Make Koschitzke Saints No.1 ruckman: Thomas

[SainterK]

We all knew this article was coming, Grant referred to it during Footy Classified this evening.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/m ... -tnat.html

Agree or not agree, I think he hit on something that is completely true

''I felt for him because I could see the weight of the club on his shoulders,'' Thomas said. ''They're trying to make Kosi into something which, in my opinion, he's not. You can't replace Nick Riewoldt so stop right there. Don't try to replace him.

Some sensible opinion right there, nobody can replace Roo, and the external hype and expectation around Kosi is that he should step up and fill his shoes. He cannot play Roo's role, nor should he be expected to, the structure should be adjusted to work to his strengths IMO.

I am not sure I agree with Kosi being a full time ruckman, but personally I don't mind the notion of Kosi being a rotating ruck/forward, I thought his game against the Swans (while obviously a little reckless) was better for his involvement in the ruck first up.

[saintsRrising]

Nobody can replace Roo...

But spare me the moaning about now putting Kosi in the forward line....he HAS been in the forward line for many many games now.

Kosi replace Roo.????...did GT miss last year where BOTH played as key forwards for the Saints?

Kosi is resuming his normal positon. Others will have to fill the void for Roo.

Sure let him have spells in the ruck, as he has already done this year. But No 1 ruck?

[Griggsy]

Assuming our forward line is the problem, how does this solve that exactly?

Maybe more of an option with Nick in the team. But to remove the only tall full time forward is crazy.

[SydneySainter]

Another load of hypocritical rubbish from GT. He said at the start of last season that Kosi could actually be more important to the Saints tilt at a flag than Roo, yet he thinks ruck-men are over-rated, but Kosi should become number one ruck in his opinion? Kosi has only had his entire career to prove himself in the ruck, to which he has failed to be anything more than an okay backup and at his age, he ain't going to get any better. It's amazing that during a Saints winning streak, GT hasn't got much to say. But when they have a loss, all of a sudden he is an expert on every thing that is best for the future of St Kilda. After everything we've seen, if Kosi's best position is number one ruck, that makes him a pretty rubbish number two pick Grant!

[plugger66]

Kosi cant play ruck and cant play forward to the standard we expect. I think it gets down to which position helps the side the most. MG and King arent great ruckmen now but we dont have anyone forward if Kosi doesnt play there either. Maybe split it half and half or even start Kosi there to get him into the game.

[BakesFan]

Didn't Kosi win his Rising Star Award at CHB?

[vergs]

I'm not sure whether I agree with GT or not on this one but as many have pointed out on here Kosi tends to be judged more on his stellar month of footy a few years back rather than what he has consistently been able to produce since. If he plays forward then he will get more of the ball supplied to him now that Roo is out, but he will also attract the best opposition defender and be double or tripled team like Roo would be if he was still playing. It's going to be tough for him. I think Goddard is a great option to throw forward but the problem is that he is just so valuable everywhere else that if he plays a more permanent role in attack then we are effectively robbing Peter to pay Paul. The absence of guys like Gram and Ray on the weekend limits the freedom that Goddard can have to push forward. I haven't seen much of Sandy this year so those in the know may be able to correct me, but from what I read on here it seems that many people seem to think that at this stage of his career McEvoy is more of a forward who can have a stint in the ruck, rather than a ruckman who can have a spell up forward. If Koschitzke can't find any form in a permanent goal kicking role, and Ross decides that he needs to spend more time on the ball, then maybe McEvoy can play the tall forward role. This would probably mean that King goes out, Gardiner keeps his role as ruck and Koschitzke gets to team with him as well as drifting forward occasionally. 3 months is a long time without Roo and i've got no doubt that we are going to have to experiment with a few different avenues to goal.

[Unforgiven]

GT living in the past...

Yeh Kosi played well in the ruck once, over what, a 4 game period?
Gardiner would tear Kosi a new one, he ain't good enough in the centre circle and doesn't have the nous either. He is just a dissapointing player at the moment, but I don't think the ruck is the answer.

If anything Kosi has blossomed as a forward in recent years, kicking 40+goals as well as not getting injured regularly, something that was never achieved at GT time.

[iwantmeseats]

Ruck = certain injury for kosi. That, you can quote me on.

[samoht]

Kosi masters the difficult things .. but struggles with the easy things.

He positions himself well for contested marks - usually outpositions his opponent body on body - which is the difficult part, but then carelessly snatches at the ball and misses easy grabs.

He's like someone who has the skills to set up a 100 piece domino play but carelessly keeps knocking over the 99th piece.

[bergholt]

If he plays forward then he will get more of the ball supplied to him now that Roo is out, but he will also attract the best opposition defender and be double or tripled team like Roo would be if he was still playing.

this didn't happen on saturday night - but he still didn't really get near it.

[saintsRrising]

GT living in the past...

.

Sure is. He also stated recently that Luke Ball was still an elite mid

[rodgerfox]

Some sensible opinion right there, nobody can replace Roo, and the external hype and expectation around Kosi is that he should step up and fill his shoes. He cannot play Roo's role, nor should he be expected to, the structure should be adjusted to work to his strengths IMO.

