't agree more with this one.

FWIW, I don't care if they make mistakes, as long as they address consistant areas of concern...such as Lethal's article this morning.

OneEyedSainter77 · Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:07am

rodgerfox wrote:
Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.

The most intelligent thing I have ever read from you on this forum RF - agree completely.

joffaboy · Post: # 939100Post **joffaboy** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:51am

rodgerfox wrote:They need to take the approach of 'shiit happens'.

This pretend meticulous approach to umpiring is just a joke.

To come out and 'officially' declare decisions incorrect, means they are telling us that over 8 matches of footy, over 800 minutes of football, that the brilliant umpiring fraternity in all their perfectness - only got 4 things wrong.

What a f***ing load a shiit.

If Geischen just said "yeah, of course we made mistakes. It happens, we try hard to get it right but the reality is we don't.", then I reckon most supporters would just shrug it off and not really care.

It's this overinflated self-generated sense of importance and perfectness that give people the irrits.

The reality is, they are the least important people in the game. What ever happened to the saying "you know they've done a good job when you don't notice them"?
They seem to want to 'outsmart' the players in almost every contest with ridiculous technicalities.

Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.

You got sacked from SEN for these type of comments Grant. Be careful the AFL doesn't censor saintsational.

joffaboy · Post: # 939103Post **joffaboy** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 12:00pm

OneEyedSainter77 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.
The most intelligent thing I have ever read from you on this forum RF - agree completely.

Yes it is sensible, and it would be a good move.

However when you have a bloke running the umpiring tell an AFL coach that the umpires signal the holding the ball in such a theatrical fashion was "because the fans love it", you have a real problem of perception of who the fans actually come to see.

The umpires, in many cases are not to blame. they are abused for rules they are made to intrepret in such as a way (such as the current stack on the mil, holding the ball farce) that is at odds with the very essence of the game.

Two spring to mind immediately.

1) holding the ball. the man making the play is always pinged when three or four players jump on and hold the ball in. Always thought the first rule of footy was to go for the ball, but this intrepretation penalises the player for doing this.

2) High contact. Any contact is high even if a player ducks their head (in most cases). This means players now dive in head first for the ball trying to draw the free. Head clashes are far more prevelant now because of the change of rule, something the rule was supposed to be designed to do was to protect the head.

I am sure there are a myriad other changes made by the incompetent Geishen and his monkey Anderson that haven't been thought through and the application drives the punters insane.

Ice Wolf · Post: # 939144Post **Ice Wolf** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 1:34pm

So they admit 5 mistakes for free kicks that were paid, what about all the mistakes for blatant free kicks that are missed.

I would guess that the Umpiring department feels that it you can only make a mistake if you actually pay a free, not giving a free is never wrong.

saint3d · Post: # 939172Post **saint3d** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 2:39pm

rodgerfox wrote:Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.

http://www.shutupmrumpire.com.au/

Tell your friends!

kosifantutti23 · Wed 09 Jun 2010 3:41pm

Definite free.

Hayes was driven into the ground after disposing of the ball. Should have been a free down field to Schneider.

Sometimes two wrongs do make a right.

avid · Post: # 939201Post **avid** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 4:03pm

rodgerfox wrote:They need to take the approach of 'shiit happens'.

This pretend meticulous approach to umpiring is just a joke.

To come out and 'officially' declare decisions incorrect, means they are telling us that over 8 matches of footy, over 800 minutes of football, that the brilliant umpiring fraternity in all their perfectness - only got 4 things wrong.

What a f***ing load a shiit.

If Geischen just said "yeah, of course we made mistakes. It happens, we try hard to get it right but the reality is we don't.", then I reckon most supporters would just shrug it off and not really care.

It's this overinflated self-generated sense of importance and perfectness that give people the irrits.

The reality is, they are the least important people in the game. What ever happened to the saying "you know they've done a good job when you don't notice them"?
They seem to want to 'outsmart' the players in almost every contest with ridiculous technicalities.

Get the numbers off their backs, get rid of the microphones, and make their influence and profile as minimal as possible.

