Obviously very speculative, but just wondering people's individual opinions on which teams are genuine contenders at this stage in the season. I'd say the Saints and Cats are still the primary two, followed by the Dogs, and I'm just not convinced by the Pies like the rest of the football world seem to be. They just can't seem to win games that really count over the last eighteen months, but they look brilliant against teams that don't matter.
What's thoughts on any obvious choices/smokeys/teams you're not convinced about yet/under performers that might storm home or anything at all about this years flag you're thinking of.
Genuine premiership contenders?
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too early to tell
have a look at tonights results. Brisbane could have won despite losing most of their tall players to injury. Saints treading water without roo. Cats not at their best without some of their stars.
Right now the pies and dockers are the form sides. Not convinced about sydney, good side but can they match the top 4 sides.
Brisbane relies on their big forwards too much and are struggling to find fit talls.
Feo looked very good and have some stars in pav, hill, mundy and barlow. But they play alot alike the dogs in that they have a few downhill skiers.
Dogs will implode. Will make the finals most likely but struggle to make top four.
have a look at tonights results. Brisbane could have won despite losing most of their tall players to injury. Saints treading water without roo. Cats not at their best without some of their stars.
Right now the pies and dockers are the form sides. Not convinced about sydney, good side but can they match the top 4 sides.
Brisbane relies on their big forwards too much and are struggling to find fit talls.
Feo looked very good and have some stars in pav, hill, mundy and barlow. But they play alot alike the dogs in that they have a few downhill skiers.
Dogs will implode. Will make the finals most likely but struggle to make top four.
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Legendary
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Defence wins premierships (or at least is fundamentally important).
In addition, a side needs hardness and experience playing finals.
St Kilda and Geelong are IMO still the two sides that will succeed at the business end of the season.
Collingwood are genuine, they have been close the past 3 years. We are a class above with Riewoldt in the side, but not much separates the two sides without him ... except hunger and pride. We win that battle. Still question marks over their defence against a dangerous forward line.
The Swans may be dangerous as they still have quite a few blokes with finals experience, but their bottom six are young and they lack the absolute class and discipline to succeed in September from what I've seen so far.
Fremantle are interesting. Again a young bottom six, but they are playing a good brand of football, although defensively you can still score fairly quickly against them. If they tighten up and show a bit more appetite for a scrap, they could actually be a genuine contender. Need to win in Melbourne over the next 15 weeks.
Dogs aren't playing their best footy IMO. If they can recapture that, they are a real threat, but I'm not sure that's possible with Barry Hall in the side.
Lions aren't quite there, ditto Carlton, ditto Port ... all good sides on their day, but not premiership teams.
In addition, a side needs hardness and experience playing finals.
St Kilda and Geelong are IMO still the two sides that will succeed at the business end of the season.
Collingwood are genuine, they have been close the past 3 years. We are a class above with Riewoldt in the side, but not much separates the two sides without him ... except hunger and pride. We win that battle. Still question marks over their defence against a dangerous forward line.
The Swans may be dangerous as they still have quite a few blokes with finals experience, but their bottom six are young and they lack the absolute class and discipline to succeed in September from what I've seen so far.
Fremantle are interesting. Again a young bottom six, but they are playing a good brand of football, although defensively you can still score fairly quickly against them. If they tighten up and show a bit more appetite for a scrap, they could actually be a genuine contender. Need to win in Melbourne over the next 15 weeks.
Dogs aren't playing their best footy IMO. If they can recapture that, they are a real threat, but I'm not sure that's possible with Barry Hall in the side.
Lions aren't quite there, ditto Carlton, ditto Port ... all good sides on their day, but not premiership teams.
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saintnick12
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Apparently Pies play Freo next week over there, Friday night.
And Brisbane play Geelong up there. Sydney play Geelong tomorrow. Those results should give us a bit more of an idea where some of these teams are at.
And Brisbane play Geelong up there. Sydney play Geelong tomorrow. Those results should give us a bit more of an idea where some of these teams are at.
"At the end of the day, a coach and a fitness adviser doesn't make a good football team, they're not the only ones who got us to two Grand Finals." Lenny Hayes. 27/9/2011.
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saintnick12
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Great summary. Agree with all of your assessments.Legendary wrote:Defence wins premierships (or at least is fundamentally important).
In addition, a side needs hardness and experience playing finals.
St Kilda and Geelong are IMO still the two sides that will succeed at the business end of the season.