That's my view also SainterK. There's a decent discussion going on about it in Teflon's thread.

[rodgerfox]

GT living in the past...

Yeh Kosi played well in the ruck once, over what, a 4 game period?
Gardiner would tear Kosi a new one, he ain't good enough in the centre circle and doesn't have the nous either. He is just a dissapointing player at the moment, but I don't think the ruck is the answer.

If anything Kosi has blossomed as a forward in recent years, kicking 40+goals as well as not getting injured regularly, something that was never achieved at GT time.

Kosi has had some serious impact on games in the ruck outside of 'that' month.

He murdered Luke Darcy when he was the premier ruckman in the comp back in 03.
He turned the 04 final against Sydney on it's ear by going into the ruck.
And under Lyon he's also made impacts on games as a ruckman.

There's no doubt he won't be the best tap ruckman in the comp - but the stats I saw recently on our current supposed 'tap ruckman' is pretty ordinary anyway.

[Legendary]

I agree with you rogerfox ... I think playing Kosi in the ruck for periods is going to help us ...

Instead of trying to replace Roo with Kosi, we need to keep it unpredictable, and use our medium sized and smaller players to fill the void in terms of goals, at the same time as giving Kosi space to float around have the biggest impact he can -- play to his strengths.


I would also be bringing McEvoy in and getting SERIOUS game time into him ... the way they're going, we won't have either of King or Gardiner next year.

[SainterK]

I agree with you rogerfox ... I think playing Kosi in the ruck for periods is going to help us ...

Instead of trying to replace Roo with Kosi, we need to keep it unpredictable, and use our medium sized and smaller players to fill the void in terms of goals, at the same time as giving Kosi space to float around have the biggest impact he can -- play to his strengths.


I would also be bringing McEvoy in and getting SERIOUS game time into him ... the way they're going, we won't have either of King or Gardiner next year.

I agree with both of you, play him there in bursts...it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Oh, and yep on McEvoy.

[Moods]

Kosi cant play ruck and cant play forward to the standard we expect. I think it gets down to which position helps the side the most. MG and King arent great ruckmen now but we dont have anyone forward if Kosi doesnt play there either. Maybe split it half and half or even start Kosi there to get him into the game.

Well looks we're in a bit of trouble then. Both our ruckman aren't great, we've lost our CHF and our FF can't play to the standard we expect and can't fill the ruck void. Our FB is only just coping (depending on who you listen to) That leaves our CHB being the only position down the spine out of our key position players who can do anything. It's a miracle that we're second on the ladder

[clarky449]

try him in the ruck, but if we do that what do we do with our forward line, Ross lyon is gunna need to have a good hard think about what to do

[saintsRrising]

our FF can't play to the standard we expect

Expect....oe perhaps hope for.

He can however play to a reasonable standard.

[RooyForPresident]

Kosi cant play ruck and cant play forward to the standard we expect. I think it gets down to which position helps the side the most. MG and King arent great ruckmen now but we dont have anyone forward if Kosi doesnt play there either. Maybe split it half and half or even start Kosi there to get him into the game.

Your always right plugger

[Medici Bromberg]

support for Kosi from Wayne Carey...
http://www.backpagelead.com.au/podcasts ... y-off-kosi

[GrumpyOne]

Kosi = backman.

QED.

[bigcarl]

we could go with a zac/bj forward combination (or factor in stanley) i guess with kosi in the ruck drifting forward. i like kosi and rate him, but he's looked completely out of sorts in his role every time i've seen him this season.

you'd miss a contested marking target, though, which milne/schneider etc tend to feed off.

[spert]

Usually if a player is totally out of form, he gets dropped. Kosi needs a spell at Sandy so he can get his confidence back and get that powerful marking ability working again. I'm sure RL is probably giving him every chance this year, but his patience must be wearing thin.

[Milan Faletic]

Like Rodger and plugger and I'm sure others said, I don't think he should be number 1 ruckman but certainly he can have a few bursts in the ruck to get him in to the game. He seems to be the sort of player who needs to get his hands on the ball early.

The problem when he plays long bursts in the ruck is that he spends all of his tickets early and doesn't seem to know how to pace himself. He was in the middle of the ground when Zac made that great spoil in the GF and was standing flat footed when Gary Ablett took the crumb and pumped it forward. Now don't jump on me for saying that because it was a split second decision and Ablett is a star but after not watching the GF since being there, that is one of the permanent images in my mind.

My biggest criticism of his game on Saturday night was that he almost did a carbon copy of the bump that got him suspended for 3 weeks. That is just a lack of judgement.

When he dropped that mark close to goal, my first thought was "bloody Kosi," but then where were our crumbers? Was anyone at the fall of the ball? If we had a crumber, maybe Carr wouldn't have had the chance to deliberately rush that point.

They certainly need to do something with him, or maybe it is up to him to do something after 9 years at the club.

Maybe it's time for him to show initiative and take the game by the scruff of the neck.