What's the problem with them publicly acknowledging that some of their rulings are incorrect? Would you prefer them not to comment, and leave them just as glaring inconsistencies with no guide as to which way the umpires think the rule should be applied?

I heard somewhere (probably here) that the umpires aim at about an 87% correct decision rate. Well, I'm sure they aim at 100%, but 87% is taken as a reasonable humanly-possible outcome. That means we actually do need to accept imperfection. People who rant on and on about umpires being f**kwits, or even corrupt, for getting things wrong on occasion may as well complain about the oval ball bouncing imperfectly too.

No one yells louder at the umpires for wrong (anti-saints) decisions than me, bit getting 1 in 8 decisions wrong probably isn't a bad average for high pressure snap decisions and judgment calls. Calm down.

Mr Magic · Post: # 939205Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 4:17pm

How about they start only paying the ones they see, instead of guessing?

If they don't see it, then they shouldn't pay it.

saint vince · Wed 09 Jun 2010 5:36pm

How about the herald sun does a two page spread with every mistake every player made over the weekend.

On second thoughts how about they do a 300 page spread on it.

Player make as many mistakes as umpires probably more.

Just deal with it part of the game.

Dr Spaceman · Wed 09 Jun 2010 5:38pm

saint vince wrote:How about the herald sun does a two page spread with every mistake every player made over the weekend.

On second thoughts how about they do a 300 page spread on it.

Player make as many mistakes as umpires probably more.

Just deal with it part of the game.

I made a mistake at a game once.

Ended up with a lite beer!!!

degruch · Post: # 939228Post **degruch** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 5:46pm

saint vince wrote:How about the herald sun does a two page spread with every mistake every player made over the weekend.

On second thoughts how about they do a 300 page spread on it.

Player make as many mistakes as umpires probably more.

Just deal with it part of the game.

If a player on our team came out and said 'Bugger me, I missed 7 shots at goal, the last shot I didn't even make contact with the ball, bwahahahahaa! Still get paid though' would you like them to explain how they intend to improve? Or would you prefer they are dropped?? Sacked??? Umpires should be subject to the same scrutiny too.

SainterK · Post: # 939230Post **SainterK** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 5:48pm

I actually care very little if umpires make mistakes, you won't see me on here despairing over poor umpiring decisions, we are all human.

The umpire thought Schneider was pushed in the back, so he didn't hesitate and paid it. Incorrect, but decisive.

However I say let Overland take a break for his blatant guesswork when officating the Lions v North match, that is unacceptable.

saint vince · Wed 09 Jun 2010 6:45pm

degruch wrote:
saint vince wrote:How about the herald sun does a two page spread with every mistake every player made over the weekend.

On second thoughts how about they do a 300 page spread on it.

Player make as many mistakes as umpires probably more.

Just deal with it part of the game.
If a player on our team came out and said 'Bugger me, I missed 7 shots at goal, the last shot I didn't even make contact with the ball, bwahahahahaa! Still get paid though' would you like them to explain how they intend to improve? Or would you prefer they are dropped?? Sacked??? Umpires should be subject to the same scrutiny too.

I have yet to see something about one umpire making seven blatantly wrong decisions. If he did I am sure he would be dropped. However I would think that at least one or two players every week would have 7 clangers and keep getting a game.

plugger66 · Post: # 939263Post **plugger66** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 7:23pm

86% right so they get 14% wrong on average every week. That means there are about 25 wrong a week so it seems they are counting the ways paid incorrectly and the ones not paid.

rodgerfox · Post: # 939276Post **rodgerfox** » Wed 09 Jun 2010 7:42pm

saint vince wrote:
I have yet to see something about one umpire making seven blatantly wrong decisions. If he did I am sure he would be dropped. However I would think that at least one or two players every week would have 7 clangers and keep getting a game.

How does dropping an umpire help?

Wrote for Luck · Wed 09 Jun 2010 7:52pm

If they always got it right I'd have nothing to enjoy screaming about. Reckon the remove the microphone suggestion is spot on. Players have critical error stats. But don't think umpires should have same, but should be quietly dropped to magoos. Why are some umpires so insecure about losing 'control' of a game?