Collingwood are genuine, they have been close the past 3 years. We are a class above with Riewoldt in the side, but not much separates the two sides without him ... except hunger and pride. We win that battle. Still question marks over their defence against a dangerous forward line.
The Swans may be dangerous as they still have quite a few blokes with finals experience, but their bottom six are young and they lack the absolute class and discipline to succeed in September from what I've seen so far.
Fremantle are interesting. Again a young bottom six, but they are playing a good brand of football, although defensively you can still score fairly quickly against them. If they tighten up and show a bit more appetite for a scrap, they could actually be a genuine contender. Need to win in Melbourne over the next 15 weeks.
Dogs aren't playing their best footy IMO. If they can recapture that, they are a real threat, but I'm not sure that's possible with Barry Hall in the side.
Lions aren't quite there, ditto Carlton, ditto Port ... all good sides on their day, but not premiership teams.
"At the end of the day, a coach and a fitness adviser doesn't make a good football team, they're not the only ones who got us to two Grand Finals." Lenny Hayes. 27/9/2011.
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jonesy
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Geelong and Collingwood are the clear cut two at the moment.
We are right there with them,but I want too see how we fare after the next 6 weeks or so. If we're in good shape and still lingering around the top 4 then we are with them. Just worried about how many games we are going to win before Roo comes back...not convinced at the moment,even though we are 5-1. We just need to keep winning,somehow !!!!
Dogs...need to find them form quickly. They dont want to drop too many more in the next 4-5 weeks.
Swans- Good side,but don't think they can win a premiership at this point.
Freo-I like watching them,but I don't think the youngsters will be able to keep that form up all year
Cats- They are never gone. They just have so many class acts in that side,they only have to click there fingers and bang,they blow sides apart. I reckon if they lose Chapman in the finals,they won't win it. He is the best player in the comp that bloke
Collingwood- Looking great,but they have looked great many times before. They are just one late night drink driving case away from a form slump
We are right there with them,but I want too see how we fare after the next 6 weeks or so. If we're in good shape and still lingering around the top 4 then we are with them. Just worried about how many games we are going to win before Roo comes back...not convinced at the moment,even though we are 5-1. We just need to keep winning,somehow !!!!
Dogs...need to find them form quickly. They dont want to drop too many more in the next 4-5 weeks.
Swans- Good side,but don't think they can win a premiership at this point.
Freo-I like watching them,but I don't think the youngsters will be able to keep that form up all year
Cats- They are never gone. They just have so many class acts in that side,they only have to click there fingers and bang,they blow sides apart. I reckon if they lose Chapman in the finals,they won't win it. He is the best player in the comp that bloke
Collingwood- Looking great,but they have looked great many times before. They are just one late night drink driving case away from a form slump
Bring back the Lockett era
Ooh I don't know about Chappy being the best player in the comp. He looks good and does all the flashy things, but he's more likely to take a snap from 50 out from the boundary falling over with three defenders on him than pass it to an open teammate twenty meters out. Too selfish that bloke, can think of three Cats players (at least) I'd prefer to have making their way to the Saints before him.
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chook23
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disagree.....have closed the gapSaintTom wrote:Agreed.degruch wrote:I don't think anyone can seriously rate Collingwood. They couldn't get within 3 goals of us without Roo despite being March premiers, they beat up the weak teams and never travel...shown nothing much IMO.
like us in 2008 losing to both GF sides in finals..............we improved the next year
Pies have done the same losing to GF sides in 2009
A real threat
saint4life
Totally agree. If you have only won 6 out of 7 and the other you were clearly better for the half but kicked poorly suggests you are going to struggle. As I have suggested before MM is in real trouble by round 10.degruch wrote:I don't think anyone can seriously rate Collingwood. They couldn't get within 3 goals of us without Roo despite being March premiers, they beat up the weak teams and never travel...shown nothing much IMO.
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saintsRrising
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The next couple of Rounds and the remainder of this one will add a lot of data with games such as Cat/Swans and Freo/Pies. Set is still a long way off.
However right here and now I would say:
Pies: Are a better unit than last year and quite a number of their younger players are coming along. Their ruck division is also better. Swans and Pies games in coming weeks will tell us a lot. In our game this year most of their talls were well down. I suspect in future games this will not be so.
However the pies have had pretty soft draw to date.
Their real season is about to begin and will havea big bearing on where the Pies will finish in 2010:
Freo away.
Geelong.
Brisbane away.
Dogs away.
Melbourne QB.
Sydney away
Cats: Probably not quite as good as they were. But still are very good with an exceptional midfield. Will be interesting to see how they go against Swans . Lions at the GABBA and Pies over the next 3 weeks.
