Is everything okay with NDS & Bakes???

[Dr Spaceman]

Looking at the team we’ve selected for Round 1, I note that probably only Nick & Bakes have escaped intense discussion on this site over the Pre Season.

Just don’t want them to feel left out.

[saintsRrising]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

[IluvHarvey]

did they break up??

[saintbrat]

has nds re - signed?

Bakes is being given Veterans Consideration- give it half a season before THEY say he's too old and too slow
Just after he gets awarded his Life membership at the Hall of fame.

[loris]

has nds re - signed?

Bakes is being given Veterans Consideration- give it half a season before we say he's too old and too slow
Just after he gets awarded his Life membership at the Hall of fame.

Aaaaah you've been on this board for too long Bratty when you can confidently predict posts into the future............ i'm sure you are spot on though

[vacuous space]

has nds re - signed?

I hope he does soon. Every day that passes fills me with fear we'll hear Dal singing this song one day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHDW0f6f-TI

I'll stop spamming that when it ceases to be funny.

[Saint Bev]

has nds re - signed?

I hope he does soon. Every day that passes fills me with fear we'll hear Dal singing this song one day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHDW0f6f-TI

I'll stop spamming that when it ceases to be funny.

Shame on you, he loves St Kilda. He is no Luke Ball.

[rodgerfox]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

[plugger66]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

An average player plays 40 games. A good player doesnt come in the top 5 in the clubs best and fairest 3 out of 5 years. He is better than average but if you want to talk about your posts we can get very average or even poor.

[SainterK]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

Must point out that you are wrong about the tackles, the rest is your opinion.

[rodgerfox]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

Must point out that you are wrong about the tackles, the rest is your opinion.

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...

2004 - 16th in the comp
2005 - 26th
2006 - 13th
2007 - 42nd
2008 - 48th
2009 - 32nd


He's pretty clearly gone backwards in this area - and to be lower on the tackles list as a mature 26yo than as a skinny 21yo kid doesn't really hit home that he's now suddenly magically become a defensive powerhouse.

[plugger66]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

Must point out that you are wrong about the tackles, the rest is your opinion.

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...

2004 - 16th in the comp
2005 - 26th
2006 - 13th
2007 - 42nd
2008 - 48th
2009 - 32nd


He's pretty clearly gone backwards in this area - and to be lower on the tackles list as a mature 26yo than as a skinny 21yo kid doesn't really hit home that he's now suddenly magically become a defensive powerhouse.

You really are amazing and that is not said in a positive way.

[Batnoe]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

Must point out that you are wrong about the tackles, the rest is your opinion.

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...

2004 - 16th in the comp
2005 - 26th
2006 - 13th
2007 - 42nd
2008 - 48th
2009 - 32nd


He's pretty clearly gone backwards in this area - and to be lower on the tackles list as a mature 26yo than as a skinny 21yo kid doesn't really hit home that he's now suddenly magically become a defensive powerhouse.

You really are amazing and that is not said in a positive way.

How about you look at his total numbers, not what position he finished in the teackle count!

Also, he was number 1 in hard ball gets for the saints last year i read. So he is doing more of the harder stuff....

[rodgerfox]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

Must point out that you are wrong about the tackles, the rest is your opinion.

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...

2004 - 16th in the comp
2005 - 26th
2006 - 13th
2007 - 42nd
2008 - 48th
2009 - 32nd


He's pretty clearly gone backwards in this area - and to be lower on the tackles list as a mature 26yo than as a skinny 21yo kid doesn't really hit home that he's now suddenly magically become a defensive powerhouse.

You really are amazing and that is not said in a positive way.

How about you look at his total numbers, not what position he finished in the teackle count!

Also, he was number 1 in hard ball gets for the saints last year i read. So he is doing more of the harder stuff....

20 years ago, getting 30 touches was unbelievable.

Nowadays a full back can get 30 touches.


The totals aren't that relevant in most stats these days.

[Batnoe]

Its been 6 years

They're still relevant enough

All i asked was is he getting the same tackles or is he getting less??


alright 2009- tackels 4 per game
2008 3.1 per game
2007- 3.7
2006- 4.2
2005- 3.3
2004- 2.9

Fairly consistant, having 4 per game last year is a lot more he has had the previous 2 seasons and not far off his best in 2006

Still gets a lot of the ball, but also gets hard ball gets, something he wasnt renound for


So as you said he went well in 2004, he got 16 in the comp, he had 2.9 per game.

Just shows you has he has changed the way he plays.. has picked up his tackle count, but so has everyone else


I think you have the wrong avatar, i think you should change that simpsons character to a sesame street character because you really are a muppet

[plugger66]

Both will have good years.

Bakes is fully fit again.

Dal is post-dropping now a "complete" player.

I actually think he's far less effective than he's ever been.

He still struggles with a tag, doesn't lay as many tackles as he used to, as his output since his 3rd in the Brownlow year I think is well down.

