Make or Break - Jason Gram

[skeptic]

I think 2010 shapes as a huge year for Jason and I think if he's not careful and 100% dedicated, he may well find himself on the outer quickly.

Gram's performance in the GF epitomised everything i dislike about him. He was fast, damaging, disposal was clean, was accountable, provided run, and won 1 on 1 contests.

Where the hell has that been all season?

In regards to performance... I think this season was by far Jason's worst since his first year at the club.

He was at times unaccountable to the point that he was a liability

His disposal was consistently poor to the point that it was comparable to Clint Jones' the year b4 and while he has always been more of a reciever than an inside player, he simply avoided contests for a large portion of the season.

On top of it all, he was dropped midseason because he wasn't taking his preparation seriously enough.

If it wasn't for the fact that he kicked a few bags of 2, and a few crucial goals, his performance would have been much more heavily criticised than has been.

Is he fair dinkum????

Jason is pbly not good enough to ever be one of the premium midfielders of the league but he sure as hell is good enough to be an A-Grader. Some1 who plays 14-18 good to great games a year. Good enough to be the 6-8th player picked on the list.

An open plea.

Jason, give it your best. Your performance in the GF is the type of footy you should be producing regularly.
You're not good enough to coast. You don't want to finish your career as an okay player for the saints. If you keep going at the rate you're going, your fall from grace is going to be sudden and swift... and remember there are plenty of youngsters that want your spot badly.

Be the player that we know you can be

you've got the weapons, you've got the skills, you've got the heart... you're a bloody talented player. Get you're head right and step it up... your time is now

[plugger66]

Some people are just inconsistant. Surely Kosi has as much to prove as Grammy as has a few others. That is what you get with these players and that is why they are champs. Would you rather he be like Dempster every week. you know what you get with him but it isnt much.

[skeptic]

absolutely kosi does but with Kosi it's not about effort. He was injured for a long long time and looks to mr like he's slowly putting it together... his first part of the season was actually quite good until he injured his hand... i wonder if that bothered him more than was let on

I really think Jason has taken his foot off the pedal. His work rate and effort in the GF is something we didn't see as much during the season and i put that on him.

[Spinner]

I think 2010 shapes as a huge year for Jason and I think if he's not careful and 100% dedicated, he may well find himself on the outer quickly.

Gram's performance in the GF epitomised everything i dislike about him. He was fast, damaging, disposal was clean, was accountable, provided run, and won 1 on 1 contests.

Where the hell has that been all season?

In regards to performance... I think this season was by far Jason's worst since his first year at the club.

He was at times unaccountable to the point that he was a liability

His disposal was consistently poor to the point that it was comparable to Clint Jones' the year b4 and while he has always been more of a reciever than an inside player, he simply avoided contests for a large portion of the season.

On top of it all, he was dropped midseason because he wasn't taking his preparation seriously enough.

If it wasn't for the fact that he kicked a few bags of 2, and a few crucial goals, his performance would have been much more heavily criticised than has been.

Is he fair dinkum????

Jason is pbly not good enough to ever be one of the premium midfielders of the league but he sure as hell is good enough to be an A-Grader. Some1 who plays 14-18 good to great games a year. Good enough to be the 6-8th player picked on the list.

An open plea.

Jason, give it your best. Your performance in the GF is the type of footy you should be producing regularly.
You're not good enough to coast. You don't want to finish your career as an okay player for the saints. If you keep going at the rate you're going, your fall from grace is going to be sudden and swift... and remember there are plenty of youngsters that want your spot badly.

Be the player that we know you can be

you've got the weapons, you've got the skills, you've got the heart... you're a bloody talented player. Get you're head right and step it up... your time is now

Great post!

Agree, although i think Gram does have the ability to become an A-grade midfielder....Juts needs to work on his attack on the ball and intensity.

His superb games are superb - Needs to do it more than twice a year.

[Milton66]

The Gf should give Gram the confidence to become an elite mid in the competition.

There are others way ahead of him who are make-or-brak in 2010.

IMO

[Winmarvellous]

That is what you get with these players and that is why they are champs

I don't really rate either as a champion. To be a champion you have to have won SOMETHING. Neither is a premiership player and they're nowhere close to winning a B&F. IMHO Kosi is just as bad, and the 2 of them have been like this for some time now. It'd be nice to see another power forward to push Kosi for his spot in the manner we have others of Grams ilk. He seems to go missing when we need him most (like most of our forward line unfortunately)

[3rd generation saint]

Actually what Kosi needs, and Roo is another marking forward to take the pressure off them a bit.
If Kosi can produce another 50 odd goal season, Roo 60+ with a third contributing 30+ plus Milne and Schneider pitching in, premiership.