Freo: Genuine improver anda big chance for the 4. But they have to last out the season.
Swans: Have recruited the best of any team last year IMO. A number of excellent picks up in positions they needed filled...and there first draft pick is ready to play too.
Dogs: A lot rests on their old forwards of Aka, Johnno and Hall. Signs are so far that they may no longer be able to play really good football against qualty teams. The Dogs are the team most likely to slide out of the 4.
Saints: Other teams have studdied our gameplan, and while still an afavnatge to us it is not the big advantage that it was.
The signs are that 2010 will be a lot more competitice than 2009 when there were two standout teams.
The gap has been narrowed and there are also more pursuing teams.
To play well when it counts will be crucial in 2010. Resting on lauerls will be suicide.
2010 will be a ery hard year to win a flag.
However right here and now I would say:
Pies: Are a better unit than last year and quite a number of their younger players are coming along. Their ruck division is also better. Swans and Pies games in coming weeks will tell us a lot. In our game this year most of their talls were well down. I suspect in future games this will not be so.
However the pies have had pretty soft draw to date.
Their real season is about to begin and will havea big bearing on where the Pies will finish in 2010:
Freo away.
Geelong.
Brisbane away.
Dogs away.
Melbourne QB.
Sydney away
Cats: Probably not quite as good as they were. But still are very good with an exceptional midfield. Will be interesting to see how they go against Swans . Lions at the GABBA and Pies over the next 3 weeks.
Freo: Genuine improver anda big chance for the 4. But they have to last out the season.
Swans: Have recruited the best of any team last year IMO. A number of excellent picks up in positions they needed filled...and there first draft pick is ready to play too.
Dogs: A lot rests on their old forwards of Aka, Johnno and Hall. Signs are so far that they may no longer be able to play really good football against qualty teams. The Dogs are the team most likely to slide out of the 4.
Saints: Other teams have studdied our gameplan, and while still an afavnatge to us it is not the big advantage that it was.
The signs are that 2010 will be a lot more competitice than 2009 when there were two standout teams.
The gap has been narrowed and there are also more pursuing teams.
To play well when it counts will be crucial in 2010. Resting on lauerls will be suicide.
2010 will be a ery hard year to win a flag.
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Finna
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Agreed. Dont rate the Pies at all. If the win at least 3 of their next 4 then I may re-think that.degruch wrote:I don't think anyone can seriously rate Collingwood. They couldn't get within 3 goals of us without Roo despite being March premiers, they beat up the weak teams and never travel...shown nothing much IMO.
I still think the cats are the biggest threat.
Oh When The Saints Go Marching In.......
Interestingly the top 3 teams on the ladder as it currently stands have all lost just the one game - and all to the same team. We're in ok shape I'd say.
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Stephen Theodore
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Lets see how the filth are travelling after 12 rounds. If they're still top 2 or 3 it'll kill me to admit they might be the real thing. At this stage not convinced.
I still think its Geelong and Saints with maybe Sydney.
Geelong are in cruise control, as were Saints until Roo went down. we're still winning and thats all that matters.
Cant see anyone else challenging. Lions werent quite there, but after last night losing Brennan and Drummond for most likely the year, they're in trouble.
Freo play a very watchable brand of footy IMO, but I'm not sure they can keep it going all year, especially if they cop a copuple of injuries to their senior players.
I like the way Sydney are playing, tough football, good defence and they are moving it quickly. Bradshaw and White are two good targets up front for them. IMO they're a danger team.
I still think its Geelong and Saints with maybe Sydney.
Geelong are in cruise control, as were Saints until Roo went down. we're still winning and thats all that matters.
Cant see anyone else challenging. Lions werent quite there, but after last night losing Brennan and Drummond for most likely the year, they're in trouble.
Freo play a very watchable brand of footy IMO, but I'm not sure they can keep it going all year, especially if they cop a copuple of injuries to their senior players.
I like the way Sydney are playing, tough football, good defence and they are moving it quickly. Bradshaw and White are two good targets up front for them. IMO they're a danger team.
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ace
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Melbourne would have beaten the Dogs if Adrian Anderson had not disguised the umpires as Melbourne players.jonesy wrote: Dogs...need to find them form quickly. They dont want to drop too many more in the next 4-5 weeks.
Incredible the number of times Melbourne hand balled to a player in the clear, only for him to get out of the way because he was an umpire.
AND Adrian Anderson is not apologising, we just made a mistake.