He's learnt to play 'non exciting footy' well - I'll give him that. But I certainly don't see him as a better player at all.

Free agency might save a guy like him from being remembered as an average/good player.

Must point out that you are wrong about the tackles, the rest is your opinion.

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...

2004 - 16th in the comp
2005 - 26th
2006 - 13th
2007 - 42nd
2008 - 48th
2009 - 32nd


He's pretty clearly gone backwards in this area - and to be lower on the tackles list as a mature 26yo than as a skinny 21yo kid doesn't really hit home that he's now suddenly magically become a defensive powerhouse.

You really are amazing and that is not said in a positive way.

How about you look at his total numbers, not what position he finished in the teackle count!

Also, he was number 1 in hard ball gets for the saints last year i read. So he is doing more of the harder stuff....

20 years ago, getting 30 touches was unbelievable.

Nowadays a full back can get 30 touches.


The totals aren't that relevant in most stats these days.

You are consistant. Again that is not a good thing.

[SainterK]

So we have established that he is guilty of playing non exciting footy, for shame Dal, you should work on being flashy rather than effective.

[saintsRrising]

I will give you a tip RF..go to a game and watch how Dal now runs when the opposition have the ball.

All too often in the past he would just amble along. Now he puts a lot more pressure on.

Also watch how if his opponent goes forward Dal is closer and will spoil and contest better if the ball is kicked to his opponent.

As I stated IMO Dal is now a much more complete player.

[saintsRrising]

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...
.

Now that is funny. RF caught with his pants down once again...and rather than just saying he made an honest mistake and was wrong because he used the wrong set of stats he has to clutch at straws instead.

[rogerwa]

baker is one player that cant be critisized...gives 100% at every contest

suppose ya could chuck in hayes ,jones,goddard (who's added a touch of mongel & agro to his game)

[vacuous space]

I think Dal has improved as he's got older just like a lot of players do. I wouldn't link any improvement to his dropping. Dal averaged 8+ contested possessions in 05, 06, 07 and 09. His tackles have fluctuated between 75 and 96 since 2004 when he had 82. His disposal total exploded at the same time the rest of his team.

As for the tags, Dal averaged more disposals against the top teams last year than the bottom ones. Dal may have only had 17 touches in the GF, but he beat Ling. Dal was rarely tagged out of a game last year. He got more touches against good teams than bad ones. The Dogs and Pies couldn't stop him.

It's not like Lenny has done much better against tags. Lenny dropped off considerably when Bartel tightened up on him in the GF. Lenny has always struggled against Sydney who are the one team that always tag him. On the defensive side, Lenny's opponents regularly got a lot of ball. Nobody here seems to care when it's Lenny's opponent. Dal's tackle count isn't out of line with the other guys who consitently draw a tag.

I think he's held to a different standard and completely underrated. Could he work harder defensively? Probably, but so could most mids. I think opposition coaches rate him right up there with Lenny. Some people here seem to think Clint Jones is more valuable.

[saintsRrising]

Dal's offensive game has always been very good.

Coaches rate him because they tag him.

However where I see Dal has imost mproved is what he does when the opposition has the ball...and in that he is no lone ranger at the Saints (and is why the Saints became so good).

That is why I see him as a more complete player.

[Saints43]

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...
.

Now that is funny. RF caught with his pants down once again...and rather than just saying he made an honest mistake and was wrong because he used the wrong set of stats he has to clutch at straws instead.

What RF has written is exactly correct.

If you want to benchmark NDS against NDS's history that's up to you but it's pointless. NDS needs to be benchmarked against other players in the competition at that point in time.

As do all players.

[SainterK]

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...
.

Now that is funny. RF caught with his pants down once again...and rather than just saying he made an honest mistake and was wrong because he used the wrong set of stats he has to clutch at straws instead.

What RF has written is exactly correct.

If you want to benchmark NDS against NDS's history that's up to you. NDS needs to be benchmarked against other players in the competition at that point in time.

As do all players.

Sure, I undersand the need to benchmark against the other players in the comp, but tackling is just one aspect of his game.

Perhaps the discussion should be is Dal more of a complete player now in comparison to other players in the comp, not just on his tackles laid.

[Saints43]

Ok, let me correct that...

Comparably, he lays less tackles...
.

Now that is funny. RF caught with his pants down once again...and rather than just saying he made an honest mistake and was wrong because he used the wrong set of stats he has to clutch at straws instead.

What RF has written is exactly correct.

If you want to benchmark NDS against NDS's history that's up to you. NDS needs to be benchmarked against other players in the competition at that point in time.

As do all players.

Sure, I undersand the need to benchmark against the other players in the comp, but tackling is just one aspect of his game.

Perhaps the discussion should be is Dal more of a complete player now in comparison to other players in the comp, not just on his tackles laid.

All I posted about was whether RF had been 'caught with his pants down once again' or not.

People can answer for themselves if they walk out of more St Kilda games thinking Dal tore it apart or not.