[Bardon Saint]

I've always been a quiet (until now) critic of Jason Gram. Not for his lack of defensive pressure as noted by others but his poor disposal. I argued this with a saints supporter whilst watching a streamed game. His point was that he has a heap of inside fifties. Mine is that he often blazes away using a 'strength' of his which is a long kick. There is no point if the long kick is to no one or the opposition, regardless if it is a strength. I think that he has been fortunate enough that Roo and Kosi are in the fwd 50 as they have a great set of hands and make the bomb look better than it actually is. It is ok for under 15s but not the AFL. While his kicks achieve distance, they often lack penetration and accuracy. I have seen him kick with penetration and accuracy so why not consistently?? I believe that it is a mental choice to say whether you will bomb it long (in a blaze-away fashion) or kick it to a player/ROO one on one. Maybe he lacks the confidence to settle and assess options?? Who knows? One thing is for sure, he has an important role in our team that can be finely tuned a little more to work on his weaknesses.

[Eastern]

I've always been a quiet (until now) critic of Jason Gram. Not for his lack of defensive pressure as noted by others but his poor disposal. I argued this with a saints supporter whilst watching a streamed game. His point was that he has a heap of inside fifties. Mine is that he often blazes away using a 'strength' of his which is a long kick. There is no point if the long kick is to no one or the opposition, regardless if it is a strength. I think that he has been fortunate enough that Roo and Kosi are in the fwd 50 as they have a great set of hands and make the bomb look better than it actually is. It is ok for under 15s but not the AFL. While his kicks achieve distance, they often lack penetration and accuracy. I have seen him kick with penetration and accuracy so why not consistently?? I believe that it is a mental choice to say whether you will bomb it long (in a blaze-away fashion) or kick it to a player/ROO one on one. Maybe he lacks the confidence to settle and assess options?? Who knows? One thing is for sure, he has an important role in our team that can be finely tuned a little more to work on his weaknesses.

I tend to agree with you, Bardon Saint. Grammy's strength is also his weakness. We all know that he can kick the ball a long way, but he appears to be trying to kick the leather off the thing far too often. Some of the blame could also rest with those around him who should be telling/helping him to direct the ball better.

Back to the OP;

Grammy & Kosi have already been mentioned. If we add Raph Clarke, Zac Dawson, Jaryn Geary, Jack Steven, Ben McEvoy, Andrew McQualter, Tom Lynch, Rob Eddy, Nick Heyne and a couple of others to that list we have 11-13 players who can potentially go better in 2010. If we can get 6-8 of these to take giant strides forward and the rest to take steps forward we will be right up there in 2010.

I don't see many, if any of our players on the age related decline in 2010 !!

[meher baba]

Gee you folks are a bit harsh.

Gram was a reject player from the Lions picked up by us with a 3rd (or 4th?) round pick, who then struggled with a chronic injury. He then fought his way to become a regular first team pick in one of the AFL's top teams for 4 successive seasons and, to top it all off, was close to BOG in a losing GF team.

Not too much left for this bloke to prove IMO.

Yes, he could improve his disposal and generally play better, but he'll do.

2010 is going to be a "make or break" year for the likes of Armitage, Eddy, Geary, Miles and Peake. Not Gram. As the Mafia put it, he's already been "made".

[skeptic]

ur point of view surprises me MB,

1 question, do you think Jason works hard enough?

[Spinner]

Gee you folks are a bit harsh.

Gram was a reject player from the Lions picked up by us with a 3rd (or 4th?) round pick, who then struggled with a chronic injury. He then fought his way to become a regular first team pick in one of the AFL's top teams for 4 successive seasons and, to top it all off, was close to BOG in a losing GF team.

Not too much left for this bloke to prove IMO.

Yes, he could improve his disposal and generally play better, but he'll do.

2010 is going to be a "make or break" year for the likes of Armitage, Eddy, Geary, Miles and Peake. Not Gram. As the Mafia put it, he's already been "made".

Gram was picked up with pick 19 in the 'super draft' - Which personally I dont think was too super considering majority of the top 15 are either delisted or have changed clubs.

And we gave up pick 23 for a player that only had played 2 games in 2 seasons.

Brisbane didnt think he was a reject at all. Not even in the slightest.