Yeah, any club makes a mistake that has that sort of impact, Anderson immediately slaps them with a quarter million dollar fine.
Will AFL Anderson pay a fine to Melbourne.
Me not think so.
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skeptic
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Saints and Geelong at this stage are the only 2 teams that IMO have the right to be called contenders
The next best team yet to prove themselves are the Dockers. They've got a very well balanced team with a few genuine stars and are playing good.
Collingwood and the Doggies for mine are traveling on last year's hype. Neither looks to have improved all that much to me.
IMO the Barry Hall move is a mistake as the Dogs under rocket have always tried to be about the team not individuals and Barry likes to flaunt, and bring the attention onto himself.
He's struggled the last 2 weeks and IMO when the team gets under a bit of pressure, he's going to make it worse. Form hasn't been brilliant either.
Pies... again have seen nothing to suggest improvement. Their loss to us was very telling considering we were the walking wounded. Struggled against Melb and have had a relatively easy draw.
Will be there abouts but don't have the cattle to really play with the big boys.
Bris and Port are the smokies... jury is still out on how much they've really improved... look good at times though
The next best team yet to prove themselves are the Dockers. They've got a very well balanced team with a few genuine stars and are playing good.
Collingwood and the Doggies for mine are traveling on last year's hype. Neither looks to have improved all that much to me.
IMO the Barry Hall move is a mistake as the Dogs under rocket have always tried to be about the team not individuals and Barry likes to flaunt, and bring the attention onto himself.
He's struggled the last 2 weeks and IMO when the team gets under a bit of pressure, he's going to make it worse. Form hasn't been brilliant either.
Pies... again have seen nothing to suggest improvement. Their loss to us was very telling considering we were the walking wounded. Struggled against Melb and have had a relatively easy draw.
Will be there abouts but don't have the cattle to really play with the big boys.
Bris and Port are the smokies... jury is still out on how much they've really improved... look good at times though
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OneEyedSainter77
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I think a lot of people here have short memories. The Pies have been playing a terrific brand of footy, if you look at their results in a nutshell, of course they haven't beaten anyone but if you look at their form this year, they have absolutely smashed every team put in front of the since losing to us. Remind anyone of anything?
It pissed me off that nobody gave us credit for our form last year because from round 2 onwards we were absolutely smashing teams. We won by 32 away, then 97, 83, 66, 28 (in a match we kicked inaccurately but still well in control) and 88 before being challenged a but more in the matches after that, although still winning.
I do agree that their real test is about to begin though and the next few weeks will test them. I'm really looking forward to seeing how they perform. Win five out of the next seven or so and I'll call that an improvement.
Sydney and Fremantle are also about to be tested which will be intersting also. After this week we've got a much easier draw in the next month and so far with a deceptively tough draw And we've performed well to be 5-1 so far (at worst 5-2 at the end of this week)
Apart from these three teams and of course Geelong and us, I don't think any other team will challenge although should the unthinkable happen and we lose on Monday bight, I might be caused to rethink my opinion on Carlton. T
It pissed me off that nobody gave us credit for our form last year because from round 2 onwards we were absolutely smashing teams. We won by 32 away, then 97, 83, 66, 28 (in a match we kicked inaccurately but still well in control) and 88 before being challenged a but more in the matches after that, although still winning.
I do agree that their real test is about to begin though and the next few weeks will test them. I'm really looking forward to seeing how they perform. Win five out of the next seven or so and I'll call that an improvement.
Sydney and Fremantle are also about to be tested which will be intersting also. After this week we've got a much easier draw in the next month and so far with a deceptively tough draw And we've performed well to be 5-1 so far (at worst 5-2 at the end of this week)
Apart from these three teams and of course Geelong and us, I don't think any other team will challenge although should the unthinkable happen and we lose on Monday bight, I might be caused to rethink my opinion on Carlton. T
Certainly not writing collingwood off or suggesting they're stuggling, just won't be convinced that they're the real deal until they win some games such as freo over there, Brisbane up there and Geelong in round 9, if they win at least 2 of those then I'll see them as a serious contender. They won easy games last year, just as they're doing this year, and I haven't seen anything yet to show that they've really improved.plugger66 wrote:Totally agree. If you have only won 6 out of 7 and the other you were clearly better for the half but kicked poorly suggests you are going to struggle. As I have suggested before MM is in real trouble by round 10.degruch wrote:I don't think anyone can seriously rate Collingwood. They couldn't get within 3 goals of us without Roo despite being March premiers, they beat up the weak teams and never travel...shown nothing much IMO.