He didnt just come from nowhere.

[SydneySainter]

This year, I certainly did miss his long bomb goals from 50 meters. That used to be his bread and butter. This year, his disposal was very dicey, which was disappointing considering how many inside 50s he had.

I don't know if I'd say next year is make-or-break for him. Because I think in the last three seasons he has certainly proved himself.

I think Raph Clarke fits into the make-or-break category. We all know he is capable of some very special things, but he continues to have too many of those cringe-worthy 'Oh my God' moments. His time to turn that 2008 finals form into his every day form is now or never.

[perfectionist]

Yeah, hard to believe he doesn't play well enough to be BOG every week!

With the possible exception of Nick, he is the most difficult player for teams to match up (see PF and GF).

His improvement since being at the Saints has been exceptional.

And why isn't he a perfect player? Well, he's making progress towards that goal, and that's all I expect to see from our players.

[meher baba]

ur point of view surprises me MB,

1 question, do you think Jason works hard enough?

Not hard enough to be Lenny Hayes or Clinton Jones. But, then again, they don't have his ability to run and carry and break lines

[Milton66]

What exactly s "working hard enough"?

On the track? On the ground?

Either way, he still gets a game and was dropped accordingly.

There's also players own limitations to consider.

And you cannot use other players as a measuring stick IMO.

Does Lenny work hard enough at kicking more goals?

I find this thread rather stoopid to be honest.

Make or break??? Where did that come from?

[skeptic]

What exactly s "working hard enough"?

On the track? On the ground?

Either way, he still gets a game and was dropped accordingly.

There's also players own limitations to consider.

And you cannot use other players as a measuring stick IMO.

Does Lenny work hard enough at kicking more goals?

I find this thread rather stoopid to be honest.

Make or break??? Where did that come from?

I did mean work hard enough on the track

Make or break... IMO if he plays like this next year, i think he'll find himself on the outer very quickly with an uphill battle to get back into the team

I look at it going one of 2 ways
Jason works his butt off and becomes one of the best in our team
Jason does the bare minimum and his performance will deteriorate rapidly to the point where he won't be able to stay in the team and there'll be better options going forward

I didn't really use any players as a measuring stick

I agree the comparison with Kosi is a poor one. Kosi is a player who works his butt off, gives 100% all the time and his form fluctuates.

Gram plays better footy the harder he works. He wanted that GF and gave it everything he had. Players like Roo, Hayes, BJ even Jones, Blake, Mini, Geary, Eddy etc do that every week and on the training track too.

[Milton66]

What exactly s "working hard enough"?

On the track? On the ground?

Either way, he still gets a game and was dropped accordingly.

There's also players own limitations to consider.

And you cannot use other players as a measuring stick IMO.

Does Lenny work hard enough at kicking more goals?

I find this thread rather stoopid to be honest.

Make or break??? Where did that come from?

I did mean work hard enough on the track

Make or break... IMO if he plays like this next year, i think he'll find himself on the outer very quickly with an uphill battle to get back into the team

I look at it going one of 2 ways
Jason works his butt off and becomes one of the best in our team
Jason does the bare minimum and his performance will deteriorate rapidly to the point where he won't be able to stay in the team and there'll be better options going forward

I didn't really use any players as a measuring stick

I agree the comparison with Kosi is a poor one. Kosi is a player who works his butt off, gives 100% all the time and his form fluctuates.

Gram plays better footy the harder he works. He wanted that GF and gave it everything he had. Players like Roo, Hayes, BJ even Jones, Blake, Mini, Geary, Eddy etc do that every week and on the training track too.

I would have thought that JG is an integral part of our structure, and the only way I see him getting dropped is if he slackens off.

Same goes for any other player.

Make or break doesn't come in to the equeation. I don't think he was in bad form. In fact he did well after being dropped IMO.

Then again, we can't have 22 superstars, so maybe we place too much expectations on certain players.

Cheers.

[plugger66]

What exactly s "working hard enough"?

On the track? On the ground?

Either way, he still gets a game and was dropped accordingly.

There's also players own limitations to consider.

And you cannot use other players as a measuring stick IMO.

Does Lenny work hard enough at kicking more goals?

I find this thread rather stoopid to be honest.

Make or break??? Where did that come from?

I did mean work hard enough on the track

Make or break... IMO if he plays like this next year, i think he'll find himself on the outer very quickly with an uphill battle to get back into the team

I look at it going one of 2 ways
Jason works his butt off and becomes one of the best in our team
Jason does the bare minimum and his performance will deteriorate rapidly to the point where he won't be able to stay in the team and there'll be better options going forward

I didn't really use any players as a measuring stick

I agree the comparison with Kosi is a poor one. Kosi is a player who works his butt off, gives 100% all the time and his form fluctuates.

Gram plays better footy the harder he works. He wanted that GF and gave it everything he had. Players like Roo, Hayes, BJ even Jones, Blake, Mini, Geary, Eddy etc do that every week and on the training track too.

If he plays like this he will be on the outer. What is this? Who says Grammy doesnt work hard on the track. In this day and age it is individual training so he would do what is required by the fitness staff. And who says Kosi works harder during a game. he may seem more disappointed when he doesnt get it but I dont think he works any harder than Grammy. I dont know what you expect from him but it is far from a make or break season.

[Bernard Shakey]

What exactly s "working hard enough"?

On the track? On the ground?

Either way, he still gets a game and was dropped accordingly.

There's also players own limitations to consider.

And you cannot use other players as a measuring stick IMO.

Does Lenny work hard enough at kicking more goals?

I find this thread rather stoopid to be honest.

Make or break??? Where did that come from?

I did mean work hard enough on the track

Make or break... IMO if he plays like this next year, i think he'll find himself on the outer very quickly with an uphill battle to get back into the team

I look at it going one of 2 ways
Jason works his butt off and becomes one of the best in our team
Jason does the bare minimum and his performance will deteriorate rapidly to the point where he won't be able to stay in the team and there'll be better options going forward

I didn't really use any players as a measuring stick

I agree the comparison with Kosi is a poor one. Kosi is a player who works his butt off, gives 100% all the time and his form fluctuates.

Gram plays better footy the harder he works. He wanted that GF and gave it everything he had. Players like Roo, Hayes, BJ even Jones, Blake, Mini, Geary, Eddy etc do that every week and on the training track too.

If he plays like this he will be on the outer. What is this? Who says Grammy doesnt work hard on the track. In this day and age it is individual training so he would do what is required by the fitness staff. And who says Kosi works harder during a game. he may seem more disappointed when he doesnt get it but I dont think he works any harder than Grammy. I dont know what you expect from him but it is far from a make or break season.

Gram does SFA on the track, as does Kosi.

Gram seems to be given a light regime during the week, which indicates he has fitness recovery problems that the fitness staff are dealing with very well.

Kosi just does SFA. He is not interested in training. Sometimes he appears not interested in playing at all.

[skeptic]

ok lets try a different tact.

why do you think his grandfinal performance was so much better than any other game he played this season?

[matrix]

good question
seeing as the weather didnt really suit a run carry and bounce type player.
ive only seen the game once tho

although its been tempting to watch it recently.

[aussiejones]

"Kosi just does SFA. He is not interested in training. Sometimes he appears not interested in playing at all."

He sure is a puzzle. We all had high hopes for Kosi . He showed great form at times then at other times seems disinterested to me . Contrast Roo who is switched on all the time expecting and getting the best out of himself.

[ace]

ok lets try a different tact.

why do you think his grandfinal performance was so much better than any other game he played this season?

Because Geelong concentrated on their own performance and not on Gram's performance.
Opposition coaches limit the number of defensive roles they assign to their team.
Opposition coaches try to stiffle Gram's run and long kick but not Geelong in the GF.
No-one was assigned a defensive role on Gram.

[Con Gorozidis]

Gee you folks are a bit harsh.

Gram was a reject player from the Lions picked up by us with a 3rd (or 4th?) round pick, who then struggled with a chronic injury. He then fought his way to become a regular first team pick in one of the AFL's top teams for 4 successive seasons and, to top it all off, was close to BOG in a losing GF team.

Not too much left for this bloke to prove IMO.

Yes, he could improve his disposal and generally play better, but he'll do.

2010 is going to be a "make or break" year for the likes of Armitage, Eddy, Geary, Miles and Peake. Not Gram. As the Mafia put it, he's already been "made".

i agree. heaps of guys in murkier grey areas than grammy. the kid was awesome in the gf - darn near norm smith and we got home for nothing.
hes inconsistent but the team was winning. cant really call him for that.

guys on make or break fringe are:

kosi (is he trade bait? maybe)
armo
geary
gwilty
eddy
dempster
miles

regarding kosi - 196cm blokes that can play dont grow on trees are are not easily replaced.